dad'd "Box"

[Electric Sceptic]

Show me which hypothesis about the supernatural.

Come on, dad. The balls' in your court. You've made a number of claims about the spiritual, and stated they're testable and repeatable. Come up with those repeatable tests.

 

[dad]

You're getting off the track. Firstly, stop complaining that these things aren't testable. It was YOUR claim that they are - a claim you've yet to support. Now you claim that with your 'Jesus' test, it's impossible NOT to get results...but you mightn't realise that you've got results. Surely you see that for the purposes of the test, this is indistinguishable from not getting results at all?

Don't bring up anecdotal stories about ghosts, or laughable 'prophets' like Dixon...stick to your claim of repeatable tests.

No, the results are guaranteed. Most see some immediate changes, or some fairly soon, and others see them over more time. Some are minimal, and some are drastic. Billy Graham, for example, knew that something had changed when he tried it. He didn't feel any different, but he knew. Saul (Paul) couldn't help but know, as it blinded him, and I think knocked him off his horse, and he heard Jesus, and saw the light. It's time tested, tried, and proven o'er and o'er.
The kind of repeatable tests are not the knid the PO scientific method generally look for, not being physical. Prayer for example. Some prayers have more intensity than others, and are aimed well at targets, therefore, woulf generate better results. But still it is a law of the spirit world that prayer works. Sometimes we do not see the answers, sometimes the answer is no! Sometimes it takes a little longer, sometimes He has answered before we physically call! Sometimes the answer is not the one we thought we wanted, but was the best for us, sometimes the person we pray for is a factor. But prayer always works! Try sticking that in a lab! Yet it is a law, and repeatable, and billions will verify it works, and millions have had physical evidence as well, like eyes that now work, bones not crippled, ears that hear, and such!
Lets say we put a possesed man in a lab. Lets say he was possesed with a female evil spirit. Let's say several strong christians came in, and cast it out. Do you have some electrodes or something that can tell? No, your Po hasn't a clue, and is in no position to even ask for it!!!!!!!
How many spirits are in the lab right now, or the school library? How do you know? The hard work some scientists do, say on a nuclear submarine, the new ideas some of them come up with-where did they come from? Inside their head? How do you know? Can you prove it? One guy I heard for example had an after death experience, and came back. He told of seeing people working on a submarine system, and wathing them, also seeing many spirits hovering over them, talking to them, telling them things! They couldn't see or hear them, but responded by receiving the ideas. Lots to study in your lab for you!!!!!!

 

[Electric Sceptic]

No, the results are guaranteed. Most see some immediate changes, or some fairly soon, and others see them over more time. Some are minimal, and some are drastic. Billy Graham, for example, knew that something had changed when he tried it. He didn't feel any different, but he knew. Saul (Paul) couldn't help but know, as it blinded him, and I think knocked him off his horse, and he heard Jesus, and saw the light. It's time tested, tried, and proven o'er and o'er.

Sorry, but it was YOU that claimed that these things were repeatable and testable. Now we find out they're not testable at all. You say that (for example) 'Billy Graham, for example, knew that something had changed when he tried it. He didn't feel any different, but he knew.' That is in no way testable. To be testable something must have verifiable results..."I know it did something" is not a verifiable result.

The kind of repeatable tests are not the knid the PO scientific method generally look for, not being physical. Prayer for example. Some prayers have more intensity than others, and are aimed well at targets, therefore, woulf generate better results. But still it is a law of the spirit world that prayer works. Sometimes we do not see the answers, sometimes the answer is no! Sometimes it takes a little longer, sometimes He has answered before we physically call! Sometimes the answer is not the one we thought we wanted, but was the best for us, sometimes the person we pray for is a factor. But prayer always works! Try sticking that in a lab! Yet it is a law, and repeatable, and billions will verify it works, and millions have had physical evidence as well, like eyes that now work, bones not crippled, ears that hear, and such!

The kind of repeatable tests are the kind that YOU said could be done. But you haven't provided any.

Lets say we put a possesed man in a lab. Lets say he was possesed with a female evil spirit. Let's say several strong christians came in, and cast it out. Do you have some electrodes or something that can tell? No, your Po hasn't a clue, and is in no position to even ask for it!!!!!!!

