Crying for my country

[starchild]

False. The ACLU supports freedom of speech. Nor does it "support" the KKK or Fred Phelps.

But what this has to do with the OP is anyone's guess.

When one has no facts to base one's bias upon, one throws up a smokescreen of falsehoods to keep other people disproving unrelated lies.

Or you nominate a judge to the supreme court.

Either can work for a day or two.

 

[starchild]

Hmm . . . .

The OP seems to be a denunciation of the tactics of using rape and torture. Responses seem to not be directed at that, but rather at attacking sources of information.

Considering what we all have seen, the facts are not really in dispute, I fear.

The question I put to the body is, "Are we proud when our agents rape and beat and kill others? Are we?"

I'd like to question further: "Are we proud when our administration allows torture by our agents to be covered up, and aids in that cover up?"

 

[starchild]

They seem to have a propensity for it, yes. I suppose all the stories I've read in the mainstream press were just motivated by the leftist hatred of Muslims though.

You misunderstand.

You made a horribly bigoted statement, and you failed to back it with any type of support.

Was there no support? This is just an observation you've made in your many years of Muslim Studies? If my assumption is incorrect, please provide links to support for the bigoted statement.

 

[Latreia]

While I fail to see what this has to do with t=my post, yes, I do weep for them. I also weep for the black and latino women here who are raped by our racist men. I weep for children everywhere who suffer violence at the hands of those they should be able to trust, whether that be Iraqi children at the hands of US soldiers or US children at the hands of their own parents.

However, those things have little to do with politics. This does. That's why I posted it, and I would appreciate staying on topic, please.[/QUOTE]

Your last sentences leaves no doubt whatsoever that you turned a blind eye to the information I tried to add to what you used as a source. Daily KOS is a purely biased political site. Any Tom, Dick, and Harry can, and on this site, DO churn out opinionated stuff like BLOGS and pander it as fact....FOR POLITICAL purposes.

The Daily Kos: Machine Politics 2.0

By Brian Reich

"Kos, of course, is Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, the founder and editor of The Daily Kos (www.dailykos.com), a political blog that attracts more than half a million visitors every day. Kos is the poster-boy for Democratic blogging.

He raises money, defines issues, rallies supporters, and brings scandals to light with energy and effectiveness few – online or offline – have matched.

And if the Democrats pull off a victory early next month, Kos deserves his share of the credit for helping to energize the Democratic base, focusing resources on previously neglected House and Senate candidates, and nudging the Kerry campaign closer to victory.

"I infinitely prefer Kos to $2,000-a-plate dinners," one Democratic strategist told me. "There is no comparison in that book. He’s literally engaging thousands of people in a valuable and critical way. Those people are making a critical choice and donating directly to candidates. That is something that has never happened before. And that is great!"

It is clear, since 2002, Kos has helped to redefine how the Internet is used, and viewed, in politics.

At the same time, there is fear, frustration, and even anger about how Kos goes about his business. And while what Kos has done is certainly impressive, it’s fair to ask whether he really represents a move from ego-centric politics to net-centric politics."

Are these sentences vague or unclear in any way? Hideous rape and murders of women and children have been going on all over the world for years, yet some peoople don't seem tp get worked up unless there are political advantages in complains that our own soldiers did it, and in very shady sources, at that.


Let others have their unresearched sympathy for reports against our solders, but I will say this: those are our fathers, brothers, sons, sisters and daughters over there in a daily hell for years that you know absolutely nothing about having to endure. They will come back with horrors, wounds, and trauma for the rest of their lives. My loyalty and faith in those Americans, not in the government, will never, ever waver. I love America and the good Christians that deserve to be protected and keep their privileges and lives held in higher priority than the propaganda and slanders by the enemies of the United States.


Have another box of pink Kleenex tissues, anyone?

 

[Latreia]

You misunderstand.

You made a horribly bigoted statement, and you failed to back it with any type of support.

Was there no support? This is just an observation you've made in your many years of Muslim Studies? If my assumption is incorrect, please provide links to support for the bigoted statement.

Why bother? You don't care, wouldn't believe it, and waste his, yours and everybody's time arguing over it. A statement is not bigoted, if it is true. You just expect to be spoon-fed like a baby so you can pretend you just don't understand it.



If thou continuest to take delight in idle argumentation thou mayest be qualified to combat with the sophists, but will never know how to live with men.
... Socrates

False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.
... Socrates

 

[praying]

They seem to have a propensity for it, yes.

Really, like black guys for white women, that sort of propensity, Hey even if they did that was not the question. My question was if they wern't white would you have cared or even posted that scintilating tidbit of *cough* news?


