Daniel 12

[tnp2140]

Hello everyone. I'm kind of new to the forums here even though I've had an account since a couple years ago but just never used it. But I'm glad to see that there are still SDAs here who hold strong to the sacred and pure truths that we, as the remnant have been given.

I'm not sure where you all, as Biblical(I prefer that term rather than Fundamental) SDAs, stand as far as being aware what is going in the world and how close we are to the end and the Sunday Law, and mostly importantly what is going on inside our own church, but I hope to get to know all of you in the near future


Now I've been an SDA all my life but in all my time I've never heard or seen anyone do an in-depth study of Daniel 12. Recently, I've come across an interesting view of Daniel 12, in connection with what E.G.W. said about the time of the end(primarily Sunday Law and the close of probation), and in connection with Revelation 13, and now I'm trying to see how Biblical it is.

So I want to ask you all when it comes to Daniel 12(primarily the 1260 day, 1290, and 1335 day prophecies), what are your views/beliefs on it? Whether it's what you've heard other Adventists say/preach about it or what you personally believe it is talking about.

Let's have a good talk about this.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi tnp2140,

Glad you stopped by and WELCOME ABOARD!!!

You question has great merrit. Currently we are studying the entire books of Daniel, and Revelation, from Daniel 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, in the New Adventist/Bible Study sub-forum. We are covering both of these most important books of prophecy as a continuim so as to lay a very firm foundation for our beliefs in them and to let each of them help us to under stand the other. I invite you to join us there.

For the moment I'm going to with hold comment on your questions and see what others have to say on the subject. I will say this however, the peoples of the world, including SDAs, really don't realize just how close we are to the second coming. Nor do they see what the trigger is going to be in regards to the Sunday Laws.

Respectfully, your friend and brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[Jimlarmore]

Not too long ago I was watching 3abn and a doctor of medicine and theology was being interviewed by Jim Gilley. His name was Shea and he had a great deal of wisdom about the Bible in regards to Daniel and Revelations. The 1260, 1290 and 1335 days are all prophetic days according to him. I agree and they should be counted day for a year as the 2300 and the 1260 are in the earlier chapters. To do anything else is not being consistent with your treatise of scripture. Anyway, concerning the 1290 he spoke of an event that occurred when Roman leader named Vigilus took control of Roman back from one of the Germanic tribes in 508 A.D. which is exactly 1290 years from 1798 when the pope was dethroned by Napolean. I'll get back with you on the website you can go to for Dr. Shea. After listening to him I am much more comfortable with the IJ Biblically.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[tnp2140]

Thanks for the welcome guys. I haven't had much time but I'll be checking out the Bible Studies section a little more this coming week


Jim, that's exactly what I believe. But I've been noticing some irregularities and holes with this particular 1260 day theory.

First thing I'm noticing is in Revelation 13.

"3.And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4.And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? "

Our understanding of the wound 'being healed' takes us to the Lateran Treaty of 1929. But according to this actual verse there's no way that could have happened because the whole world wasn't amazed or 'wondered' after the beast and didn't worship the papacy in a manner stated in Revelation 13. See what I'm saying? I found that to be very interesting...

 

[Bourbaki]

Now I've been an SDA all my life but in all my time I've never heard or seen anyone do an in-depth study of Daniel 12.

That's because Adventists don't have an in-depth understanding of Daniel 11-12.

So I want to ask you all when it comes to Daniel 12 (primarily the 1260 day, 1290, and 1335 day prophecies), what are your views/beliefs on it?

The clearest understanding of the book of Daniel available anywhere is the free book http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/eschatology.pdf

 

[reddogs]

I guess we need to be reminded of the guidelines for the Traditional Seventh-day Adventists Sub-forum .....

Guidelines for the Traditional Seventh-day Adventists Sub-forum


The new guidelines for this sub-forum, as quoted below from the wiki, are now in effect:
Quote:
4. Traditional Seventh-day Adventists Sub-forum (Effective September 20, 2007)

4.1 This sub-forum is mainly for fellowship and discussion amongst Traditional Seventh-day Adventists, defined here as those who agree with all 28 Fundamental Beliefs.

4.2 Non Seventh-day Adventists and other Seventh-day Adventists who do not identify themselves as Traditional Seventh-day Adventists may ask questions on issues relevant to Traditional Adventists.

4.3 Debate in this forum on any topic is limited to those who identify themselves as Traditional Seventh-day Adventists.

4.4 Teaching in this forum on any topic is limited to those who identify themselves as Traditional Seventh-day Adventists.

4.5 Topics and posts that speak against any of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA Church are not permitted in this sub-forum.


Red
Seventh-Day Adventist Forum Moderator

 

[OntheDL]

Thanks for the welcome guys. I haven't had much time but I'll be checking out the Bible Studies section a little more this coming week


Jim, that's exactly what I believe. But I've been noticing some irregularities and holes with this particular 1260 day theory.

