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dad'd "Box"

Electric Sceptic

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dad said:
Many were well documented I had thought.
Then you thought wrong.

dad said:
The bible is good documentation, and is pregnant with them!
A two thousand year old book by authors unknown is lousy documentation.

dad said:
Aimee Semple McPherson presided over thousands. Look into it, I think many are pretty well known there.
I have. Many claims are well known; claims that can actually be supported are non-existent.

And still you avoid completely supporting your claim that the spiritual is testable.

dad said:
I don't like religion, so I don't know.
A strange claim for somebody so religious.

dad said:
The people who killed the Son of God were religious. Did they rectify their errors? Don't think so.
Good, then you admit the religious do not rectify their errors. Science does.

dad said:
The most accepted orgin theory for the universe is still the big bang.
Yes, it is. So?

dad said:
At one time, indeed the soup was tiny, that contained, they say all that is in our visible universe. So tiny it could not be seen by the eye at all. It easily could have fitted on the head of a pin! These are a real, and large part of science. Someone talk to this boy.
Soup? What in the world are you talking about?

dad said:
You are wrong. This is yet another one of your claims you cannot support.

dad said:
I assure you, it is flimsy. Since you do not know, try closing the pie hole.
Again, you are wrong. They are not 'flimsy'. I suggest you actually study some science and learn.

dad said:
I must admit, I was thinking of the king of the nation there. But you gotta admit, it is something!
No, I don't have to admit anything, except to admit that you cannot support your claim - again.

dad said:
As for nations, pretty well all were foretold before they existed, as in Daniel 2. Medo Persia, Greece, Rome, and the final one, just before Jesus returns, headed by the devil incarnate, the antichrist.
Before they fell, the 'writing was on the wall'! Nations that soon invade Israel also we know. How man's history ends, and what comes next. Where Jesus was to be born, and the virgin birth, etc.
Still another claim you cannot support. Yawn.
 
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dad

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Nymphalidae said:
These discussions are all pointless because pretty soon I'm going to be living in my sky palace which is actually located in the center of the moon.
Only christians will walk those streets of gold. I don't see a cross icon on your setup. I suggest you get saved if you would like to join us. There is lots of room.
 
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dad

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Electric Sceptic said:
Then you thought wrong.


A two thousand year old book by authors unknown is lousy documentation.
[Is it? If you prefer a book not by authors, who will write it? The bible is much older than this anyhow, maybe you should try that one]


I have. Many claims are well known; claims that can actually be supported are non-existent.
[ The mayor of Colorado had his wife healed, by Aimee Semple McPherson, and declared a special day of prayer, I think it was, in gratitude. I am afraid you really did not look into this whole thing in a serious manner. To disbelieve it all is to be unfair. The acts are done to help people, not to promote man's present science, believe it or not, so don't get uptight if it gets left out of the loop.]

And still you avoid completely supporting your claim that the spiritual is testable.
[I think love is spiritual. Does love exist? How can we test it?]

A strange claim for somebody so religious.
[If you mean a bible believer, then I hope I would be to some extent. But to me, it is a word that brings to mind scribes and pharisees who had the savior killed]

Good, then you admit the religious do not rectify their errors. Science does.
[People are people. If they are believers in the physical only science, or the pope, or Allah. Science is not I think by and large, filled with dishonest people. I think most people involved in science would even agree with Einstein, that nuclear weapons should not be used. People in most churches also would likely not want to be the bad guys]

Soup? What in the world are you talking about?
[It is refered to as a hot soup in the early stages]


You are wrong. This is yet another one of your claims you cannot support.
[John talks of the creation as well, as do other books.]


Again, you are wrong. They are not 'flimsy'. I suggest you actually study some science and learn.
[OK, I'll bite. If the evidence for the first lifeform, as to how it appeared is not flimsy, then please show us here how solid it is]

Still another claim you cannot support. Yawn.
[and hath made thee ruler over them all. (Babylon) Thou art this head of gold. 39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, [Medes and persians -two arms of this image of a man in the dream) and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. (Greece -right near the sexual organs of the belly) 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. ( Rome ) 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. ( Present time, part democracy, part dictatorships) 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold;(Jesus returning, and taking over the world) the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. There we have the predicted nations to follow Babylon laid out. And other chapters provide more details, in case any should doubt.]
.
 
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Electric Sceptic

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dad said:
Is it? If you prefer a book not by authors, who will write it? The bible is much older than this anyhow, maybe you should try that one
No, the bible isn't much older than that. Many of the books are; the bible as a whole is actually less than that.

dad said:
The mayor of Colorado had his wife healed, by Aimee Semple McPherson, and declared a special day of prayer, I think it was, in gratitude. I am afraid you really did not look into this whole thing in a serious manner. To disbelieve it all is to be unfair. The acts are done to help people, not to promote man's present science, believe it or not, so don't get uptight if it gets left out of the loop.
To disbelieve it all until it is evidenced is rational; to note that there is no evidence is rational. Not a single documented 'miraculous healing' exists.

dad said:
I think love is spiritual. Does love exist? How can we test it?
You tell me. It's YOUR claim.