Hey I read the liberal rags everyday and can't say I remember ever seeing a story about a Muslim raping a white woman. Now that is not to say I couldn't have missed it but I get the impression that you are reading this stuff regularly, again I could be wrong.

 

[praying]

This is for you...

That's pretty funny is there a small version.

 

[flautist]

Are you even capable of comprehending these sentences? You and many others here raise grave doubts. Hideous rape and murders of women and children have been going on all over the world for years, yet you don't get worked up unless you can whine that our soldiers did it.

I get worked up about it no matter who it happens to. I happen to be compassionate towards ALL humanity. However, this post is about this specific group of people, not about every rape that has ever occured.

Have your unrearched sympathy for reports against our solders, but I will tell you this: those are our fathers, brothers, sons, sisters and daughters over there in a daily hell for years that you know absolutely nothing about having to endure. They will come back with horrors, wounds, and trauma for the rest of their lives. My loyalty and faith in those Americans, not in the government, will never, ever waver. I love America and the good Christians that deserve to be protected and keep their privileges and lives held in higher priority than the politically correct whimps who crawl and drool over the enemies of the United States.

Stick that in your lousy box of pink Kleenex tissues.

Don't you EVER tell me what I do and do not know about. I may not be a war veteran, but I am a victim of rape. Once when I was 7, multiple times when I was 16. I know exactly what it is like to be caught in the throws of PTSD. I know what the flashbacks are like. I know what reliving the trauma every day for the rest of your life is like. I truely feel for all the decent men and women over there fighting this war. Don't EVER dictate my feelings for me. I love this country too, and I love EVERYONE in it, not just the "good christians" who I guess are the ones who insult anyone who dares to feel compassion for their enemies as Jesus taught. I know what those decent and brave soldiers are going to go through when they get back, and I know what those women and children who were raped at the hands of a few of our soldiers and prison guards will go through. I know it first hand. This is not just fake sympathy. This is very real compassion and empathy for ANYONE who has to suffer the bindings of PTSD, depression, and the whole host of other problems brought on by these traumas.

Please, read through your posts and ask yourself if that's what Jesus would tell me when seeing this empathy and feeling.

 

[flautist]

Let others have their unresearched sympathy for reports against our solders, but I will say this: those are our fathers, brothers, sons, sisters and daughters over there in a daily hell for years that you know absolutely nothing about having to endure. They will come back with horrors, wounds, and trauma for the rest of their lives. My loyalty and faith in those Americans, not in the government, will never, ever waver. I love America and the good Christians that deserve to be protected and keep their privileges and lives held in higher priority than the propaganda and slanders by the enemies of the United States.


Have another box of pink Kleenex tissues, anyone?

Editing your post doesn't change what you said to me, you know...

 

[Gunny]

and

What Does Amen Mean

 

[Squirrelfish]

I'm very sorry but do you know what comes with war?
death
pain
suffering
rape
burning
destruction

I'm not sure all these things happened but if they did it was on a very small scale...you know before we kicked saddams fat butt no decent-looking girl was safe...even very young girls. anyone could suddenly be tortured or shot. people were killed and tortured and raped every freakin day. This man was evil and we got rid of him. I'm proud of my country and its elite and disciplined military force. if there are US military personal doing these things they will be caught and punished. now what about all the rape *inside our country? why cry about what the war brought? more people die in the US from drunk and stoned drivers in a year than the war in Iraq has caused thus far. and turn your head to the east, and you will see God's people now fighting every day against terrorism and all out attacks.

remember, don't worry so much about politics and war. EVERYTHING is in God's hands. This war is a step in end times...in Matthew 24:6 Jesus says "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the biginning of birth pains." verse ten "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."

Soon Iraq will be at peace. We will be closer to peace in the middle east. And we should all know what happens when the world is united in peace...under the antichrist and the party will begin. So stop worrying and follow God's plan for your life. spread the good news. That should be our main goal in life. But instead we get on the internet and argue with each other over our nation's leaders. now lets turn the heat down, close this thread as its not going anywere, and behave in a manner worthy of the Lord.

 

[Gunny]

I'm very sorry but do you know what comes with war?
death
pain
suffering
rape
burning
destruction

I'm not sure all these things happened but if they did it was on a very small scale...you know before we kicked saddams fat butt no decent-looking girl was safe...even very young girls. anyone could suddenly be tortured or shot. people were killed and tortured and raped every freakin day. This man was evil and we got rid of him. I'm proud of my country and its elite and disciplined military force. if there are US military personal doing these things they will be caught and punished. now what about all the rape *inside our country? why cry about what the war brought? more people die in the US from drunk and stoned drivers in a year than the war in Iraq has caused thus far. and turn your head to the east, and you will see God's people now fighting every day against terrorism and all out attacks.

remember, don't worry so much about politics and war. EVERYTHING is in God's hands. This war is a step in end times...in Matthew 24:6 Jesus says "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the biginning of birth pains." verse ten "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."

