Daniel 2:43

[Torah Keeper]

Daniel 2:43 “As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

Who or what is the clay?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Daniel 2:43 “As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

Who or what is the clay?

The clay was the nation of Israel. As in Isaiah 64:8-11. "But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the CLAY, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. Be not wroth very sore, O Lord, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech the, we are all thy people. Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation. Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste."

The nation of Israel's almost 80 years of independence after the Maccabean victories eventually became mixed with the iron of the Roman empire some time after Pompey had put Israel under tribute to the Romans in 63 BC. This odd mixture never blended very well together, as evidence by the Zealot resistance, which eventually broke out in full-scale rebellion in AD 66, re-establishing the independent nation of Israel once more - however briefly.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Daniel 2:43 “As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.”



Who or what is the clay?

My Belief: mankind is the clay _ for we are definitely made of the dirt of the Earth and the angelic beings are the iron. Going back to Genesis chapter 6 when the Sons of God saw the daughters of man....

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

hi if you are mingling two things one can be say water and the other wine. the water is not wine and the wine is not water. The fact is something is mignling with the seed of man so that is not the seed of men. Now Dan 2 ends with the kingdom coming that covers the earth and has no end. So if you look up all the other passages that describe this transition we can see in Dan 7 that the kingdom comes in that passage too. Now when dominion has been transferred from the pompous one to the the son of man who comes after 3 1/2 years of persecution and this kingdom covers the earth and has no end. So when the kingdom has been brought it it says that the pompous one is given to the flame and the rest of the beast lose their dominion and have their lives prolonged for a season and time. Now who are these beasts that just lost dominion? It is the iron in Dan 2 we wrestle not against flesh and blood but powers and principalities in high places. Satan is bound and loses authority when Christ comes. he is bound for a 1000 years and loosed at the end of it to temp the nations one last time. So if you can track with me the mingling with men is the demonic realm and when the beast is sent to the flame Satan and his allies are now bound for a season for a 1000 years and loosed for a time to tempt or test those who live through the millennium and then they too are cast into the flame.

 

[Clare73]

Daniel 2:43 “As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

Who or what is the clay?

The legs of iron and the feet of clay are the Roman empire made up of different peoples, which conquered the Greek empire in 63 BC, and which ruled the world during the time of Christ until it likewise fell in 476 AD, "not remaining united" (2:43), being divided into 10 "nations" (toes).

 

[3 Resurrections]

The ten toes of the image were more than likely the 10 Senatorial provinces, each under an appointed proconsul, as listed by Strabo in AD 14:

Achaea
Africa
Asia
Bithynia and Pontus
Crete and Cyrenaica
Cyprus
Gallia Narbonensis
Hispania Baetica
Macedonia
Sicilia

These would have all had scattered Jewish inhabitants present in those provinces - the "clay" of Israel mixed along with the "iron" of the Roman empire.

 

[Clare73]

The ten toes of the image were more than likely the 10 Senatorial provinces, each under an appointed proconsul, as listed by Strabo in AD 14:
Achaea
Africa
Asia
Bithynia and Pontus

Crete and Cyrenaica
Cyprus
Gallia Narbonensis
Hispania Baetica
Macedonia
Sicilia

As in Asia, Britain, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Pannonia, Samartia, Spain.

These would have all had scattered Jewish inhabitants present in those provinces - the "clay" of Israel mixed along with the "iron" of the Roman empire.

All mankind is the clay of the potter, Egypt as well as Israel (Romans 9:21).
Iron and clay simply signify mixture of peoples which will not be united (Daniel 2:43).

Daniel 2:44-45 is about the spiritual invisible (Luke 17:20) everlasting (Daniel 2:44) kingdom of God within (Luke 17:21), set up during the Roman empire, which conquered the Greek empire in 63 BC; i.e., at the first coming of Christ.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Iron and clay simply signify mixture of peoples which will not be united (Daniel 2:43).

