curious

[L.J.]

I have been looking at calvinism and was wondering when does a person know that he is saved? If a person thinks he is saved and doesn't have the fruit of the spirit then he is not saved right?
I am asking this because i have been "saved" for 4 years. But even though i show flashes of the spirit, i still have outbursts of anger, still lust, and curse when angry.
I am worried I'm not saved.
L.J.

 

[James1979]

It's a good possibility that you might not be saved. One way to tell if you're a saved is if you find in your life having a delight in the law of God and that you love God with all of your whole entire being. But the word love in the bible has nothing to do with what you feel or some type of emotion. Love in the bible has to do with your actions and those actions are keeping his commandments, you have to be a hearer and a doer and if you're both a hearer and doer, not just a hearer, then you should find in your life that sin in your life should be less seen in your life as righteousness should be fruitful in your life (keeping his commandments, any and all of them that are relative to our day in time)

 

[heymikey80]

I have been looking at calvinism and was wondering when does a person know that he is saved? If a person thinks he is saved and doesn't have the fruit of the spirit then he is not saved right?
I am asking this because i have been "saved" for 4 years. But even though i show flashes of the spirit, i still have outbursts of anger, still lust, and curse when angry.
I am worried I'm not saved.
L.J.

Really -- while you can look at yourself over the course of time and identify the work of the Spirit of God in your life -- the focus is not on you.

It's on Him.

Your growth in knowledge whether you're saved doesn't come from inspecting your life and counting up the times you sin. That's a common presumption, but it comes from the shallow medieval period where everything was something you could do for yourself.

Your submission to Christ's commands improves your knowledge that you're saved, because you come to know Christ Jesus more and more, and you recognize the implications of relying on Him to be more and more stable and secure.

cf 1 John 2:2. We realize we've really come to know Christ, because we are doing what Christ commands. So our relationship with Christ has grown. And so our relationship with Christ is easier for us to recognize as being with Christ, being real, and being with us.

As we live in this creation today, though, we will always be dogged by sin. (1 John 1:8,10) The important thing is to leave that sin and recognize it's a dog, and not a master of us. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Rom 6:14

So the issue revolves back to: who do you actually rely on? "Who do you love?"

 

[RisingSpirit]

Really -- while you can look at yourself over the course of time and identify the work of the Spirit of God in your life -- the focus is not on you.

It's on Him.

Lots of Me-isms out there.
Me mE ME me ...
So many that many thinks it's about them and they worry about themselves just about all the time. Worship to me means praising God but of course you're doing the praising. Appears that the praiser is saved or he would care to praise.

Forget me, I'd rather be praising God.

 

[Tallen]

I would point you to the Westminster Confession of Faith.

Chapter XVIII:

Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation

18:1 Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes, and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of God, and estate of salvation (Deu_29:9; Job_8:13, Job_8:14; Mic_3:11; Joh_8:41); which hope of theirs shall perish (Mat_7:22, Mat_7:23): yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace (1Jo_2:3; 1Jo_3:14, 1Jo_3:18, 1Jo_3:19, 1Jo_3:21, 1Jo_3:24; 1Jo_5:13), and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed (Rom_5:2, Rom_5:5).

18:2 This certainly is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope (Heb_6:11, Heb_6:19); but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation (Heb_6:17, Heb_6:18), the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made (2Co_1:12; 2Pe_1:4, 2Pe_1:5, 2Pe_1:10, 2Pe_1:11; 1Jo_2:3; 1Jo_3:14), the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God (Rom_8:15, Rom_8:16): which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption (2Co_1:21, 2Co_1:22; Eph_1:13, Eph_1:14; Eph_4:30).

18:3 This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be a partaker of it (Psa_77:1-12; 88:1-18; Isa_1:10; Mar_9:24; 1Jo_5:13): yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto (1Co_2:12; Eph_3:17-19; Heb_6:11, Heb_6:12; 1Jo_4:13). And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure (2Pe_1:10); that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurance (Psa_4:6, Psa_4:7; Psa_119:32; Eph_1:3, Eph_1:4; Rom_5:1, Rom_5:2, Rom_5:5; Rom_14:17; Rom_15:13): so far is it from inclining men to looseness (Psa_130:4; Joh_3:2, Joh_3:3; Rom_6:1, Rom_6:2; Rom_8:1, Rom_8:12;1Co_7:1; Tit_2:11, Tit_2:12, Tit_2:14; 1Jo_1:6, 1Jo_1:7; 1Jo_2:1, 1Jo_2:2).

18:4 True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God's withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness and to have no light (Psa_31:22; Psa_77:1-10; 88:1-18; Son_5:2, Son_5:3, Son_5:6; Isa_1:10; Mat_26:69-72; Eph_4:30, Eph_4:31): yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived (Job_13:15; Psa_51:8, Psa_51:12; Psa_73:15; Isa_1:10; Luk_22:32; 1Jo_3:9); and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair (Psa_22:1; 88:1-18; Isa_54:7-10; Mic_7:7-9).