dad said:
If you mean a bible believer, then I hope I would be to some extent. But to me, it is a word that brings to mind scribes and pharisees who had the savior killed
I mean someone religious, which is precisely what I said. If you don't know what 'religious' means, consult any dictionary.

dad said:
It is refered to as a hot soup in the early stages
What is? Geez, man, try to make sense!

dad said:
John talks of the creation as well, as do other books.
That's the way, a nice vague 'rebuttal' containing absolutely nothing.

dad said:
OK, I'll bite. If the evidence for the first lifeform, as to how it appeared is not flimsy, then please show us here how solid it is]
Umm...no. Learn some science and find out.

dad said:
and hath made thee ruler over them all. (Babylon) Thou art this head of gold. 39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, [Medes and persians -two arms of this image of a man in the dream) and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. (Greece -right near the sexual organs of the belly) 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. ( Rome ) 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. ( Present time, part democracy, part dictatorships) 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold;(Jesus returning, and taking over the world) the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. There we have the predicted nations to follow Babylon laid out. And other chapters provide more details, in case any should doubt.]
All very interesting - nice interpretation by you. Sadly, it in no way supports your claim that the bible contains "Nations even named, predicted before they rose to power. Pretty well all major world powers as a matter of fact."

Don't feel bad. By now I'm used to you not supporting your claims.
 
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dad

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Electric Sceptic said:
No, the bible isn't much older than that.[Sorry you couldn't support your claims, it is older, though] Many of the books are; the bible as a whole is actually less than that.





To disbelieve it all until it is evidenced is rational; to note that there is no evidence is rational. Not a single documented 'miraculous healing' exists.

[Well, I accept the bible as a document. So we'll have to disagree.

Things like this probably would not help you.

http://www.geocities.com/meta_crock/other/miracles5.htm
Faith healings....
". But all the cases were either terminal or incurrable and all of them, within a year, returned to full health and pain free existences.

Dr. Richard Steiner, of the American Board of Pathology, head of department of Pathology Long Beach Community Hosptial reviwed several of the slides. William Olson, American Board of Internal Medicine and head of Isatope Department at Long Beach Community Hospital, and several radiologists form that Hospital also consulted on the rest of the cases."

Documented cases of the dead returning to tell all----
---The Science of the Paranormal

For more than fifteen years, Dr. Melvin Morse, a practicing pediatrician and renowned researcher, has studied the NDEs of hundreds of children. His bestsellers, Closer to the Light and Transformed by the Light, convinced millions that there is indeed something that lies beyond "bodily death" - and that NDEs profoundly transform peoples’ lives for the better. Now, Morse continues his compelling scientific probe into the mysteries of life and death - offering a bold and provocative new theory on what NDEs reveal about mind-body interactions, human memory, and the part of our brain that literally communicates with God." http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts06.html
Then there is the catholic stuff
The fully documented, miraculous cures, recognized by the Church and attributed to the intercession of Our Lady at the spring at Massabielle (Lourdes), which was discovered by St. Bernadette at Our Lady's request, are so numerous that they require no elaboration here. Suffice it to say that the Lourde's medical bureau is the world's foremost authority (in service to the Church) on miraculous cures: one of the first miraculous cures related to Lourdes, that of a man blind in one eye, due to heavy scar tissue, occurred soon after the apparitions began. The man's vision was restored completely, and according to his doctor it was a physical impossibility, since the scar tissue remained. The cures worked in bygone times focused attention principally upon their divine origin, but modern miraculous cures are studied by scientists for their own sake, for example by Mangin and Alexis Carrel, who came back many times to Lourdes in search of the secret of cellular multiplication in cures of wounds and fistulae. In addition, medical theses have been written about them. (83)
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/BrianE.html
Don't forget the New testament documentation

http://www.layhands.com/EveryExampleOfHealing.htm]





Umm...no. Learn some science and find out.

[No use, PO science can't tell you that, get a clue]





All very interesting - nice interpretation by you. Sadly, it in no way supports your claim that the bible contains "Nations even named, predicted before they rose to power. Pretty well all major world powers as a matter of fact."

I already said I had been thinking of the leader of the nation, Cyrus, named long long before he was born, or his country came to power even. His country was predicted, by the way, as those that came after it were as well! Yes pretty well all were predicted! The king of one even named! Alexander the great's rapid conquests also foretold, Jeus birthplace, and just scores and scores of things.

The kingdom to come after Babylon was named, as well

"

Da 5:28 PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. (this was when the hand wrote on the wall!) So, there you go, nations named, as well as kings, read'm and weep!)

 
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Electric Sceptic

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dad said:
Well, I accept the bible as a document. So we'll have to disagree.
I accept it as a document. What I don't do is accept it as an inerrant one, because the evidence is against such a belief.

dad said:
No use, PO science can't tell you that, get a clue
There is no other kind of science.

dad said:
I already said I had been thinking of the leader of the nation, Cyrus, named long long before he was born, or his country came to power even. His country was predicted, by the way, as those that came after it were as well! Yes pretty well all were predicted! The king of one even named! Alexander the great's rapid conquests also foretold, Jeus birthplace, and just scores and scores of things.
Great, so are you going to retract your false claim, then?
 
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