mkgal1

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From his other video, it appears to me that N.T. Wright is post trib in his rapture/resurrection timing view
N.T. Wright is thr former Anglican bishop. He's amillennial and rejects the futurist's description of a rapture.

Farewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage

QUOTE from above link:
Jesus himself, as I have argued in various books, never predicted such an event[2]. The gospel passages about “the Son of Man coming on the clouds” (Mark 13:26, 14:62, for example) are about Jesus’ vindication, his “coming” to heaven from earth. The parables about a returning king or master (for example, Luke 19:11-27) were originally about God returning to Jerusalem, not about Jesus returning to earth. This, Jesus seemed to believe, was an event within space-time history, not one that would end it forever.​
 
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Timtofly

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N.T. Wright is thr former Anglican bishop. He's amillennial and rejects the futurist's description of a rapture.

Farewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage

QUOTE from above link:
Jesus himself, as I have argued in various books, never predicted such an event[2]. The gospel passages about “the Son of Man coming on the clouds” (Mark 13:26, 14:62, for example) are about Jesus’ vindication, his “coming” to heaven from earth. The parables about a returning king or master (for example, Luke 19:11-27) were originally about God returning to Jerusalem, not about Jesus returning to earth. This, Jesus seemed to believe, was an event within space-time history, not one that would end it forever.​
So now, former Anglican Wright claims Jesus is not even God?
 
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Douggg

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N.T. Wright is thr former Anglican bishop. He's amillennial and rejects the futurist's description of a rapture.

Farewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage

QUOTE from above link:
Jesus himself, as I have argued in various books, never predicted such an event[2]. The gospel passages about “the Son of Man coming on the clouds” (Mark 13:26, 14:62, for example) are about Jesus’ vindication, his “coming” to heaven from earth. The parables about a returning king or master (for example, Luke 19:11-27) were originally about God returning to Jerusalem, not about Jesus returning to earth. This, Jesus seemed to believe, was an event within space-time history, not one that would end it forever.​
Do you know how N.T. Wright interprets...

1. Zechariah 14 - the mount of Olives splitting in half.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


2. The angels said to the disciples of Jesus returning to earth from the place he left (the Mt. of Olives) in Acts 1.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
 
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mkgal1

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Do you know how N.T. Wright interprets.......
If you're willing to spend about an hour - this video will probably inform you of most of his pertinent beliefs related to the New Testament/New Covenant and what that meant - how Jesus fulfilled Messianic hopes and prophecies.


If you'd like to ask him yourself and you use Facebook....there's a FB discussion group that questions are then taken to Wright to answer on the podcast, "Ask N.T. Wright Anything". Here's the link to the FB discussion group (if you're interested):
Facebook Groups
 
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Douggg

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If you're willing to spend about an hour - this video will probably inform you of most of his pertinent beliefs related to the New Testament/New Covenant and what that meant - how Jesus fulfilled Messianic hopes and prophecies.


If you'd like to ask him yourself and you use Facebook....there's a FB discussion group that questions are then taken to Wright to answer on the podcast, "Ask N.T. Wright Anything". Here's the link to the FB discussion group (if you're interested):
Facebook Groups
Without my going through a lengthy video, do you know if N.T. Wright believes the Mt. of Olives will be split in half someday?
 
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mkgal1

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It was his claim that the parables were originally about God, not Jesus. Jesus is God. Do you not accept what is put into your post?
In which video and at what spot in the video....and what words did he use that you're interpreting that way?
 
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mkgal1

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Without my going through a lengthy video, do you know if N.T. Wright believes the Mt. of Olives will be split in half someday?
That's a literal translation of a metaphorical symbolic phrase....so, no, Wright doesn't teach literalism/futurism.
 
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Douggg

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That's a literal translation of a metaphorical symbolic phrase....so, no, Wright doesn't teach literalism/futurism.
Do you actually know what Tom Wright says about the Mt. of Olives being split in half some day? I am not asking what he teaches over all, but that specific passage.

It's okay for you to say - I don't know.
 
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mkgal1

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Do you actually know what Tom Wright says about the Mt. of Olives being split in half some day? I am not asking what he teaches over all, but that specific passage.

It's okay for you to say - I don't know.
It's apocalyptic symbolism (and I agree).

Here's an article about the overall topic.