Then it's not testable, and your statement that it was was false.

How many spirits are in the lab right now, or the school library? How do you know? The hard work some scientists do, say on a nuclear submarine, the new ideas some of them come up with-where did they come from? Inside their head? How do you know? Can you prove it? One guy I heard for example had an after death experience, and came back. He told of seeing people working on a submarine system, and wathing them, also seeing many spirits hovering over them, talking to them, telling them things! They couldn't see or hear them, but responded by receiving the ideas. Lots to study in your lab for you!!!!!!

Nope, nothing to study in a lab, because you wont' give us any repeatable tests, despite claiming such exists.

 

[dad]

The kind of repeatable tests are the kind that YOU said could be done. But you haven't provided any

They are repeated all the time. They don't fit in the box, though. Really, it is silly to expect the PO scientific method to be able to test it's way out of a paper bag when it comes to spiritual things. I have mentioned some spiritual laws that are tested all the time, and work. They are things of the spirit, and not of the flesh, or physical only.
The test tube is us. We can't drag God into a lab. We can test Him however, with the rules He sets up.
Mal 3:10 - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Here, it tells us if we give Him our tithes, and not be chinsy, He will more than repay. Lots of people have proved this. He is testable, and likes being put to the test. He isn't much intested in the so called scientific method for the physical only, carnally minded folks. That is not the way to learn of the spirit, only the physical. Supernatural operates under it's own rules, and spirits can not just appear to us for no reason. In a lab or not. Like physics, there are a set of rules. If you listen real hard, and it's real quiet, and you mention the scientific method, you just might hear the faint noise of a spirit laughing.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

They are repeated all the time. They don't fit in the box, though. Really, it is silly to expect the PO scientific method to be able to test it's way out of a paper bag when it comes to spiritual things.

Okay, now it's the whole scientific method that is 'PO'? Are you serious? You want to include your spiritual into your new spiriscience, but it doesn't have to follow the scientific method? Now that's precisely why spiriscience is a pseudo-science, not a science. You claim all sorts of repeatability and testability, and when it comes down to it, you want to abandon the scientific method and expect us to believe your claims without repeated testability (and no, don't bother claiming they're repeated all the time. They're not repeated and testable as you well know).

I have mentioned some spiritual laws that are tested all the time, and work. They are things of the spirit, and not of the flesh, or physical only.

No, they don't work. I've tried 'em, and they all failed.

Now, since your spiriscience doesn't follow the scientific method and there's no way to actually validate any results, my claim that they all failed is precisely as valid as your claim that they all work. See, that's why the scientific method has repeatable, verifiable tests. Since your spirscience doesn't have them, it's not any kind of science. It's just religious belief.

So, now that we've established that your spiriscience doesn't follow the scientific method, we're getting a pretty clear picture of what it is. Basically, it's just science plus your particular religious belief. We don't need to consider the spiritual when we're just using the science bit to do perfectly ordinary things that your'e comfortable with, like making your TV work or designing a computer. It's only when science infringes on your religious beliefs that you want to bring in the 'spiri' part of 'spiriscience'. And, of course, you don't have any quantifiable way to do so. You just want to say, at a given point "Well, what science tells us there is wrong, that's where the spiritual comes in." No accountability, no testability, just your word, based on your interpretation of the bible. Of course, all the people in the world who believe in the spiritual but don't believe in your interpretation of your holy text can go jump. So, for that matter, can science, since it gets suspended whenever you feel like it.

Honestly, dad, if you want to get any credibility for any sort of an amalgamation of science and the spiritual, you'll have to do a lot better than this.

 

[dad]

Okay, now it's the whole scientific method that is 'PO'?

Physical only is what that particular method is based on.

You claim all sorts of repeatability and testability, and when it comes down to it, you want to abandon the scientific method ..

The method is not designed for the spiritual, and is applicable only for the physical world, don't try to make it apply to God, any more than a polygraph test! He set up the methods for testing the spiritual Himself. Move over rover, let the Almighty take over!

