LDS Damnation for Refusal to Become Mormon

He is the way

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LOL!! I am not the one that can't read!! You guys are not interested in the actual meaning of words and phrases--esp. Jewish ones. Whenever anyone disagrees with you just call them liars and say they make things up!! It never occurs to you that it is you JS and his so called prophets that are making things up and lying to you! As you will find out one day and it will b e too late!! It is not truth you want--but affirmation that your JS was really a prophet of God---he was not and had no idea of what the Jews were talking about!

Jews were constantly backsliding and getting into idolatry. They had spent 400 years with the Egyptians and all their gods and they were surrounded by nations that had many pagan gods. The concept of God being the most high is that He is the only real, true God amongst all those pagan ones---not that there really are other gods.


I like the translation אֱלֹהִים as 'Power' or 'Powerful Ones.' That covers the different possible meanings of G-d, false gods, powerful people or angels. Those who are either powerful or are falsely thought to be powerful in this world.

In a Kabbalistic sense when G-d is referred to as אֱלֹהִים that represents G-d acting within nature, while Y-H-V-H represents G-d transcending nature.

Psalm 82 poetically plays on the different meanings of אֱלֹהִים to exhort judges to judge properly and support the weak and poor rather than favoring the rich and powerful. Here is my non-literal translation.

G-d 'stands' in the midst of judges and will judge them.

How long will you (bad) judges favor the wicked? Give justice to the weak, the orphan and the poor. Rescue the needy and powerless from the hands of the wicked.

They (corrupt judges) do not know nor do they understand that they walk in darkness.

I thought all judges were G-dly and powerful sons of the most High (i.e. good and righteous) But like all men, even powerful princes you will die.

Please G-d judge the world, you control all the nations.


This has been posted several times and you ignore it so you can believe whatever you want. I don't make things up---I don't need to. God deals in reality, not fiction.
You said: "he was not and had no idea of what the Jews were talking about!" I believe that God has revealed these things in our day so that we will be better prepared to meet Him. I know that you like to replace the word God with judges claiming that was what was meant. However it was the pre-mortal Christ that said:

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1 - 8)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Jesus verified this when He said:

(New Testament | John 10:34)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So let us use the word judges:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 36)

4 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are judges?
35 If he called them judges, unto whom the word of judge came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of judge?

The word judge does not work in place of God, therefore it is also wrong to use it in Psalms 82 of the Old Testament. The Greek has a different word for Judge, so when Jesus used the word God it meant God.
 
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mmksparbud

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Θεοί
gods

ἐστε
you are



Theou
Θεοῦ
of God

The 2 words are spelled different in Greek.

But if you insist on your interpretation---even if in Psalm 82 you keep the word gods---it still comes down to they are men and will die as such.

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

We are all children of God. Jesus was not blaspheming by saying He was the Son of God.
 
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He is the way

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Θεοί
gods

ἐστε
you are



Theou
Θεοῦ
of God

The 2 words are spelled different in Greek.

But if you insist on your interpretation---even if in Psalm 82 you keep the word gods---it still comes down to they are men and will die as such.

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

We are all children of God. Jesus was not blaspheming by saying He was the Son of God.
Yes we will die, even as Adam died, and we are children of the most high God:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:20 - 29)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes we will die, even as Adam died, and we are children of the most high God:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:20 - 29)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


That still does not mean that there are other gods---God is the one and only true God and anyone who thinks there are other gods are breaking the commandments.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Psa 81:9 There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.
Deu 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

If you believe there are other gods out there---you stand in opposition to God.
 
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Peter1000

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Yep, just like Larry, Curly, and Moe, right? They were great in that old short where Curly pretends to be a mummy. Way more believable than anything in Mormonism.
Because the Bible supports what the Church of Jesus Christ believe.
 
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dzheremi

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Because the Bible supports what the Church of Jesus Christ believe.