Soon Iraq will be at peace. We will be closer to peace in the middle east. And we should all know what happens when the world is united in peace...under the antichrist and the party will begin. So stop worrying and follow God's plan for your life. spread the good news. That should be our main goal in life. But instead we get on the internet and argue with each other over our nation's leaders. now lets turn the heat down, close this thread as its not going anywere, and behave in a manner worthy of the Lord.

OUTSTANING POST, Fellow Brother in Christ!!!

 

[flautist]

I'm very sorry but do you know what comes with war?
death
pain
suffering
rape
burning
destruction

I know, I know. That's why I'm a pacifist.

I'm not sure all these things happened but if they did it was on a very small scale...you know before we kicked saddams fat butt no decent-looking girl was safe...even very young girls. anyone could suddenly be tortured or shot. people were killed and tortured and raped every freakin day. This man was evil and we got rid of him.

I know that. I'm not saying anything about that. I don't agree with the way we went into this war, but I do think that Saddam needed taken care of.

I'm proud of my country and its elite and disciplined military force. if there are US military personal doing these things they will be caught and punished.

I wish they would, but the first link in the post is about Bush vetoing the $442 billion defense budget if there is a provision in it that these and other allegations have to be investigated. Bush is doing a good job at covering up anything that goes wrong and protecting the wrongdoers.

now what about all the rape *inside our country? why cry about what the war brought? more people die in the US from drunk and stoned drivers in a year than the war in Iraq has caused thus far.

I know that. Did you not read my last post? I am the victim of more than one of those rapes that happen in this country. I also have a family member that was killed by a drunk driver, leaving her one year old son without a mother. I have experience or been affected by more sadness and trauma than any of you know. Don't assume that I don't feel for other things, too. But this particular post is not about those other things. It is about these specific incidents in our prisons. (I'm really getting tired of saying that. )

and turn your head to the east, and you will see God's people now fighting every day against terrorism and all out attacks.

There were no insurgents before we went over there. Yes, there were some bad people, there were rapes, and those were very dismaying. However, they were not the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11. They needed to be dealt with, no doubt about that, but don't equate them with the attackers on 9/11.

remember, don't worry so much about politics and war. EVERYTHING is in God's hands. This war is a step in end times...in Matthew 24:6 Jesus says "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the biginning of birth pains." verse ten "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."

I am not alarmed. I am saddened. I have compassion and empathy for these people. That's what this post is about.

Soon Iraq will be at peace. We will be closer to peace in the middle east. And we should all know what happens when the world is united in peace...under the antichrist and the party will begin. So stop worrying and follow God's plan for your life. spread the good news. That should be our main goal in life. But instead we get on the internet and argue with each other over our nation's leaders. now lets turn the heat down, close this thread as its not going anywere, and behave in a manner worthy of the Lord.

I'm not going to sleep over this. I want peace. I believe that it is the duty of Christians everywhere to work for peace. I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to discuss. I had hoped that we could all be united in outrage at the rape of children. Oh, well, can't have anything, I guess.

 

[mommiefrog]

I cried for my country on Sept 11. I recently cried for London and Egypt. I cry for the troops that are fighting in other countries daily. I cry for the families of the soldiers that won't be coming home. Everyday I see or hear something on the news that makes me cry for my country, my loved ones, my nieghbors and yes, even complete strangers. Five memebers of my family are or were in the military. All five were sent to Iraq. All five, thankfully have returned safely home. I have a friend that is there now. I can't say that I completely support the war in Iraq, but I can say that I know why we are there. I can understand why Bush made the decision he did. I have talked to people that have been there. My brother is a chaplians assistant in the US Army. I know that he saw more than I care to even know about while stationed in Iraq. He is now preparing to go to Korea. I worry daily about the state of not only MY country but every other country in the world.

Crying takes and shows compassion. Compassion is something that we need more of in this country. Cry for this country for as long as you want, but then don't just give up. Do something to change what you don't like. Become active. Pray. Keep hoping.

 

[arnegrim]

I know that. I'm not saying anything about that. I don't agree with the way we went into this war, but I do think that Saddam needed taken care of.

And I respectfully disagree.

I wish they would, but the first link in the post is about Bush vetoing the $442 billion defense budget if there is a provision in it that these and other allegations have to be investigated. Bush is doing a good job at covering up anything that goes wrong and protecting the wrongdoers.

Perhaps the defense budget shouldn't be contingent on something as 'ambiguous' as an investigation.

There were no insurgents before we went over there. Yes, there were some bad people, there were rapes, and those were very dismaying. However, they were not the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11. They needed to be dealt with, no doubt about that, but don't equate them with the attackers on 9/11.