No, they don't work. I've tried 'em, and they all failed

Oh my. So you tried to get saved, but found what?

We don't need to consider the spiritual when we're just using the science bit to do perfectly ordinary things that your'e comfortable with, like making your TV work or designing a computer. It's only when science infringes on your religious beliefs that you want to bring in the 'spiri' part of 'spiriscience'

Well, where PO takes a dive, is when it tries to venture way out where it don't belong, into a land where the spirit was merged with the physical. Perhaps even more important than spirystics, is the study of the merged physical and spiritual! No one has a name for this yet, thet I ever heard of anyhow. Anyone got a good one? Perhaps mergeology? ( far better then mere geology!) Or a lttle more exalted sounding 'Merged sciences'? What about 'true science'? Anyhow, you catch the drift.

Of course, all the people in the world who believe in the spiritual but don't believe in your interpretation of your holy text can go jump

On the contrary, they will all benefit from the newfound insignificance of physical only belief. When the ring is cleared of them, may the best Man win.
I think there is a lot to most of those things anyhow. Like the natives believed in a Great Spirit. No, it is POers that so often mock them, and what they believe, not bible believers.

No accountability, no testability, just your word, based on your interpretation of the bible

Most of these things, really are not open to much interpretation, like God is a spirit, He made man, He promises eternal life, angels, demons, heaven, He planted a garden, men lived near a thousand years, but will, if we believe in Jesus live forever, He rose from the dead, and had a spiritual/physical body, etc etc.! I have explained as well it's testability operates outside the realms of the physical, but is absolute, and certain.

Honestly, dad, if you want to get any credibility for any sort of an amalgamation of science and the spiritual, you'll have to do a lot better than this.

Credit? Ha. I think we might have to wait till we take over the world to really get all that right. My faint hopes on this forum is for some christians to realize they were duped, snap out of it, and take their rightful place as keepers of the sacred flame, get back to believeing the truth of His word, and protect as many children from this faith robbing, anti God PO fables as possible. Understand that your faith is every bit as evidenced, and real, and valid (even more so) as so called science's rigid faith (enforced faith in schools as well) in the Po!!

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Physical only is what that particular method is based on.

What what 'particular method' is based on? The scientific method? No, it's not. It's not based on physical only or anything only.

The method is not designed for the spiritual, and is applicable only for the physical world, don't try to make it apply to God, any more than a polygraph test! He set up the methods for testing the spiritual Himself. Move over rover, let the Almighty take over!

It's designed for the acquiring and testing of knowledge. If there is spiritual knowledge that is testable, it is testable via the scientific method. Sadly (for your case), any spiritual knowledge that exists isn't testable.

Oh my. So you tried to get saved, but found what?

Now nothing. I recognised the 'spiritual' for the illusion it is.

Well, where PO takes a dive, is when it tries to venture way out where it don't belong, into a land where the spirit was merged with the physical. Perhaps even more important than spirystics, is the study of the merged physical and spiritual! No one has a name for this yet, thet I ever heard of anyhow. Anyone got a good one? Perhaps mergeology? ( far better then mere geology!) Or a lttle more exalted sounding 'Merged sciences'? What about 'true science'? Anyhow, you catch the drift.

PO doesn't take a dive, because it doesn't try to venture out where it don't belong. That's been covered many, many times in this thread. Science addresses the physical; that's all it can address. It does this because the physical is the only method accesible via the scientific method. And that's for precisely the reason you can't come up with any repeatable tests - because the spiritual isn't testable. Which is why it's no part of science.

On the contrary, they will all benefit from the newfound insignificance of physical only belief. When the ring is cleared of them, may the best Man win.

The best man has won. Science has proven itself time and again the best tool for finding out about our world.

I think there is a lot to most of those things anyhow. Like the natives believed in a Great Spirit. No, it is POers that so often mock them, and what they believe, not bible believers.

I don't know what a 'POer' is.

Most of these things, really are not open to much interpretation, like God is a spirit, He made man, He promises eternal life, angels, demons, heaven, He planted a garden, men lived near a thousand years, but will, if we believe in Jesus live forever, He rose from the dead, and had a spiritual/physical body, etc etc.! I have explained as well it's testability operates outside the realms of the physical, but is absolute, and certain.