The symbolism is a bit more precise than that, Clare73. Daniel's entire statue made of various precious metals down to the iron was meant to represent the ancient pagan idolatrous empires of the world. Israel as God's "holy people" was supposed to remain separated from any graven images made of these different metals. They were not to take the silver or gold of these unto themselves or into their houses, because God considered even the metal itself of these images to be an abominable, cursed thing (Deuteronomy 7:25-26). Achan unfortunately found out how serious God was about this commandment after his theft of the coins and the wedge of gold.

Israel's religious leadership in the time of the Roman republic and empire had become adulterously mixed with them in order to "preserve our place and our nation", as Caiphas once said. Not all the Jews of Israel (particularly the nationalistic Zealots) wanted this awkward mixture of their religious leaders working hand in glove with the Roman governor for financial profits.

Jesus Himself had no use for how this collaboration between priesthood and Roman governance had corrupted Temple worship, as evidenced by his driving the moneychangers out of the temple. These had been doing a brisk business for the high priesthood with their exchange fees charged for swapping out all foreign currency for the Temple-required, abominable Tyrian shekel which the priesthood had minted in Jerusalem by Rome's permission and authority.

 

[Clare73]

The symbolism is a bit more precise than that, Clare73. Daniel's entire statue made of various precious metals down to the iron was meant to represent the ancient pagan idolatrous empires of the world.

All empires of the world apart from Israel were pagan idolatrous.

The statue of Daniel 2 represents the four empires of history which related to Israel:
vv. 27-38 (gold) = Babylon (Daniel 2:48), 626 - 539 BC;
v. 39 (silver) = Medo-Persia, 539 - 330 BC;
v. 39 (bronze) = Greece, 330 -63 BC;
vv. 40-43 (iron and clay) = Rome, 63 BC - 476 AD.

This has been the historical orthodox Christian understanding of Daniel 2 for centuries.
The everlasting kingdom of God (Daniel 2:44-45) was set up during the Roman empire of 63 BC - 467 AD, during the first coming of Christ

Israel as God's "holy people" was supposed to remain separated from any graven images made of these different metals. They were not to take the silver or gold of these unto themselves or into their houses, because God considered even the metal itself of these images to be an abominable, cursed thing (Deuteronomy 7:25-26). Achan unfortunately found out how serious God was about this commandment after his theft of the coins and the wedge of gold.

Israel's religious leadership in the time of the Roman republic and empire had become adulterously mixed with them in order to "preserve our place and our nation", as Caiphas once said. Not all the Jews of Israel (particularly the nationalistic Zealots) wanted this awkward mixture of their religious leaders working hand in glove with the Roman governor for financial profits.

Jesus Himself had no use for how this collaboration between priesthood and Roman governance had corrupted Temple worship, as evidenced by his driving the moneychangers out of the temple. These had been doing a brisk business for the high priesthood with their exchange fees charged for swapping out all foreign currency for the Temple-required, abominable Tyrian shekel which the priesthood had minted in Jerusalem by Rome's permission and authority.

 

[3 Resurrections]

All empires of the world apart from Israel were pagan idolatrous.

That's exactly what I said. No argument at all. I said "The ENTIRE STATUE made of various precious metals" - from the gold all the way down to the iron - ALL of these represented pagan idolatrous empires.

When the religious leadership in Israel (the clay) decided to start collaborating adulterously with the iron of the pagan Roman part of this statue, just to pad their own pockets and maintain their positions - this was to abandon the separation from those idolatrous nations that God commanded for His people. Rome was not the clay. Rome was the kingdom of iron, with which the clay of Israel became adulterously blended through the idolatrous actions of the high priesthood.

It's the old, old story: follow the money. Literally, follow the abominable Tyrian shekel coin. It's the mark that the Land Beast forced those in Israel to use which gave homage to the Roman Sea Beast.

