Curiosity About.. well.. Everything

[OwlSight]

Ok, so, I'm I guess what you would call a "seeker." I've been looking for a religion for probably the better half of my 19 years of life (that sounds so awkward), and so I'm trying to go on a sort of "religious search" of sorts, I guess.

I've read all of the posting rules and whatnot, so hopefully I won't be accidentally disrespectful in any way or accidentally break any rules! If I do, please just point them out and I will immediately edit whatever I did wrong, apologize and never do it again. This is my first time posting on a forum of this caliber, so please excuse any.. erm.. awkwardness.

I suppose the hardest thing for me, when attempting to find a religion to believe in, is finding one that, uh.. I guess fits all of my moral values and such? There are also a lot of things that can't be explained through logical deduction and science that I would appreciate some explanation for, and it appears as though my gateway to answers would be religion or some sort of spiritual following. ..I hope this is making sense.

I grew up in a home of no religion, and so I really wasn't brought up to believe anything, although there were sort of Christian undertones. I have been atheist for most of my life, although recently I've become more, eh.. not exactly agnostic, but pretty close, I suppose. I'm still looking for answers, though, obviously!

So I guess what I'm asking, at the core of it all, is why should I believe in this faith, for lack of a better phrase? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, by any means. I guess I'm asking why you believe in it! That might help me understand why I should believe in it, too.

I don't really understand what the Christian faith is founded on and why people believe it. I've kind of grown up thinking, in a nutshell, "Ok, so, there's this book that was written and this guy named Jesus and there's a guy called God and He made everything and stuff, yay, let's all worship Him," so that most definitely says something about how much exposure I've had to all this Christian business.

So, uh.. I suppose I would appreciate anything anyone has to say! ;

~OwlSight

 

[solarwave]

I don't really understand what the Christian faith is founded on and why people believe it. I've kind of grown up thinking, in a nutshell, "Ok, so, there's this book that was written and this guy named Jesus and there's a guy called God and He made everything and stuff, yay, let's all worship Him," so that most definitely says something about how much exposure I've had to all this Christian business.

So, uh.. I suppose I would appreciate anything anyone has to say! ;

Maybe it would help if I just explained my understanding of Christianity. Many people will have many different understandings ranging from fundementalist to liberal.

So there is one God who created everything and holds all things in existance at all times. This God is good and loves all humans equally with unlimited unconditional love. God is made known to us in the universe, the person of Jesus and the inward influence of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was fully human but was at all times fully at one with God, effectively making Him God in human form. His crucifixion shows to us the love of God, a loving willing to choose to die for His friends even though He was God incarnate. In His life He also demonstrated mercy, forgiveness and grace for all people and called people to do the same. Then 3 days after He died He rose from the dead and I would recommend this to be an area you should look into for a reason to believe in God and Christianity. Jesus was brought back to life in a transformed body which reassures us of Gods power and willingness to overcome death.

As for morality, the rules of right and wrong (which not everyone agrees on) are important, but the foundation of the letter of the law is a spirit of the law which is to love God and love others. Very simply that is goodness, to love. Of course reason can be applied to this to try to find out how this is applied in certain situations.

Worship can be seen as thanks to God and demonstration of devotion to God and goodness. A time to reorientate oneself to what really matters and to encounter the Holy Spirit.

My understanding of the Bible is that it is a collection of books written by men based on their experience of God. It contains wisdom, goodness and truth, but also has some errors in my opinion.

I think I have commented upon all the things you mentioned and although it doesn't tell you why you should think I am right I'm sure others will do that.

 

[OwlSight]

Jesus was fully human but was at all times fully at one with God, effectively making Him God in human form. His crucifixion shows to us the love of God, a loving willing to choose to die for His friends even though He was God incarnate. In His life He also demonstrated mercy, forgiveness and grace for all people and called people to do the same. Then 3 days after He died He rose from the dead and I would recommend this to be an area you should look into for a reason to believe in God and Christianity. Jesus was brought back to life in a transformed body which reassures us of Gods power and willingness to overcome death.