 

[the particular baptist]

It's a good possibility that you might not be saved. One way to tell if you're a saved is if you find in your life having a delight in the law of God and that you love God with all of your whole entire being. But the word love in the bible has nothing to do with what you feel or some type of emotion. Love in the bible has to do with your actions and those actions are keeping his commandments, you have to be a hearer and a doer and if you're both a hearer and doer, not just a hearer, then you should find in your life that sin in your life should be less seen in your life as righteousness should be fruitful in your life (keeping his commandments, any and all of them that are relative to our day in time)

Really? You find that keeping the Law gives you assurance ?

 

[brontosaurusREX]

What a minute. So calvinists think there is more to being saved than just asking God into your heart?

 

[JasonLibertad]

What a minute. So calvinists think there is more to being saved than just asking God into your heart?

I would ask you where in the scriptures does it say that praying a simple prayer saves you? Revelations 3:20 is not directed at unbelievers but the elect.

When Paul says in Phillippians 2:12 to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" what does he mean?

Salvation is of the Lord and is a three step process that will be seen to completion in the elect of God.
Romans 8:28-30
We know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.


First we are Justified from the penalty of sin. When the Holy Spirit quickens us and our eyes are opened then we will have ears to hear and eyes to see that we are wretched sinners in need of a savior because we can not fulfill the Law (His commandments). Only then can we see that there is nothing we can do in and of ourselves to be saved. We are given a heart of repentance and step two begins.
Second we are Sanctified from the power of sin. We are set apart to do the will of God. This is a life long process that God will see to completion in us. We become a new creation in Christ Jesus the old is done away with and we begin to sin less as the power of the Holy Spirit has come upon us we are being sanctified.
Finally we are Glorified in Christ. When we die and are in the presence of God.

Again I ask you where in the scriptures is there a sinners prayer? I have not found one although it seems to be the beginning and end all of many a preachers message.

 

[A New Dawn]

What a minute. So calvinists think there is more to being saved than just asking God into your heart?

I think you will find that Calvinists believe that IF you are saved, you will do what Christ asks and show fruits of the spirit. Not to get saved, but because you are saved. As is outlined in Ephesians 2:8-10 (and James 2:17).

 

[Maysie]

As a fairly new Christian - Wondering if someone could help me with this thought that I keep pondering.
Was God not sovereign during the time Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and the tree of life was set before them ? So did free will exist then ( because they seemed to have a choice) but then come to a halt after that ? Thank you for any thoughts or explanations you may have for me. . I find it all kind of confusing and anxiety causing at times.

 

[faceofbear]

As a fairly new Christian - Wondering if someone could help me with this thought that I keep pondering.
Was God not sovereign during the time Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and the tree of life was set before them ? So did free will exist then ( because they seemed to have a choice) but then come to a halt after that ? Thank you for any thoughts or explanations you may have for me. . I find it all kind of confusing and anxiety causing at times.

It depends who you ask. I believe that God predestined the fall. That is not to say God caused evil. Adam and Eve did choose to sin, but they chose to because God predestined the fall. Why? Because it pleased God to crush His Son to demonstrate His justice, His grace, His mercy, and His love. All of which would not be possible without the fall.

The view that man had freewill pre-fall is an Arminian view. They then believe man acted freely to sin, otherwise God is indirectly the author of sin (which, of course, is not true). He in essence "allowed" sin. However, this raises the issue of why did God create man KNOWING they would sin, and since He KNEW this, created their psych, etc. and all their being in order that they sin, then doesn't this STILL make God the author of evil? Thus, many more liberal Arminians go as far to deny the foreknowledge of God, and rightfully so because the view is a philosophical conundrum, and very illogical. They then believe that when Christ died, He gave all mankind a prevenient grace. That is, when Christ died, He gave the world a FREED will, because sin had bondaged our will, but Christ freed it so that men could respond to the Gospel. This is not a Calvinist view.

A Calvinist view, at least the original view, was that Christ died for the elect, and the elect are saved only because of Christ, nothing else. They in a sense, remove responsibility. This shouldn't be looked at as "cheap grace," because what is cheap about a crucified Lord dying?

 

[Rylick]

I have been looking at calvinism and was wondering when does a person know that he is saved? If a person thinks he is saved and doesn't have the fruit of the spirit then he is not saved right?
I am asking this because i have been "saved" for 4 years. But even though i show flashes of the spirit, i still have outbursts of anger, still lust, and curse when angry.
I am worried I'm not saved.
L.J.

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved". We all fall short of God's glory, but it is through faith that we have been saved.

 

[epistemaniac]

What a minute. So calvinists think there is more to being saved than just asking God into your heart?

check out "Decisional Regeneration" - James E. Adams