 

[Clare73]

That's exactly what I said. No argument at all. I said "The ENTIRE STATUE made of various precious metals" - from the gold all the way down to the iron -
ALL of these represented pagan idolatrous empires.

All empires were idolatrous, the Scythians, Syrians, Egyptians, etc. There were no empires to represent that were not idolatrous.

The statue represents four specific idolatrous empires, not idolatrous empires in general, but only the specific four with which Israel was involved in her history, from Babylon to Rome.

Daniel 2, ending in the setting up of the kingdom of God, which occurred during the Roman empire at the first coming of Christ, has been fulfilled, and which fulfillment orthodox Christianity has understood for centuries.

Even non-believers over the centuries who know of this prophecy are amazed at its accuracy and claim that it had to be written after the events occurred.

When the religious leadership in Israel (the clay) decided to start collaborating adulterously with the iron of the pagan Roman part of this statue, just to pad their own pockets and maintain their positions - this was to abandon the separation from those idolatrous nations that God commanded for His people. Rome was not the clay. Rome was the kingdom of iron, with which the clay of Israel became adulterously blended through the idolatrous actions of the high priesthood.

It's the old, old story: follow the money. Literally, follow the abominable Tyrian shekel coin. It's the mark that the Land Beast forced those in Israel to use which gave homage to the Roman Sea Beast.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The statue represents four specific idolatrous empires, not idolatrous empires in general, but only the specific four with which Israel was involved in her history, from Babylon to Rome.

Exactly so. It stood for the 666 years of specific idolatrous empires with which Israel was involved, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar's first deportation of Jews from Jerusalem (which included Daniel). As John was writing Revelation, 666 years was the historical age of the Revelation 13 Sea Beast with its combined ancient history of lion, bear, and leopard empires, including its then-current Roman phase of existence.

 

[Clare73]

Exactly so. It stood for the 666 years of specific idolatrous empires with which Israel was involved, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar's first deportation of Jews from Jerusalem (which included Daniel). As John was writing Revelation, 666 years was the historical age of the Revelation 13 Sea Beast with its combined ancient history of lion, bear, and leopard empires, including its then-current Roman phase of existence.

Which 666 years does that include?

Are you saying Israel was involved in their idolatry as well in that 666 years?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Which 666 years does that include?

Are you saying Israel was involved in their idolatry as well in that 666 years?

Those 666 years of the Sea Beast's biography extended from Nebuchadnezzar's first deportation of the Jews from Jerusalem in 607 BC until John was writing Revelation somewhere between late AD 59 up to early AD 60 - just before the AD 60 Laodicean earthquake. Any person with a Jewish background reading John's writing, when told to "calculate" the number of the Sea Beast, would have had no trouble remembering that humiliating beginning of their 70 years of Babylonian exile back in 607 BC. Counting backward 666 years from the time they received John's Revelation letters, they would have recognized their ancient antagonist in the person of Nebuchadnezzar - the head of the first "lion" empire which had subjugated their nation.

It was one thing to be subjugated to these pagan nations, having to pay them tribute, but it was quite another to start collaborating with them in their idolatry. This is what happened when the leaders of the "clay" of the Israelite people began compromising their laws in order to gain favor from the "iron" Roman empire holding them subject.

During the days when the Romans were in power, in 19 BC (probably because Herod needed funds to cover the upcoming cost of the massive renovations of the temple), the high priesthood went to Rome and asked them an unprecedented favor. They wanted to be allowed to mint their own currency with a high silver content for use in the Temple. The mint at Tyre producing Tyrian shekels had just shut down, and Tyrian shekel coins with degraded silver content made in the east were beginning to circulate.

As a special favor to Israel, Rome allowed this on one condition: Israel would have to mint the new Jerusalem coinage keeping the very same pagan, abominable images of the Tyrian shekel which had been in circulation. The image of the demi-god Hercules was on it with the profane inscription "Tyre the holy and city of refuge" (Jezebel's home town), and the Roman eagle on the back, with the initials "KP" standing for "kratos Romaion" showing that these coins were minted with Rome's authority and permission.