What I don't get about this is that if He died only to be brought back, then what was the point in dying? What did He lose in dying? Another thing I wonder is why should I assume that He was resurrected? I say "assume" because, well.. I'm not sure what proof there is that He was actually resurrected.. I don't understand why Him coming back from the dead is a reason for me to believe..

Apparently, loads of other people were killed via crucifixion, as well.. Why did Jesus get to come back? Why are we somehow absolved of our sins if we believe that happened?

 

[drich0150]

So I guess what I'm asking, at the core of it all, is why should I believe in this faith, for lack of a better phrase? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, by any means. I guess I'm asking why you believe in it! That might help me understand why I should believe in it, too.

Your shouldn't unless you are looking to have a relationship with God.

I don't really understand what the Christian faith is founded on and why people believe it. I've kind of grown up thinking, in a nutshell, "Ok, so, there's this book that was written and this guy named Jesus and there's a guy called God and He made everything and stuff, yay, let's all worship Him," so that most definitely says something about how much exposure I've had to all this Christian business.

Initially the draw is eternal life, but once one grows a little Spiritually the goal is an eternal relationship with the Creator.

 

[razeontherock]

Hi, and welcome to CF!

What it's based on? The resurrection, and the testimony of Jesus' closest followers, called Apostles. There's a reason it spread so quickly, and why it lasted; that's not because it's all bunk.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Look, you won't find the answers you seek from the people of this forum. The truth you seek will only come from God. Start reading your Bible (get one if you don't have one) and you will find the truth. Start in the Gospel of Matthew and then read the Gospel of John. Make sure you pray that God will give you spiritual insight into his Word and pray that God will reveal himself to you.

 

[OwlSight]

Your shouldn't unless you are looking to have a relationship with God.

Does this mean that.. ..in order to believe, I have to.. ..already believe..? I'm.. confused.. That seems like an illogical paradox to me..

Initially the draw is eternal life, but once one grows a little Spiritually the goal is an eternal relationship with the Creator.

Excuse me if I'm jumping to conclusions, but does this mean that Christianity stems from fear of what happens after death?

What it's based on? The resurrection, and the testimony of Jesus' closest followers, called Apostles. There's a reason it spread so quickly, and why it lasted; that's not because it's all bunk.

A lot of things spread quickly and last, but are bunk.. What makes Christianity different..? <:I

Look, you won't find the answers you seek from the people of this forum. The truth you seek will only come from God. Start reading your Bible (get one if you don't have one) and you will find the truth. Start in the Gospel of Matthew and then read the Gospel of John. Make sure you pray that God will give you spiritual insight into his Word and pray that God will reveal himself to you.

Thank you for your advice! A few days ago, someone gave me a copy of the Bible. I think it's the New Testament. I'll have to start reading it and see what happens.

 

[drich0150]

Does this mean that.. ..in order to believe, I have to.. ..already believe..?

No, it means you have to Want to believe.

I'm.. confused. That seems like an illogical paradox to me..

Probably because you do not understand, and you have decided to draw final conclusions.

Excuse me if I'm jumping to conclusions, but does this mean that Christianity stems from fear of what happens after death?

No, that is a common misconception.
Would you want to know or be friends with the leader of your country?

A lot of things spread quickly and last, but are bunk.. What makes Christianity different..? <:I

like what?

 

[ephraimanesti]

So, uh.. I suppose I would appreciate anything anyone has to say! ;

~OwlSight

MY BROTHER,

i would strongly suggest that before you go any further in your inquires that you do some reading in the "Book" you refer to--the Bible--upon which the Christian faith is based. i'm sure other people will have different recommendations, but for starters i would recommend that you read the beginning books of the Old Testament (skipping a couple)--Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Joshua--and the first few books of the New Testament (again skipping a couple)--Mark, John, Acts, and Romans.

This reading will provide you with a foundational understanding of Christianity upon which you can build with your questions here. Starting out with questions before doing any reading or having at least a beginning knowledge of the subject is not very productive to say the least, if for no other reason than you have no way of ascertaining which replies are accurate and which are not.

MAY YOUR SEARCH BE BLESSED!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[razeontherock]

A lot of things spread quickly and last, but are bunk.. What makes Christianity different..? <:I

What started out w/ 12 and added 1,000's per day like this, where all the founding members were willing to lay down their life for their cause and it continued? Seriously, we need to examine your claim of "lots."

