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anyathesword

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No, it is because theists can be extremely obnoxious and incorrect. Please don't try to use untruths to defend your actions.

quote]Why don't you guys spend the same amount of time tearing down the Greek myths? Or the Quran?

Whatever evidence is presented, you will not agree or accept it. The Bible needs to be studied, not read superficially.[/QUOTE]

Because those religions are not a threat to education or the rights of people in the countries that we live in. Perhaps in France the Muslims are more of a threat. They are not much of a threat at all in the U.S., England or other English speaking countries.[/QUOTE]

Ezekiel 26
7 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. 12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.

Read the passage. Why does it began with Nebuchadnezzar as HE till verse 12? Then why does it change to THEY? Who destroyed the walls and threw the rubble into the sea? Then built a causeway to the island Tyre? Alexander the Great!

January to July 332 BC, Alexander held a 7 month siege against Tyre. He build a causeway from the rubble fulfilling the prophecy. Now this causeway is where fishers lay their nets. Another fulfillment of prophecy.
Lucius Flavius Arrainus gives account of what happened. Tyre was destroyed and the people put into slavery.

"Alexander did far more against Tyre than Shalmenezar or NEbuchadnezzar had done. Not content with crushing her, he took care that she never should revive; for he founded Alexandria as her substitute, and forever changed the track of the commerce of the world." (Creasy, The Fifteen Decisive Battles of the World, 72)

"The modern city of Tyre is of modest size and is near the ancient site, though not identical to it. Archeological photographs of the ancient site show ruins from ancient Tyre scattered over many acres of land. No city has been rebuilt over these ruins, however, in fulfillment of this prophecy." (Dennis and Grudem, Tyre, The ESV study Bible)

"In point of fact, the Mainland city of Tyre was rebuilt and assumed some of it's former importance during the Hellenistic Period. But as for the island city, it apparently sank below the surface of the Meditteranean..all that remains of it is a series of Black Reefs offshore from Tyre, which surely could not have been there in the first and second millenia BC since they pose such a threat to navigation. The promontory that now juts out from the coastline probably was washed up along the barrier of Alexanders causeway. But the island itself broke off and sank away when the subsidence took place, and we have no evidence at all that it was ever built up again after Alexanders terrible act of vengeance."
http://www.padfield.com/acrobat/history/tyre.pdf
 
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PsychoSarah

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Some people try to convince me that statements like "there shall be doubters" are prophecies. I am glad you don't consider them such. Also, how does the talking serpent being anything, satan or something else, beyond a serpent make it more believable?
 
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anyathesword

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The ability to persuade and twist words and have the power of suggestion and changing people's mind and will.

A snake can't do that, can it?
 
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anyathesword

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anyathesword, your last post looks like it was mostly a jumbled quote of my post.

What were you trying to say?

I don't know, I was quite lost myself when I did not see anything that I wrote in the post. I don't know what happened. Sorry about that.
 
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anyathesword

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Would you agree with me that there is SOME evidence, even if it isn't solid, that there was a Flood? Or are you totally sure there is NO evidence whatsoever for the Flood?

(But we should probably take this topic elsewhere...)
 
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PsychoSarah

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The ability to persuade and twist words and have the power of suggestion and changing people's mind and will.

A snake can't do that, can it?

A serpent, not a snake, the serpent could have been a dragon, a lizard, perhaps a snake, although its punishment to crawl on its belly suggests that it had legs prior to tempting Eve.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Would you agree with me that there is SOME evidence, even if it isn't solid, that there was a Flood? Or are you totally sure there is NO evidence whatsoever for the Flood?

(But we should probably take this topic elsewhere...)

There is evidence which, if taken and interpreted very selectively, could indicate a Flood.

However, there is also evidence which must be ignored or dismissed because it should not be there if the Flood had occurred.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Would you agree with me that there is SOME evidence, even if it isn't solid, that there was a Flood? Or are you totally sure there is NO evidence whatsoever for the Flood?

(But we should probably take this topic elsewhere...)

No. There is evidence that there have been small floods in our past. There is no evidence that supports the Biblical Flood.

For example at one time it was thought that sedimentary rocks were evidence for the Flood. A closer examination showed that not to be the case. Since we know better not they are no longer evidence for the Flood.
 
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Subduction Zone

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And back to Tyre. Yes, Tyre was attacked many times over the years. But it was a target before the prophecy. Since it was going to get attacked anyway that means the pose Nebby attacks are not valid.

And even if they were valid, which they clearly aren't, the prophecy still has not been fulfilled. The island was never to be found again. It was never to be built upon again. It has been rebuilt and I showed it to you on a map. The prophecy failed.

Lastly you need to look at who the prophecy was aimed at. It was clearly aimed at the people of Tyre at that time. Ezekiel want to put the fear of God into those people. Since the prophecy failed, and even Ezekiel admitted as much, those people were not too impressed.
 
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morningstar2651

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I find that the prophecies rely on vagueness and aren't used to predict events before they happen. Instead they are interpreted after an event to provide justification that Christians "knew that would happen!" It's like how people claim Nostradamus predicted 9/11 or any other event.

Take this derail about Chernobyl in the Bible for example. A poster claims that the Bible predicted the nuclear incident in Chernobyl.

I respond by wondering why nobody that read the Bible tried to evacuate Chernobyl or alert the world about what would happen. What use is a prediction that doesn't predict something before it happens?
 
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morningstar2651

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The ability to persuade and twist words and have the power of suggestion and changing people's mind and will.

A snake can't do that, can it?

Snakes lack the anatomy to speak. No vocal chords.
 
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bhsmte

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Vagueness is correct and there is an abundance of it with prophecy believers.

This is why, you don't see the more intellectual Christian apologists (those who accept overwhelming scientific evidence) use prophecies as part of their argument, because they can be debunked quite easily.
 
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anyathesword

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A serpent, not a snake, the serpent could have been a dragon, a lizard, perhaps a snake, although its punishment to crawl on its belly suggests that it had legs prior to tempting Eve.

This passage you can use as symbolism. Snake is a description of the way Satan is. Jesus is the Lamb of God, right? But He isn't a lamb, as far as I can tell.

So it really wasn't an animal that was talking to Eve. It was Satan who really appeared to her. He is also described as a Dragon in Révélations and a beast. However he is an angelic being, but an evil one.
 
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anyathesword

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There is evidence which, if taken and interpreted very selectively, could indicate a Flood.

However, there is also evidence which must be ignored or dismissed because it should not be there if the Flood had occurred.

Yes!!! Exactly! So there is no definite 'it never happened'. There IS evidence but on top of this we have confusing evidence showing that the Flood does not make sense.
 
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Loudmouth

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Yes!!! Exactly! So there is no definite 'it never happened'. There IS evidence but on top of this we have confusing evidence showing that the Flood does not make sense.

Short of pretending that we live in a Matrix-type world, there is definite evidence. We have hundreds of thousands of uninterrupted annual ice layers, as one example.
 
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