This went completely against the commands of God in Deuteronomy 8:25-26 prohibiting even the use of the corrupted silver or gold precious metals used in making graven images connected to the gods of the pagan nations. Yet the priesthood in 19 BC agreed to these terms Rome laid down, and ignored God's strict commands about this. This was priesthood-sanctioned participation in the idolatry of the pagan nations, which was then forced upon the people in Israel, requiring them to use only this abominable imitation Tyrian shekel for buying or selling items for worship in the Temple.

There is a reason why this image of the demi-god Hercules on the Tyrian shekel was so revolting to God. It represented a hybrid blend of human and divine, just as the "sons of God" angels back in Genesis 6 had married human wives and begotten hybrid sons that became the giants of old. God had to wipe the entire earth's population off the globe with a flood except for Noah's family, just to cleanse the gene pool of the human race from these hybrid creatures.

So, for Israel's priesthood to actually require a coin like the imitation Tyrian shekel in their temple which exalted a Roman example of a hybrid demi-god like Hercules on its face - this was an affront to God that was truly "an abomination": truly "a cursed thing" that God called it back in Deuteronomy 8:25-26. It was the required "mark" of the Sea Beast, imposed on the worshippers in Israel's temple by the corrupt high priesthood (the Land Beast), who were using the massive profits from the required exchange fees for this Tyrian shekel to line their own pockets. No wonder Christ overturned the moneychangers' tables and took a whip to them.

 

[Clare73]

Those 666 years of the Sea Beast's biography extended from Nebuchadnezzar's first deportation of the Jews from Jerusalem in 607 BC until John was writing Revelation somewhere between late AD 59 up to early AD 60 - just before the AD 60 Laodicean earthquake. Any person with a Jewish background reading John's writing, when told to "calculate" the number of the Sea Beast, would have had no trouble remembering that humiliating beginning of their 70 years of Babylonian exile back in 607 BC. Counting backward 666 years from the time they received John's Revelation letters, they would have recognized their ancient antagonist in the person of Nebuchadnezzar - the head of the first "lion" empire which had subjugated their nation.

It was one thing to be subjugated to these pagan nations, having to pay them tribute, but it was quite another to start collaborating with them in their idolatry. This is what happened when the leaders of the "clay" of the Israelite people began compromising their laws in order to gain favor from the "iron" Roman empire hold them subject.

But they returned from exile in Babylon in 538 BC, and never practiced idolatry in general again, which would include under the Roman empire from 63 BC to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, right?

During the days when the Romans were in power, in 19 BC (probably because Herod needed funds to cover the upcoming cost of the massive renovations of the temple), the high priesthood went to Rome and asked them an unprecedented favor. They wanted to be allowed to mint their own currency with a high silver content for use in the Temple. The mint at Tyre producing Tyrian shekels had just shut down, and Tyrian shekel coins with degraded silver content made in the east were beginning to circulate.

As a special favor to Israel, Rome allowed this on one condition: Israel would have to mint the new Jerusalem coinage keeping the very same pagan, abominable images of the Tyrian shekel which had been in circulation. The image of the demi-god Hercules was on it with the profane inscription "Tyre the holy and city of refuge" (Jezebel's home town), and the Roman eagle on the back, with the initials "KP" standing for "kratos Romaion" showing that these coins were minted with Rome's authority and permission.

This went completely against the commands of God in Deuteronomy 8:25-26 prohibiting even the use of the corrupted silver or gold precious metals used in making graven images connected to the gods of the pagan nations. Yet the priesthood in 19 BC agreed to these terms Rome laid down, and ignored God's strict commands about this. This was priesthood-sanctioned participation in the idolatry of the pagan nations, which was then forced upon the people in Israel, requiring them to use only this abominable imitation Tyrian shekel for buying or selling items for worship in the Temple.