Yes it does. Mormonism/LDS (or any of the other offshoots of Joseph Smith's movement) simply isn't the Church of Jesus Christ, even though you believe it to be so.
 
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Peter1000

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That still does not mean that there are other gods---God is the one and only true God and anyone who thinks there are other gods are breaking the commandments.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Psa 81:9 There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.
Deu 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

If you believe there are other gods out there---you stand in opposition to God.
Did God the Father die on the cross? If He didn't die, then He and Jesus are 2 different beings. One died, and the One that sent him to die, watched it happen from the heavens. 2 separate and distinct beings.
 
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Peter1000

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Yes it does. Mormonism/LDS (or any of the other offshoots of Joseph Smith's movement) simply isn't the Church of Jesus Christ, even though you believe it to be so.
Well, all I can say is that you had the first shot to use it for your church, so do not get mad because we are using it and believe it to be true.
 
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He is the way

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That still does not mean that there are other gods---God is the one and only true God and anyone who thinks there are other gods are breaking the commandments.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Psa 81:9 There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.
Deu 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

If you believe there are other gods out there---you stand in opposition to God.
Yes Jesus is the God of Israel.

(Old Testament | Exodus 6:3 - 7)

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:
7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:11)

11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There is only one Lord and that is Jesus Christ.
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes Jesus is the God of Israel.

(Old Testament | Exodus 6:3 - 7)

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:
7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:11)

11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There is only one Lord and that is Jesus Christ.

God the Father is the God of the universe---there is no other god anywhere---period. Jesus is not one of His Sons---He is the Only one.
 
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dzheremi

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Well, all I can say is that you had the first shot to use it for your church, so do not get mad because we are using it and believe it to be true.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, Peter.
 
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Peter1000

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I don't know what you're trying to say here, Peter.
It's pretty clear. Why did your church, when splitting off of the mother church in the 5th century not choose to call itself the Church of Jesus Christ? Why did they choose to call their church The Oriental Orthodox Church?

Seems to me if you believed that you were saving the true orthodox of the church you would have called yourself the Church of Jesus Christ of the Orthodox Saints.

It just seems if I were starting a new Christian church I would at least have the name of Jesus Christ somewhere in the name we chose for our new church. Since we are a Christian church and all. Does that not make sense to you?
 
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He is the way

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God the Father is the God of the universe---there is no other god anywhere---period. Jesus is not one of His Sons---He is the Only one.
Jesus Christ is the LORD of the universe and the God of Israel after He covenanted with Israel to be their God and Saviour. I have shown this to be true through the verses in the Bible, but somehow you are unable to comprehend it. Jesus Christ is also known as God:

(New Testament | Titus 2:11 - 15)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Jesus is not the only spirit son of God, but He is the only begotten (physical birth) Son of God.
 
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dzheremi

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It's pretty clear. Why did your church, when splitting off of the mother church in the 5th century not choose to call itself the Church of Jesus Christ? Why did they choose to call their church The Oriental Orthodox Church?

Seems to me if you believed that you were saving the true orthodox of the church you would have called yourself the Church of Jesus Christ of the Orthodox Saints.

It just seems if I were starting a new Christian church I would at least have the name of Jesus Christ somewhere in the name we chose for our new church. Since we are a Christian church and all. Does that not make sense to you?

What the...? This again? And on America's birthday?! Oh no. Oh heck no.

Alright, Peter. I've told you before that we're not going to go through this nonsense anymore where you make a post that is not about my Church into a discussion about my Church when it is not relevant to anything. I would've posted the exact same thing if I was still Roman Catholic, or if I was any kind of Protestant, or if I was Eastern Orthodox (because no Christian church, no matter its relationship to Chalcedon or the Tome, believes that Mormonism is somehow a 'restoration' of anything having to do with the first-century Christian Church of the apostles and disciples), and the name of the thread is "Damnation for Refusal to Become Mormon", not "Peter1000's questions about the naming conventions of churches".