No, you have CLAIMed it's testable, but you have been completely unable to come up with even a single valid test for anything in the spiritual realm, confirming that it has no place in science.

Credit? Ha. I think we might have to wait till we take over the world to really get all that right.

"Credit"? No, "Credible". You do know the difference, don't you?

My faint hopes on this forum is for some christians to realize they were duped, snap out of it, and take their rightful place as keepers of the sacred flame, get back to believeing the truth of His word, and protect as many children from this faith robbing, anti God PO fables as possible.

I think you better lift your game quite a lot if you ever want to convince anyone of anything on this subject.

And I don't know any "anti God PO fables".

Understand that your faith is every bit as evidenced, and real, and valid (even more so) as so called science's rigid faith (enforced faith in schools as well) in the Po!!

I have no faith, in anything. Nor does science. Nor does it enforce anything in schools.

Climb out of your box, dad, and rejoin the real world.

 

[dad]

What what 'particular method' is based on? The scientific method? No, it's not. It's not based on physical only or anything only

The scientific method, then, is founded upon direct observation of the world around us
++ You cannot observe anything usually but the physical universe, so it is based on it. If observations of miracles count, or prophesies, angels, then thats different!

Sadly (for your case), any spiritual knowledge that exists isn't testable.

Not to those of you who cannot observe it

Science addresses the physical; that's all it can address.

But if it was the merge at work in the past or future, and we base everything only on as if it was always just like we now observe, physical only, then it actually sticks it's PO nose where it does not belong. Only in imagination would the universe really shrink down to a speck, it's just that they can't see the merge, so didn't have the good sense to stop imagining expansion thousands of years ago, rather than gettin silly about it. Inapplicable, overzealous belief!

The best man has won. Science has proven itself time and again the best tool for finding out about our world

Physical world, yes. Past merged universe, no. Future merged universe, with heaven, no. Not a good tool at all, actually for that. In fact, a total flop.

I don't know what a 'POer' is.

Someone who believes only in the physical. Physical Only.

No, you have CLAIMed it's testable, but you have been completely unable to come up with even a single valid test for anything in the spiritual realm

When pointed to the way to test spiritual things, you revert to seeking physical evidence. It is repeatable in that it is repeated over and over. But it goes on His timetable, according to situation and need, not according to some test man devises.

And I don't know any "anti God PO fables".

Evolution and the big bang. The sun burning out, or The universe being billions of years old, based on an assumption of an only physical is real belief.

I have no faith, in anything. Nor does science. Nor does it enforce anything in schools.

Oh yes it does! It is based on the belief that only the physical exists, or matters or affected our orgins. Teaching evolution in schools is by law in most places, and education in many countries is not optional, but by force of law! The parents go to jail if they do not send kids to school! So many places do not allow the teaching of creation, or even the bible or prayer in schools.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

The scientific method, then, is founded upon direct observation of the world around us

Yes, it is.

You cannot observe anything usually but the physical universe, so it is based on it. If observations of miracles count, or prophesies, angels, then thats different!

That's nice.

Not to those of you who cannot observe it

You've had ample chance to show how it's testable. You said it was. You repeatedly claimed it was. You've been totally unable to show that it is.

But if it was the merge at work in the past or future, and we base everything only on as if it was always just like we now observe, physical only, then it actually sticks it's PO nose where it does not belong. Only in imagination would the universe really shrink down to a speck, it's just that they can't see the merge, so didn't have the good sense to stop imagining expansion thousands of years ago, rather than gettin silly about it. Inapplicable, overzealous belief!

Does this paragraph come with English subtitles?

Physical world, yes. Past merged universe, no. Future merged universe, with heaven, no. Not a good tool at all, actually for that. In fact, a total flop.

Too funny...a 'total flop'...better turn off your computer, stop driving your car, go back to living in a cave, hypocrite.

Someone who believes only in the physical. Physical Only.

Nothing to do with science, then.

When pointed to the way to test spiritual things, you revert to seeking physical evidence. It is repeatable in that it is repeated over and over. But it goes on His timetable, according to situation and need, not according to some test man devises.