There is a reason why this image of the demi-god Hercules on the Tyrian shekel was so revolting to God. It represented a hybrid blend of human and divine, just as the "sons of God" angels back in Genesis 6 had married human wives and begotten hybrid sons that became the giants of old. God had to wipe the entire earth's population off the globe with a flood except for Noah's family, just to cleanse the gene pool of the human race from these hybrid creatures.

So, for Israel's priesthood to actually require a coin like the imitation Tyrian shekel in their temple which exalted a Roman example of a hybrid demi-god like Hercules on its face - this was an affront to God that was truly "an abomination": truly "a cursed thing" that God called it back in Deuteronomy 8:25-26. It was the required "mark" of the Sea Beast, imposed on the worshippers in Israel's temple by the corrupt high priesthood (the Land Beast), who were using the massive profits from the required exchange fees for this Tyrian shekel to line their own pockets. No wonder Christ overturned the moneychangers' tables and took a whip to them.

 

[Torah Keeper]

3 Resurrections, you make absolutely no sense. You are saying the mark of the beast began in 607 BC, and ended in 59 AD?

So during this time no one could buy or sell without the mark of the beast?

And after 59 AD suddenly the world became a paradise? Yeshua returned in 59 AD?

Did you forget the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD?

John wrote that 666 is the number of a man.

Which man? (and for crying out loud don't say Nero)

Your interpretation of Bible prophecy is way off course even for a preterist.

 

[3 Resurrections]

But they returned from exile in Babylon in 538 BC, and never practiced idolatry in general again, which would include under the Roman empire from 63 BC to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, right?

You are right that the post-exilic nation of Israel in Ezra, Nehemiah, Zerubbabel, and Joshua's time in general was not practicing idolatry. God had revived the people in Jerusalem in those days with a true fear of the Lord, as Haggai the prophet wrote. They had learned a hard, 70-year-long lesson against practicing idolatry, or there would be consequences coming from God.

But by the time the year 19 BC rolled around, with the "iron" Roman empire in power, this lesson had been forgotten once again. (Boy, is humanity hard-headed!) Israel's religious leaders compromised their own strict Mosaic laws in Deuteronomy 8:25-26 by voluntarily making their own people produce and then use that abominable Tyrian shekel in their own temple's worship system; a practice which God so despised.

Every adult male who was paying their yearly Temple tax was required to pay it using that abominable Tyrian shekel or half shekel. And no buying or selling anything in the Temple without that one particular coin. Plus, the married women of the nation wore a set of these coins on the forehead of their headdresses, denoting their marital status.

3 Resurrections, you make absolutely no sense. You are saying the mark of the beast began in 607 BC, and ended in 59 AD?

So during this time no one could buy or sell without the mark of the beast?

No, Torah Keeper, I wrote that the biography of the Sea Beast had begun back in 607 BC, and was on its 666th year of existence as John was writing Revelation somewhere between AD 59 and early AD 60. The "mark" with the idolatrous image made by the Land Beast which gave homage to the Sea Beast began back in 19 BC with the imitation Tyrian shekel production, minted at Jerusalem. This "mark" lasted until AD 66, with no one buying or selling in the Temple without using the required Tyrian shekel. It was in AD 66 that the Zealots who hated their Roman governance launched the rebellion and began minting their own coinage as a sovereign, independent nation of Israel once more (which independent nation of Israel only lasted until AD 70).

The ancient biography of the Sea Beast did not always include that "mark" being used. The Sea Beast was meant to represent the conglomerate set of pagan empires (having those former "lion", "bear", and "leopard" features plus the final "dreadful and terrible" beast) that had subjugated Israel and Jerusalem ever since 607 BC when Nebuchadnezzar deported the first "good figs" back to Babylon for captivity (including Daniel). It was only toward the end of those 666 years of the Sea Beast's existence that the "mark" was imposed by the Judean Land Beast on those dwelling in the earth (tes ges - those living in the land of Israel or worshipping at its temple).