QUOTE from article:
>>>>Does this mean abandoning belief in the “second coming”? Certainly not. It means taking seriously the whole biblical picture, instead of highlighting, and misinterpreting, one part of it. The problem has been, in [43] the last two centuries in particular, that certain texts have been read from within the worldview of dualistic apocalypticism, and have thus produced a less than fully biblical picture, with Jesus flying around like a spaceman and the physical world being destroyed. And if we really suppose – as, alas, many seem to – that this will be the meaning of the Millennium, we will miss the point entirely. Rather, the Bible points to God’s new world, where heaven and earth are fully integrated at last, and whose central feature is the personal, loving and healing presence of Jesus himself, the living embodiment of the one true God as well as the prototype of full, liberated humanity. When we talk about Jesus’ “coming”, the reality to which we point is his personal presence within God’s new creation. - Apocalypse Now? - NTWrightPage
 
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mkgal1

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It was his claim that the parables were originally about God, not Jesus.
Being the former Anglican bishop - a Trinitarian denomination.....I doubt Wright meant what you interpreted.

There was more to the complete thought and point he was making.

Instead....Wright said:

>>>>The parables about a returning king or master (for example, Luke 19:11-27)
were originally about God returning to Jerusalem, not about Jesus returning to earth<<<
Farewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage
 
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parousia70

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I am not asking what he teaches over all, but that specific passage.
It's apocalyptic symbolism (and I agree).

Here's an article about the overall topic.

QUOTE from article:
>>>>Does this mean abandoning belief in the “second coming”? Certainly not. It means taking seriously the whole biblical picture, instead of highlighting, and misinterpreting, one part of it. The problem has been, in [43] the last two centuries in particular, that certain texts have been read from within the worldview of dualistic apocalypticism, and have thus produced a less than fully biblical picture, with Jesus flying around like a spaceman and the physical world being destroyed. And if we really suppose – as, alas, many seem to – that this will be the meaning of the Millennium, we will miss the point entirely. Rather, the Bible points to God’s new world, where heaven and earth are fully integrated at last, and whose central feature is the personal, loving and healing presence of Jesus himself, the living embodiment of the one true God as well as the prototype of full, liberated humanity. When we talk about Jesus’ “coming”, the reality to which we point is his personal presence within God’s new creation. - Apocalypse Now? - NTWrightPage

In every past fulfilled OT Judgment, God is always depicted as running around on the clouds, cleaving mountains in half, melting them like wax, making them level with the ground, etc...

Yahweh's various day-of-the-Lord judgments were signaled by the prophets with common apocalyptic language that consists of common apocalyptic idioms and metaphoric doom language. See these fulfilled prophecies and note the common apocalyptic metaphors in each:

*Micah 1:1-9 -- Assyrian conquest of Samaria and Jerusalem
*Nahum 1:1-8 -- Nineveh's doom
*Zephaniah 1:1-10,14-18 -- Judgment against Judah
*2 Samuel 22:8-16 -- the destruction of Saul's kingdom
*Ezekiel 32:1-12 -- Judgment against Egypt by Babylon

In each of these fulfilled passages, we read all of the common apocalyptic metaphors to describe Jehovah's comings:

*the destruction of earth
*the bowing of the heavens
*the melting of the mountains like wax
*the blackening of the sun, moon, and stars
*the wiping away of every living thing
*blood as high as the mountains
*the burning of the earth and all that dwell in it (at His presence)
*Etc. etc.

This is known as APOCALYPTIC LANGUAGE, which is used by the prophets to foretell the downfall of nations and individuals by God in history.

We have no scriptural instruction to interpret this OT prophesy about the Ancient Assyrian conquest of Jerusalem and Samaria as Metaphor:

The mountains will melt under Him,
And the valleys will split
Like wax before the fire,
Like waters poured down a steep place.


Yet Interpret the same language found in Zechariah 14 in Polar Opposite, Hyper-Literal Fashion.

Interestingly in the Zechariah passage, we have a time indicator...

"4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah 14 gives us further information for pinpointing exactly when THAT DAY takes place:

8And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.

Jesus said (which should be proof enough) the He personally FULFILLED this Living Waters Prophesy during His earthly Ministry, (John 7:38) Placing the timing of "in that day" concretely in the 1st century

Tertullian (A.D. 145-220) agrees.
Writing barely 150 years after it happened, he says:
“But at night He went out to the Mount of Olives. For thus had Zechariah pointed out: ‘And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives’

Tertullian was alluding to the fact that the Olivet prophecy set the stage for the judgment-coming of Christ that would once for all break down the Jewish/Gentile division. Matthew Henry explains the theology behind the prophecy:

The partition-wall between Jew and Gentiles shall be taken away. The mountains about Jerusalem, and particularly this, signified it to be an enclosure, and that it stood in the way of those who would approach to it. Between the Gentiles and Jerusalem this mountain of Bether, of division, stood, Cant. ii. 17. But by the destruction of Jerusalem this mountain shall be made to cleave in the midst, and so the Jewish pale shall be taken down, and the church laid in common with the Gentiles, who were made one with the Jews by the breaking down of this middle wall of partition, Eph. ii. 14.8
 
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Douggg

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It's apocalyptic symbolism (and I agree).