 

[OwlSight]

No, it means you have to Want to believe.

I would like to believe, but I need reason to..

Probably because you do not understand, and you have decided to draw final conclusions.

..I.. ..If I don't understand.. ..I can't follow your logic.. This kind of logical fallacy is something I learned about last semester in my Critical Thinking class.. x_X..

No, that is a common misconception.
Would you want to know or be friends with the leader of your country?

I, uh.. ..I.. I suppose..? Obama seems like a cool guy..

like what?

..Well.. other religions.. I mean, they spread, but surely you don't believe they're true if you are a Christian..

 

[OwlSight]

MY BROTHER,

i would strongly suggest that before you go any further in your inquires that you do some reading in the "Book" you refer to--the Bible--upon which the Christian faith is based. i'm sure other people will have different recommendations, but for starters i would recommend that you read the beginning books of the Old Testament (skipping a couple)--Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Joshua--and the first few books of the New Testament (again skipping a couple)--Mark, John, Acts, and Romans.

This reading will provide you with a foundational understanding of Christianity upon which you can build with your questions here. Starting out with questions before doing any reading or having at least a beginning knowledge of the subject is not very productive to say the least, if for no other reason than you have no way of ascertaining which replies are accurate and which are not.

MAY YOUR SEARCH BE BLESSED!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Ok! Thank you! I have a lot of reading to do, haha! I'm still trying to find my Bible, but once I find it, I'll start reading immediately!

What started out w/ 12 and added 1,000's per day like this, where all the founding members were willing to lay down their life for their cause and it continued? Seriously, we need to examine your claim of "lots."

..I'm starting to feel like I'm being attacked.. A lot of religions are like that, aren't they..? Aren't some cults like that, too? I'm not trying to compare your faith to a cult, but isn't that kind of behaviour similar to behaviour seen in cults..?

I'm not trying to attack or belittle.. I'm just trying to find answers. I'm going to try to find my Bible now and start reading, because going straight to the source seems to be the best advice/response to my questions so far..

 

[drich0150]

I would like to believe, but I need reason to..

Then ask God to give you one.

..I.. ..If I don't understand.. ..I can't follow your logic..

Then ask a question and do not make conclude your thoughts till you have all of the information you are inquiring about.

This kind of logical fallacy is something I learned about last semester in my Critical Thinking class.. x_X..

A logical fallacy only becomes an issue here is you have already made a predetermined conclusion, and you are holding my answers to your predetermined standard.. Which in of itself is a fallacy. Because you are representing yourself as one who is searching for answers not one who already has them, and is looking to test us against your beliefs.

I, uh.. ..I.. I suppose..? Obama seems like a cool guy..

Do you want a relationship with Him because you fear government? Or is it like you said because you want to know a "cool guy?"

We do not want a relationship with The God of the universe because we fear death. We want a relationship with the creator of the universe, because He wants one with us. What is more cool than that?

..Well.. other religions.. I mean, they spread, but surely you don't believe they're true if you are a Christian..

There are one or two other major religions.. So one or two is alot?

 

[ephraimanesti]

..I'm starting to feel like I'm being attacked.. A lot of religions are like that, aren't they..? Aren't some cults like that, too? I'm not trying to compare your faith to a cult, but isn't that kind of behaviour similar to behaviour seen in cults..?

MY BROTHER,

You need to realize that Christians here tend to be somewhat oversensitive because so many non-believers, under the guise of asking "innocent questions" are actually setting up for an attack, turning the Christians' answers into tools of attack and never, for an instant, being really interested in learning about that what they have already dismissed as silly superstition.

i would ask you to be patient, and once it is seen that you are serious and not a troll, that their suspicions will be allayed and the tone of their responses will mellow, and they will become eager to help you find your way.

I'm not trying to attack or belittle.. I'm just trying to find answers. I'm going to try to find my Bible now and start reading, because going straight to the source seems to be the best advice/response to my questions so far..