The "mark" of the Sea Beast had a very short lifespan, comparatively speaking, from 19 BC until AD 66. It was this period when the "clay" became mixed with the "iron" of the Roman empire by joining in idolatrous practices with the priesthood-required use of this Tyrian shekel.

And after 59 AD suddenly the world became a paradise? Yeshua returned in 59 AD?

Of course not. Quite the contrary; this was the period of "the beginning of sorrows" of wars, rumors of wars, plagues, famines, earthquakes in divers places, persecution of the saints by the Jews and then the emperor Nero in AD 64, etc., etc. All of this was even before the "Great Tribulation" and its "Days of Vengeance" ramped up in Israel from AD 66-70.

John wrote that 666 is the number of a man.

Which man? (and for crying out loud don't say Nero)

LOL, no, I won't say it's Nero. That is a rather common Preterist misunderstanding, unfortunately.

This is very simple. The number of 666 is called "the number of a MAN" because it was Daniel's statue of a man which represented all those 4 pagan idolatrous empires, plus the "clay" of Israel that finally became mixed with the last "iron" Roman empire. You remember, of course, that in Daniel 7:4, the first "lion" empire (also known as Nebuchadnezzar's first empire of gold) "was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a MAN, and a MAN'S heart was given to it." This first "lion" empire was the numbered beginning of the name of the Sea Beast. A name is usually given to something at the beginning of its existence. Same thing here with the number of the name of the Sea Beast which came into existence back in 607 BC, and had endured 666 years as of the time John was writing his Revelation.

Your interpretation of Bible prophecy is way off course even for a preterist.

So long as this interpretation consistently follows scripture right down the line, is this a problem?

 

[Clare73]

You are right that the post-exilic nation of Israel in Ezra, Nehemiah, Zerubbabel, and Joshua's time in general was not practicing idolatry. God had revived the people in Jerusalem in those days with a true fear of the Lord, as Haggai the prophet wrote. They had learned a hard, 70-year-long lesson against practicing idolatry, or there would be consequences coming from God.

But by the time the year 19 BC rolled around, with the "iron" Roman empire in power, this lesson had been forgotten once again. (Boy, is humanity hard-headed!) Israel's religious leaders compromised their own strict Mosaic laws in Deuteronomy 8:25-26 by voluntarily making their own people produce and then use that abominable Tyrian shekel in their own temple's worship system; a practice which God so despised.

Every adult male who was paying their yearly Temple tax was required to pay it using that abominable Tyrian shekel or half shekel. And no buying or selling anything in the Temple without that one particular coin. Plus, the married women of the nation wore a set of these coins on the forehead of their headdresses, denoting their marital status.

But that is not idolatry, is it?

 

[3 Resurrections]

But that is not idolatry, is it?

To bring those coins with the image of a pagan god (Hercules) into the Temple of God against God's strict laws forbidding this back in Deuteronomy 8:25-26, yes, that Tyrian shekel with its abominable images and inscriptions being required by Israel's own high priesthood for use in the Temple was most definitely a case of idolatry going on. Particularly since the money-changers were making huge profits for the high priesthood from the extra fees charged for exchanging any foreign currency for the required Tyrian shekel coin.

You do realize, don't you, just how offensive it was to God for these Tyrian shekel coins to have the inscription "Tyre the holy and city of refuge"? The ancient city of Tyre had been Satan's turf. Satan the "anointed cherub" was called the "Prince of Tyre" back in Ezekiel 28:12. Tyre was that wicked queen Jezebel's home turf also, who was Ahab's counselor to do evil, who had God's prophets murdered, and who set up idol worship for Baal.

For these Tyrian shekel coins to laud the city of Tyre and call it "holy" - this was to slap God in the face. And for God's own high priesthood to be so corrupt as to require the use of this abominable Tyrian shekel coin in God's own Temple just for their own financial gain - it doesn't get more insulting than that.