Here's an article about the overall topic.

QUOTE from article:
>>>>Does this mean abandoning belief in the “second coming”? Certainly not. It means taking seriously the whole biblical picture, instead of highlighting, and misinterpreting, one part of it. The problem has been, in [43] the last two centuries in particular, that certain texts have been read from within the worldview of dualistic apocalypticism, and have thus produced a less than fully biblical picture, with Jesus flying around like a spaceman and the physical world being destroyed. And if we really suppose – as, alas, many seem to – that this will be the meaning of the Millennium, we will miss the point entirely. Rather, the Bible points to God’s new world, where heaven and earth are fully integrated at last, and whose central feature is the personal, loving and healing presence of Jesus himself, the living embodiment of the one true God as well as the prototype of full, liberated humanity. When we talk about Jesus’ “coming”, the reality to which we point is his personal presence within God’s new creation. - Apocalypse Now? - NTWrightPage
The excerpt from the article is a generalized statement. I am looking for Tom Wright's specific commentary on Zechariah 14:3-4.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
 
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Timtofly

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In which video and at what spot in the video....and what words did he use that you're interpreting that way?

This post:


N.T. Wright is thr former Anglican bishop. He's amillennial and rejects the futurist's description of a rapture.

Farewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage

QUOTE from above link:
Jesus himself, as I have argued in various books, never predicted such an event[2]. The gospel passages about “the Son of Man coming on the clouds” (Mark 13:26, 14:62, for example) are about Jesus’ vindication, his “coming” to heaven from earth. The parables about a returning king or master (for example, Luke 19:11-27) were originally about God returning to Jerusalem, not about Jesus returning to earth. This, Jesus seemed to believe, was an event within space-time history, not one that would end it forever.​
 
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mkgal1

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The excerpt from the article is a generalized statement. I am looking for Tom Wright's specific commentary on Zechariah 14:3-4.
And that's why I quoted this from his page:

>>> It means taking seriously the whole biblical picture, instead of highlighting, and misinterpreting, one part of it. The problem has been, in [43] the last two centuries in particular, that certain texts have been read from within the worldview of dualistic apocalypticism, and have thus produced a less than fully biblical picture, with Jesus flying around like a spaceman and the physical world being destroyed.<<<Farewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage
.....N.T. Wright teaches from a whole story frame of reference. You'll have to read from his page if you want to know his beliefs (and I provided you with that link).
 
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Douggg

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And that's why I quoted this from his page:

>>> It means taking seriously the whole biblical picture, instead of highlighting, and misinterpreting, one part of it. The problem has been, in [43] the last two centuries in particular, that certain texts have been read from within the worldview of dualistic apocalypticism, and have thus produced a less than fully biblical picture, with Jesus flying around like a spaceman and the physical world being destroyed.<<<Farewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage
.....N.T. Wright teaches from a whole story frame of reference. You'll have to read from his page if you want to know his beliefs (and I provided you with that link).
Tom Wright does not understand that Jesus is coming back and as all who have died in Christ are coming back, and God is going to beat the devil's brains out for all the pain and hurt he has done to the human race. Death is not going to be the winner.
 
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Timtofly

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The problem is that Jesus did not say God. The issue is that the term God is being falsely applied to make it a past, preterist, historical event. No human theology can prevent the Second Coming from happening. Both God on the throne and Jesus Christ the Lamb will remove the spiritual blindness totally. Even those who reject Christ will know the truth. They will know Satan has lied. They will still choose Satan's lies, over God on the throne and Jesus Christ.

Any theology that attempts to correct the guidance of God's Word is suspect.

All of the teachings of Jesus in the 4 gospels apply to that time as taught without needing explanation nor correction. They will also apply to the religious leaders of our day. Those who will reject Christ just like the religious leaders of the first century. Also, all of the teachings will apply directly without any symbolic interpretation. They will not apply to the church, because the church will be gone at the Second Coming. They will apply to those left on the earth during the time Christ and the 144k sealed disciples are on earth prior to the False Prophet and Satan's 42 months. This will be the final harvest. To enter the kingdom all souls will be taken out of this current corruptible body. That is why this is the greatest trouble of all history. This trouble will be even more than what Job faced when Satan wanted God to test Job. There are not any second chances or do overs. Death will be final.
 
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