You've pointed out no way whatsoever to test spiritual things. You claimed you could; you've failed. Nor have I asked for physical evidence. YOU made the claim; you have completely failed to support it.

Evolution and the big bang. The sun burning out, or The universe being billions of years old, based on an assumption of an only physical is real belief.

Except that none of those are 'anti-god' or 'PO'.

Oh yes it does! It is based on the belief that only the physical exists, or matters or affected our orgins.

Apparently you don't know the difference between faith and belief. And no, it's not "based on the belief that only the physical exists, or matters or affected our orgins." Next falsehood?

Teaching evolution in schools is by law in most places, and education in many countries is not optional, but by force of law! The parents go to jail if they do not send kids to school! So many places do not allow the teaching of creation, or even the bible or prayer in schools.

You cannot name a single place that does not allow the teaching of creation, or even of the teaching of creationism pseudoscience.

You cannot name a single place that does not allow the bible in schools.

You cannot name a single place that does not allow prayer in schools.

 

[nvxplorer]

You're missing the third universal dimension, dad. The spiri-fizizzical. Rap artists detect this dimension of reality all the time. The evidence is in their lyrics. Check it out.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

dad,

You seem to be a little...inconsistent in your position. You have repeatedly claimed that the spiritual is testable and repeatable. But then you claim that the spiritual isn't approachable via the scientific method. Yet repeatable testability is the core of the scientific method. If something isn't approachable via the scientific method, it's not testable and repeatable. Conversely, if something is testable and repeatable, it's approachable via the scientific method.

So which is it...is the spiritual testable and repeatable, and consequently approachable via the scientific method, or is it not testable and repeatable, and consequently not approachable via the scientific method?

Now, if it is testable and repeatable (as you have claimed), then you should be able to show some repeatable tests for it. You've attempted to do this for one particular spiritual claim (that asking Jesus into your life actually has an effect), but your attempt was badly flawed. You repeatedly stated that if you ask Jesus into your life, you WOULD get a result...but you were unable to specify what that result was. You even stated that no result might be discernable until after death! This makes me think you don't know what 'testable' means in this context. Let me give you an example, using science.

I claim that the force of gravity at sea level on our planet is 9.8 m/s^2. To support this, I propose a simple experiment. Drop a weight from a height of ten metres at (approximately) sea level. It should take slightly over one second to hit the ground. This test is repeatable by anyone, at any time. Every time it is performed and the weight does take slightly over one second to hit the ground, the claim gets a bit more support. Conversely, if at any time the weight takes (say) half a second, or two seconds to hit the ground, the claim is falsified. This test encompasses the core of the scientific method - a hypothethesis (force of gravity is 9.8 m/s^2 at sea level), an experiment (drop a weight from ten metres), expected results (weight takes just over a second to hit the ground), and conclusions (hypothesis either supported or falsified by the actual results). This is what testable means in this context. Anything that is testable in similar fashion is approachable via the scientific method.

Now, is the spiritual testable in this fashion? Note that your famous 'physical only' objection doesn't work here. There are no reasons why the expected results need be physical. For example, if you were to claim that, after inviting Jesus into your life, people will experience a supreme feeling of peace and tranquility, that would be valid (and obviously not physical). It would be rather subjective and difficult to quantify, but it would be something. It would be an expected result. If you can't provide a meaningful expected result (ie., more than 'something will happen, sometime'), then it's not testable. The same applies to all your other claims of 'spiritual laws' that are inviolate. What are they, and how do we test them?

Now, if it's not testable, my question is just how does your 'spiriscience' work? What does it achieve? For example, how does it tell us that evolutionary theory is false? Science tells us evolutionary theory is true; how does 'spiriscience' work to tell us differently? Is 'spiriscience' anything more than 'science until my interpretation of the bible is contradicted by it, and then my interpretation of the bible'? Remember, you are the one putting forward this 'spiriscience', wanting to teach it to children, and so forth - it's quite reasonable for me to ask exactly what it is and how it works.