 

[Torah Keeper]

You are right that the post-exilic nation of Israel in Ezra, Nehemiah, Zerubbabel, and Joshua's time in general was not practicing idolatry. God had revived the people in Jerusalem in those days with a true fear of the Lord, as Haggai the prophet wrote. They had learned a hard, 70-year-long lesson against practicing idolatry, or there would be consequences coming from God.

But by the time the year 19 BC rolled around, with the "iron" Roman empire in power, this lesson had been forgotten once again. (Boy, is humanity hard-headed!) Israel's religious leaders compromised their own strict Mosaic laws in Deuteronomy 8:25-26 by voluntarily making their own people produce and then use that abominable Tyrian shekel in their own temple's worship system; a practice which God so despised.

Every adult male who was paying their yearly Temple tax was required to pay it using that abominable Tyrian shekel or half shekel. And no buying or selling anything in the Temple without that one particular coin. Plus, the married women of the nation wore a set of these coins on the forehead of their headdresses, denoting their marital status.



No, Torah Keeper, I wrote that the biography of the Sea Beast had begun back in 607 BC, and was on its 666th year of existence as John was writing Revelation somewhere between AD 59 and early AD 60. The "mark" with the idolatrous image made by the Land Beast which gave homage to the Sea Beast began back in 19 BC with the imitation Tyrian shekel production, minted at Jerusalem. This "mark" lasted until AD 66, with no one buying or selling in the Temple without using the required Tyrian shekel. It was in AD 66 that the Zealots who hated their Roman governance launched the rebellion and began minting their own coinage as a sovereign, independent nation of Israel once more (which independent nation of Israel only lasted until AD 70).

The ancient biography of the Sea Beast did not always include that "mark" being used. The Sea Beast was meant to represent the conglomerate set of pagan empires (having those former "lion", "bear", and "leopard" features plus the final "dreadful and terrible" beast) that had subjugated Israel and Jerusalem ever since 607 BC when Nebuchadnezzar deported the first "good figs" back to Babylon for captivity (including Daniel). It was only toward the end of those 666 years of the Sea Beast's existence that the "mark" was imposed by the Judean Land Beast on those dwelling in the earth (tes ges - those living in the land of Israel or worshipping at its temple).

The "mark" of the Sea Beast had a very short lifespan, comparatively speaking, from 19 BC until AD 66. It was this period when the "clay" became mixed with the "iron" of the Roman empire by joining in idolatrous practices with the priesthood-required use of this Tyrian shekel.



Of course not. Quite the contrary; this was the period of "the beginning of sorrows" of wars, rumors of wars, plagues, famines, earthquakes in divers places, persecution of the saints by the Jews and then the emperor Nero in AD 64, etc., etc. All of this was even before the "Great Tribulation" and its "Days of Vengeance" ramped up in Israel from AD 66-70.



LOL, no, I won't say it's Nero. That is a rather common Preterist misunderstanding, unfortunately.

This is very simple. The number of 666 is called "the number of a MAN" because it was Daniel's statue of a man which represented all those 4 pagan idolatrous empires, plus the "clay" of Israel that finally became mixed with the last "iron" Roman empire. You remember, of course, that in Daniel 7:4, the first "lion" empire (also known as Nebuchadnezzar's first empire of gold) "was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a MAN, and a MAN'S heart was given to it." This first "lion" empire was the numbered beginning of the name of the Sea Beast. A name is usually given to something at the beginning of its existence. Same thing here with the number of the name of the Sea Beast which came into existence back in 607 BC, and had endured 666 years as of the time John was writing his Revelation.



So long as this interpretation consistently follows scripture right down the line, is this a problem?

Ok now I understand your point of view better. But I still disagree. So you think Yeshua had the mark of the beast then? Since He and the apostles used coins minted by the Romans? And Ceasar was worshipped as a god? Is this any different than the modern euro(the goddess Europa) or any other currency? How were coins a mark on the right hand or forehead?