As you read, my brother, pray to God--yes, i know you don't believe yet, just be honest and ask for what you need--that He would help you understand what you are reading and that He would help you to come to know His reality and Love for you. According to God's written Word--those who seek with an honest and open heart ALWAYS find. It certainly worked for me. May you be likewise blessed!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[OwlSight]

MY BROTHER,

You need to realize that Christians here tend to be somewhat oversensitive because so many non-believers, under the guise of asking "innocent questions" are actually setting up for an attack, turning the Christians' answers into tools of attack and never, for an instant, being really interested in learning about that what they have already dismissed as silly superstition.

I was actually just thinking about that after I read that other post and went back to looking over the Bible. e_o I've already been banned from one chatroom today.. I don't need to add a second one to today's counter..

..So.. I started reading some of the books.. I skipped around a lot, but.. it kind of freaked me out. God seems like a hateful, vengeful being..

In Deuteronomy, it.. says something about eating your children?? It's at 28:53.
[BIBLE]God’s punishment for disobedience included eating “the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you.”[/BIBLE]
Am I interpreting that too literally? I asked my Presbyterian friend about it and she had never even heard of that verse before. This is a bit of the chatlog when I told her about it:

Twilight says:
I got a bible opened up downstarts
28:53, okay


Me: *flipping through my great grandfather's old bible*
Mom: c: What're you looking for? Do you need any help?
Me: Something about having to eat your children...
Mom: %|....... What??

Apparently, her mum had never heard of it, either.

Another part I have a real problem is this.. It's in Romans at 1:26-27.

Paul says that lesbians and homosexuals deserve death.

Judging from the rules of this forum, I'm going to assume that even if the majority of people on this forum don't believe they-- ..we.. deserve death, we're at least "unnatural," somehow.. I'm also apparently not allowed to put that I'm married as my marital status because I happen to be in a loving, committed, same-sex relationship.

And as for drich0150's comments.. I guess he's right. You have to WANT to believe in God. I don't want to believe in and take my moral views from a being that was pleased when 3,000 people were murdered..
[BIBLE] EXODUS 32:27 – After seeing the golden calf, God commanded the Levites, “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” 3,000 were slaughtered, and God was pleased.
[/BIBLE]

I guess I'm hitching my cart back onto the "IDK WHAT MY RELIGION IS" train.. e_o Asking questions to Christians gives me far too many loose-ended answers while asking my atheist best friend for nearly ten years gives me all the answers I would ever need.

Seeing as how this is most likely my "last hurrah" and I'm wholeheartedly expecting to get the banhammer after this message, I'd like to copy some things that that atheist friend said.. Not because I want to be a jerk about it or anything, but I think she poses an interesting point..

Alaska says:
Well, that's the obvious one
But logically, if god knows everything and can do anything, then /he/ can do /nothing/. There is no thought he can have that he does not already know he will have, there is nothing he can do that he does not already know that he will do, so there is nothing he can do about /anything/. He has no reactive power. It's pure fatalism. He cannot change his mind. He knows before you are born everything
you will ever do, he knows whether you will go to heaven or hell, and there is absolutely nothing you can do that would surprise him or change his mind or affect your fate.
Nothing.
Schreckensherrschaft von dem Pony says:
..-Brain explodes-
Alaska says:
So even if he /is/ real, you have no incentive to do a thing he says, because he has no power to do anything different than he was already going to do no matter what.
Schreckensherrschaft von dem Pony says:
Wow
That's insane.
Alaska says:
It hurt my brain coming up with it. xD
I was lying in bed like, "Wait a d*** minute...if you knew /everything/..."
My psychology teacher basically gave me the idea when we had our class about free will
not about religion, but just in general
The idea that /god/ could give anyone free will - something that doesn't even exist /at all/ - but thatgod of all people could give free will to someone is ridicuous when he would necessarily be so much a slave to his own nature as if he weren't a thing at all.
So...then
Even if god did exist, a universe created by an all-knowing, all-powerful god would be indistinguishable from a universe without one at all. So it's all for nothing even if it's real. Ignore it, move on.
Schreckensherrschaft von dem Pony says:
..You're right
Alaska says:
This is probably my favourite quote about this whole subject
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Epicurus – Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

..So, uh.. I guess that's it.. I've decided that Christianity is not for me.. If I don't get banned after this message, I might stick around, anyway..