 

[dad]

Yes, it is. [And that means only physical observation, as you can't see spiritual]


You've had ample chance to show how it's testable. You said it was. You repeatedly claimed it was. You've been totally unable to show that it is.
[It is not testable by severely limited physical only deciples, who insist only on their own only physical way, to measure spiritual things. That requires a different way of operating]


Does this paragraph come with English subtitles? [I'll have to condense it for you. The reason they think the universe was condensed into a little speck, is because of a few things. One of them is that it is now expanding, sp they reverse extrapolate, and see how it would have reverse expanded in their imagined billions of years. They come up wit the universe in a speck, and think they are really wizs]


Too funny...a 'total flop'...better turn off your computer, stop driving your car, go back to living in a cave, hypocrite. [Nasty. Science is my slave, I'll use it, as needed, and thank God for the good things He allowed man to be inspired to discover, despite his thickness. And you can lump it]


Nothing to do with science, then. [ Haven't you heard it admitted many times here on this forum? Science (box variety) is based only on the physical.]


You've pointed out no way whatsoever to test spiritual things. You claimed you could; you've failed. Nor have I asked for physical evidence. YOU made the claim; you have completely failed to support it. [ You test them His way]


Except that none of those are 'anti-god' or 'PO'. [ Are you kidding? The sun is only going to burn out, they say, brcause of the way the physical processes now work. After billions of years, it would lead to death of the sun. Based on onlyphysical. This is not what God teaches us. It will last forever. Therefore teaching it will burn out is very anti God. etc]

You cannot name a single place that does not allow the teaching of creation, or even of the teaching of creationism pseudoscience. [ Really? Can you tell me some places where in a public school, which kids, unless rich, or whatever, are compelled to attend, can learn that creation was actually just like the bible says, and true, and that granny actually it's just some story? Can you show me the places bible and prayer are done every morning, and children are encouraged to have faith in the God we trust? Can you show me the place where evolution is taught only in religion classes, and creation is taught as knowledge? etc]

You cannot name a single place that does not allow the bible in schools.
[Where, hidden in underwear? Or put in the science teacher's face?]

You cannot name a single place that does not allow prayer in schools.
[ Prayer to some moment of silence, or private god? What about the Lord's prayer that was tossed out? What about prayer for the day, and naming names as to who we pray to? No, this is for another thread. I read often in case after case, how christmas plays, christmas music, the Lord's pryer, and yes, bibles have been forbidden in places. Here is a nice poem for you.

The Warning
Take not the crosses from our graves

Of we, who died for you

And take not Him, Whose cross it was

From our children's schools



The time of which all prophets spake

Has come, it's not just near

Ten billion soldiers stand in line

Their warning's very clear



If you, with treachery, repay

Our children, who now live

We'll fight you from death's very doors

For this, we'll not forgive.



And this war won't be in vain,

When we, with Jesus, come

On fierce steeds, to take the earth

From us you shall not run!

.

 

[dad]

You're missing the third universal dimension, dad. The spiri-fizizzical. Rap artists detect this dimension of reality all the time. The evidence is in their lyrics. Check it out.

Actually, it is simply spiritual.

 

[zilch]

as you can't see spiritual

So how can we know that this spiritual world is not fictional stories that you have made real all in your head?

Because right now your method for observing the spiritual world looks like one big snipe hunt.

Are you kidding? The sun is only going to burn out, they say, brcause of the way the physical processes now work. After billions of years, it would lead to death of the sun. Based on onlyphysical. This is not what God teaches us. It will last forever.

People also used to say that God taught that the Earth is at the center of the solar system and that the Earth is flat. It was science that showed this to be wrong, considering this it would appear that science has the better track record when it comes to the solar system.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Yes, it is. [And that means only physical observation, as you can't see spiritual]

No, it doesn't. Sight is not the only means of perception humans have.

It is not testable by severely limited physical only deciples, who insist only on their own only physical way, to measure spiritual things. That requires a different way of operating

It's not testable any way. You've had your chance to show how it is; you've failed.

I'll have to condense it for you. The reason they think the universe was condensed into a little speck, is because of a few things. One of them is that it is now expanding, sp they reverse extrapolate, and see how it would have reverse expanded in their imagined billions of years. They come up wit the universe in a speck, and think they are really wizs

Yup.