I was kinda hoping you'd actually listened to me when I told you not to do that anymore, and explained why I wouldn't be putting up with it in the future, but hey...welcome back to my ignore list, buddy. You've earned it with your heaps of irrelevant nonsense and utter foolishness such as this most recent reply. Take care.
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus Christ is the LORD of the universe and the God of Israel after He covenanted with Israel to be their God and Saviour. I have shown this to be true through the verses in the Bible, but somehow you are unable to comprehend it. Jesus Christ is also known as God:

(New Testament | Titus 2:11 - 15)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Jesus is not the only spirit son of God, but He is the only begotten (physical birth) Son of God.


Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God---of the whole entire universe. It is you who are unable to accept it and as long as you think there are other gods out there---you are breaking the 4th commandment!!
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus Christ is the LORD of the universe and the God of Israel after He covenanted with Israel to be their God and Saviour. I have shown this to be true through the verses in the Bible, but somehow you are unable to comprehend it. Jesus Christ is also known as God:

(New Testament | Titus 2:11 - 15)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Jesus is not the only spirit son of God, but He is the only begotten (physical birth) Son of God.


Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You do not believe in the One and Only Son of God. He is one of His sons. He has only one.
 
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He is the way

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Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You do not believe in the One and Only Son of God. He is one of His sons. He has only one.
Not what the Bible says:

(Old Testament | Genesis 6:2)

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

(Old Testament | Job 38:7)

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

(New Testament | Philippians 2:15)

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

How much evidence is enough? Some people still believe the earth is flat. There is not enough evidence for them to believe otherwise.
 
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mmksparbud

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Not what the Bible says:

(Old Testament | Genesis 6:2)

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

(Old Testament | Job 38:7)

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

(New Testament | Philippians 2:15)

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

How much evidence is enough? Some people still believe the earth is flat. There is not enough evidence for them to believe otherwise.

He has only one Son that is His own--humanity is adopted children!!

Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom_9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
 
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Rescued One

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As members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints we believe that salvation into one of the three kingdoms of heaven will be accomplished by almost everyone who has, does, or will ever live on the earth. After this life we will go to the spirit world until the resurrection. While there spirits who didn't hear the gospel will be taught the gospel before the judgment:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

People have told me I can't be saved because they say I am not a Christian. I see that as being a separatist attitude. We believe that everyone will eventually receive the necessary ordinances for salvation by the proxy work being done in their behalf. Some people do not like the proxy baptism being done for the dead. It makes me wonder if they also do not like the proxy atonement done for them by Jesus Christ to have their sins forgiven if they repent. People who are baptized by proxy can accept or reject those ordinances done in their behalf. We know that Jesus visited the spirit world after His death. I hope that answers your question.

This is not accurate information. Only Mormons who have kept the LDS commandments will have eternal life.

Obedience is the basic law of heaven, and obedience to specific laws will result in specific blessings, culminating in the greatest blessing, as Elder Marion G. Romney explained: “The perfection upon which exaltation hangs, I repeat, is an individual matter. It is conditioned upon the observance of celestial laws as they apply to earth life. The Word of Wisdom is one of them, so also are chastity, tithing, observance of the Sabbath day, prayer, honesty, industry, love of God and fellow men, patience, kindness, charity, and all the rest of the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Each individual who observes one or more of these laws shall receive the blessings predicated thereon, and each Church member who will, with all the energy
of his soul, diligently strive to live them all, shall receive the blessings predicated upon such striving. Eternal life, the greatest gift of God, is that blessing, and it will follow the living of the gospel as the night the day, regardless of statistics or averages, or of what others think or say or do.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1956, pp. 15–16; see also Enrichment G in the Appendix.)
“Section 130, Items of Instruction,” Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (2002), 321–24

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. Again, the parable of the sheep and the goats gives us assurance that there will be total justice.”
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 304–5
 
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