First thing I'm noticing is in Revelation 13.

"3.And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4.And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? "

Our understanding of the wound 'being healed' takes us to the Lateran Treaty of 1929. But according to this actual verse there's no way that could have happened because the whole world wasn't amazed or 'wondered' after the beast and didn't worship the papacy in a manner stated in Revelation 13. See what I'm saying? I found that to be very interesting...

Hi,

The 1260 year prophecy began at 538AD when the Pope decreed to uproot the last of the 3 horns, to declare supremacy over the kings of the world, to abolish secular power and establish religious power.

For 1260, the Papacy had dominion/total control over the professed christian world. The western world fell into spiritual darkness during the Dark Age.

It ended at 1798AD when the French army abolished the religious power and establish secular power. The pope was taken to prison.

This was the deadly wound. The church lost her power and influence over the affairs of the world and the grip on God's professed people. But through her front organizations working in secrete her power was gradually restored.

The February 12 1929 San Francisco Chronicle prophetically proclaimed the wound was sealed by the signing of the Roman pact by Mussolini and Gaspari.

We saw how the world wondered after the last Pope. Much of the lost power was restored to her. New York Times attributed the fall of Soviet Union to Pope John Paul II. Pres. George W Bush urged Americans to follow the pope's teaching.

The bible predicted a series of events after the 1260 years ended, not necessarily in the short subsequent fashion. It's a process of restoration of power.

I'll give you an example. In Rev 12:7-9, it says there was war in heaven and the dragon was cast out to the earth.

So in two short sentences (when the bible was written, there were no verses and chapters, just the whole scroll), it described two events that could have been aions from when the controversy started to when Satan and his angels were finally thrown out of heaven.

 

[tnp2140]

Yes, I know those statements by heart

Yet in verse 3 there's no indication at all that it is a progressive return to power. More likely the context of the verse seems to suggest that the world was astonished and wondered after the beast at the very healing of the wound. And as you said, 1929 might possibly have been a partial healing. And again, verse 3s context denotes a full healing from the wound.

There's a similar descrapancy in verse 7 and 8 that I've noticed as well. There's just some things to think about in there and which need to be given serious and fresh studying without the bias of what we have come to believe in the past.


While we don't have ALL the knowledge and truth that the Word contains, I do believe that we have most truth in our church than any other out there; whether it be the full understanding of the 3 angel's message, the holy Sabbath, the cleansing of the sanctuary, the Spirit of Prophecy and all our other truths. Yet don't let us forget that we are still human and are bound to make errors, especially in the areas of Prophecy.


Also let us not forget that Satan has a deep understanding of prophecy as well. Something we need to be aware of especially in these end times. We know he will impersonate Christ just before the very end, and we know that he will do it in such a way that if it was possible, even the elect would be deceived. It will have to be pretty convincing wouldn't you think?

While we study prophecy it is important to keep these things in mind as well as the possibility of Satan falsely counterfeiting fullfilment of prophecy in the PAST, just like we know he will do in the future, in order to point us in the wrong direction.



"There is a need of a much closer study of the Word of God; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before... The light that Daniel received from God was given especially for these last days." (Testimonies to ministers and gospel workers. 112,113)


God Bless.

 

[Jon0388g]

Yes, I know those statements by heart

Yet in verse 3 there's no indication at all that it is a progressive return to power. More likely the context of the verse seems to suggest that the world was astonished and wondered after the beast at the very healing of the wound. And as you said, 1929 might possibly have been a partial healing. And again, verse 3s context denotes a full healing from the wound.

There's a similar descrapancy in verse 7 and 8 that I've noticed as well. There's just some things to think about in there and which need to be given serious and fresh studying without the bias of what we have come to believe in the past.


While we don't have ALL the knowledge and truth that the Word contains, I do believe that we have most truth in our church than any other out there; whether it be the full understanding of the 3 angel's message, the holy Sabbath, the cleansing of the sanctuary, the Spirit of Prophecy and all our other truths. Yet don't let us forget that we are still human and are bound to make errors, especially in the areas of Prophecy.


Also let us not forget that Satan has a deep understanding of prophecy as well. Something we need to be aware of especially in these end times. We know he will impersonate Christ just before the very end, and we know that he will do it in such a way that if it was possible, even the elect would be deceived. It will have to be pretty convincing wouldn't you think?

While we study prophecy it is important to keep these things in mind as well as the possibility of Satan falsely counterfeiting fullfilment of prophecy in the PAST, just like we know he will do in the future, in order to point us in the wrong direction.



"There is a need of a much closer study of the Word of God; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before... The light that Daniel received from God was given especially for these last days." (Testimonies to ministers and gospel workers. 112,113)


God Bless.

Amen, and welcome.