Nasty. Science is my slave, I'll use it, as needed, and thank God for the good things He allowed man to be inspired to discover, despite his thickness. And you can lump it

So you use it, and thank god for it, but it's a 'total flop'? You're not even making sense.

Haven't you heard it admitted many times here on this forum? Science (box variety) is based only on the physical.

Which has nothing to do with your nonsense.

You test them His way

No, you don't test them in ANY way. You've been asked to show a way; you've failed.

Are you kidding? The sun is only going to burn out, they say, brcause of the way the physical processes now work. After billions of years, it would lead to death of the sun. Based on onlyphysical. This is not what God teaches us. It will last forever. Therefore teaching it will burn out is very anti God. etc

Sorry, but 'anti-dad's particular interpretation of one particular part of one particular religious text' does not equate to 'anti-god'.

Really? Can you tell me some places where in a public school, which kids, unless rich, or whatever, are compelled to attend, can learn that creation was actually just like the bible says, and true, and that granny actually it's just some story? Can you show me the places bible and prayer are done every morning, and children are encouraged to have faith in the God we trust? Can you show me the place where evolution is taught only in religion classes, and creation is taught as knowledge? etc]

Sorry, but it's up to YOU to name a place where it is illegal to teach creation or creationism. That's your claim; yet another one you can't support.

Where, hidden in underwear? Or put in the science teacher's face?

Once again, it's YOUR claim; support it.

Prayer to some moment of silence, or private god? What about the Lord's prayer that was tossed out? What about prayer for the day, and naming names as to who we pray to? No, this is for another thread. I read often in case after case, how christmas plays, christmas music, the Lord's pryer, and yes, bibles have been forbidden in places.

For the third time, it's YOUR claim; you support it. You haven't, and can't.

 

[Numenor]

dad's whole assertion that the spiritual world, including God himself, is subject to some kind of repeatable tests is completely unbiblical.

"Do not put the Lord your God to the test" - Matt 4:7 & Deut 6:16

I just hope people here have realised by now that dad speaks entirely for himself and nobody else in Christendom.

 

[dad]

dad's whole assertion that the spiritual world, including God himself, is subject to some kind of repeatable tests is completely unbiblical.

"Do not put the Lord your God to the test" - Matt 4:7 & Deut 6:16

I just hope people here have realised by now that dad speaks entirely for himself and nobody else in Christendom.

He was saying to the devil in Matthew that the punk shouldn't tempt Him. How could you be so far afield? I already showed how He likes to be tested and proved. You cannot dispute it, and I've seldom seen such a silly, unspiritual, lame attempt. Hardly worthy of a response, but since kids might read it, I guess I better [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ip the artillary, in case you peep up any more.

 

[dad]

Sorry, but 'anti-dad's particular interpretation of one particular part of one particular religious text' does not equate to 'anti-god'.

OK, lets look at this. Are you saying that the sun will burn out, or that it will never burn out and die?

 

[dad]

So you use it, and thank god for it, but it's a 'total flop'? You're not even making sense. (science)

I use it, yes/ It is not a total flop at all. My beef is with WOMD, and abotion, and cloning, and some of these misuses of it, and especially it's dreams of old ages based on PO processes. In other words, where it opposes God's word. The run of the mill stuff, is pretty neutral, and like apple pie, -good in moderation.

 

[dad]

So how can we know that this spiritual world is not fictional stories that you have made real all in your head?

Because right now your method for observing the spiritual world looks like one big snipe hunt.



People also used to say that God taught that the Earth is at the center of the solar system and that the Earth is flat. It was science that showed this to be wrong, considering this it would appear that science has the better track record when it comes to the solar system.

Not that the earth is flat. Thats a popular misconception, and you ought to hold whoever's feet to the fire who taught you that. The earth will be the center of the universe, as it was. You will see this when the new heaven is revealed, and we see not just the physical part of things. It is only thought to be wrong as measured by blind, deaf and dumb physical only abilities to measure and see. So, as far as our solar system goes, yes, we in science do have a pretty good grasp of it in many ways. But this takes nothing away from the bible.