Thank you, ephraimanesti, for your sound advice and well-wishes and everyone else who read this thread. <3 Good evening and God bless (if you believe in Him! )

 

[ephraimanesti]

..Thank you, ephraimanesti, for your sound advice and well-wishes and everyone else who read this thread. <3 Good evening and God bless (if you believe in Him! )

MY BROTHER,

A rather sad ending. May God deliver you from darkness when the time is right.

PEACE AND JOY TO YOU!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[razeontherock]

This is one reason I recommend people start reading in John's Gospel, and go straight through to the end of the NT from there. OT can be a little rough to figure out what to do with it, if you don't have a good grasp of the NT first.

 

[drich0150]

And as for drich0150's comments.. I guess he's right. You have to WANT to believe in God. I don't want to believe in and take my moral views from a being that was pleased when 3,000 people were murdered..

Not murdered Slaughtered.

[bible] EXODUS 32:27 &#8211; After seeing the golden calf, God commanded the Levities, &#8220;Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.&#8221; 3,000 were slaughtered, and God was pleased.
[/bible]

I guess I'm hitching my cart back onto the "IDK WHAT MY RELIGION IS" train.. e_o Asking questions to Christians gives me far too many loose-ended answers while asking my atheist best friend for nearly ten years gives me all the answers I would ever need.

..Did I miss something? Can you show me where you asked an honest question? One that you did not already have an answer you were trying to hold Christianity to?

Seeing as how this is most likely my "last hurrah" and I'm wholeheartedly expecting to get the banhammer after this message, I'd like to copy some things that that atheist friend said..

Lol, For a none Christian you sure seem to be anxious to be martyred, or at the very least to have the mods end a conversation you no longer wish to be apart of.

Not because I want to be a jerk about it or anything, but I think she poses an interesting point..

I truly hope "she, nor Epicurus" was your big gun here.

&#8220;Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Evil is the ultimate expression of sin. It is the proof that we indeed have a will outside of God's expressed will. In other words Evil is the proof of free will.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

By what standard does this finite man judge God if not by God's own standard? You seem to be able to point out a logical fallacy, care to take a stab at this one?

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Again, Evil is the proof of Free will. Free Will and the consequences of those choices are the point and purpose of this life. We are to choose where we wish to spend eternity. Without "Sin and Evil" there is not point of been given this existence.

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?&#8221;

Because the Title "God" has absolutely nothing to do with how Epicurus defines it.

..So, uh.. I guess that's it.. I've decided that Christianity is not for me..

So quickly then? It was almost as if you came here with this sentiment firmly planted in your heart, and you wished to simply run some well meaning brother or sister around a bit and then make them think it was their inability to convert you.. Or again did I miss something?

If I don't get banned after this message, I might stick around, anyway..

Don't be so quick to fall on your sword. The mods are very forgiving to those who play by the rules, or to those who are truly looking for God.

I do hope to see you around. Perhaps next time you will leave the games and bring an honest question or two.

 

[andreha]

Dear OwlSight

The awesome thing about Christianity is that we serve a genuine, honest to goodness, living God. One that takes care of His children, and stands by them through thick and thin. I could give you numerous accounts of my life being saved by divine intervention. I'd have been dead or maimed so many times, were it not for my God, and His love and protection. Honestly, I wouldn't have lived to be 2 years old if it were not for the Lord. I still vividly remember what my mother told me some years ago:

She was busy at the stove - preparing some food. I was in my tall feeding chair, not even a year old. Since she had her back towards me, she didn't notice me climbing out of the chair, and busy toppling it over - with my head headed straight for the floor. She said that she felt something grab her from behind, and turn her around. She was just in time to catch me before hitting the floor. See, they are also Christians, who also enjoyed God's loving protection - for the whole family.

Anyways, that's one of many examples. Nothing beats knowing the love of a genuine God.

 

[LWB]

Hi OwlSight,

Firstly you should familiarise yourself with the life and teachings of Jesus, as found in the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. If something within you is attracted to his message, that is the best reason than any other I can think of that you might consider Christianity as a way of life.