We were after terrorists and nations that sponsored/supported terrorists.

Iraq and Saddam fulfilled the latter.

I'm not going to sleep over this. I want peace. I believe that it is the duty of Christians everywhere to work for peace. I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to discuss. I had hoped that we could all be united in outrage at the rape of children. Oh, well, can't have anything, I guess.

We are outraged at the rape of children... IF it's true.

 

[flautist]

You say that you disagree when I said that Saddam needed taken care of, but then you say that he sponsored the terrorism? I don't get it.

And, he did not sponsor the terrorism. Admittedly, he did nothing to stop it, but he did not sponsor it. He refused help Bin Laden when he asked, because Bin Laden was too religious, and Saddam was very secular.

 

[Smoke Screen]

I cried for my country on Sept 11. I recently cried for London and Egypt. I cry for the troops that are fighting in other countries daily. I cry for the families of the soldiers that won't be coming home. Everyday I see or hear something on the news that makes me cry for my country, my loved ones, my nieghbors and yes, even complete strangers. Five memebers of my family are or were in the military. All five were sent to Iraq. All five, thankfully have returned safely home. I have a friend that is there now. I can't say that I completely support the war in Iraq, but I can say that I know why we are there. I can understand why Bush made the decision he did. I have talked to people that have been there. My brother is a chaplians assistant in the US Army. I know that he saw more than I care to even know about while stationed in Iraq. He is now preparing to go to Korea. I worry daily about the state of not only MY country but every other country in the world.

Crying takes and shows compassion. Compassion is something that we need more of in this country. Cry for this country for as long as you want, but then don't just give up. Do something to change what you don't like. Become active. Pray. Keep hoping.

And hold your government accountable for their corruption and lies resulting in the deaths of 1782 American soldiers.

 

[Squirrelfish]

Actualy I had to skip a few posts since this topic is so long
When I said God's people I meant Israel. They've been having a rough time ever since they became a nation in 1946 I believe it was.

and here is where our thoughts and opinions greatly differ. You believe its our job as Christians to make peace...well first let me say I have a very...fiery nature...and I'm an texan but when it comes to defending his people God is a warrior without mercy. I have studied the old testament a bunch...which gives one a good idea of God's character. The Israelites didn't just walk into the promised land. They took it by military force...and they couldn't have done it without God's help...Saddam was killing many people. We tried negotiating but he wouldn't budge, so we went in and took him out...we saved lives in the long run...which means those people who now have a chance to live also have a chance to hear God's word. God subdued the Israelites enemies by miracles, war, and by his will. But you won't get your peace until the anichrist comes along. there will always be war and always death...until Jesus comes back for us and we get the new heaven and new earth- Revelation 20 and 21.

Bush didn't come to the presidency by his or any other man's means...it was God. Remember that he raises up kings and also brings them...Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

Everything is in God's hands - Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both sould and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."

 

[Smoke Screen]

Actualy I had to skip a few posts since this topic is so long
When I said God's people I meant Israel. They've been having a rough time ever since they became a nation in 1946 I believe it was.

and here is where our thoughts and opinions greatly differ. You believe its our job as Christians to make peace...well first let me say I have a very...fiery nature...and I'm an texan but when it comes to defending his people God is a warrior without mercy. I have studied the old testament a bunch...which gives one a good idea of God's character. The Israelites didn't just walk into the promised land. They took it by military force...and they couldn't have done it without God's help...Saddam was killing many people. We tried negotiating but he wouldn't budge, so we went in and took him out...we saved lives in the long run...which means those people who now have a chance to live also have a chance to hear God's word. God subdued the Israelites enemies by miracles, war, and by his will. But you won't get your peace until the anichrist comes along. there will always be war and always death...until Jesus comes back for us and we get the new heaven and new earth- Revelation 20 and 21.

Bush didn't come to the presidency by his or any other man's means...it was God. Remember that he raises up kings and also brings them...Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

Everything is in God's hands - Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both sould and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."

Allah, Buddha or Vishnu also have a say in it.

 

[flautist]

and here is where our thoughts and opinions greatly differ. You believe its our job as Christians to make peace...well first let me say I have a very...fiery nature...and I'm an texan but when it comes to defending his people God is a warrior without mercy. I have studied the old testament a bunch...which gives one a good idea of God's character. The Israelites didn't just walk into the promised land. They took it by military force...and they couldn't have done it without God's help...Saddam was killing many people. We tried negotiating but he wouldn't budge, so we went in and took him out...we saved lives in the long run...which means those people who now have a chance to live also have a chance to hear God's word. God subdued the Israelites enemies by miracles, war, and by his will. But you won't get your peace until the anichrist comes along. there will always be war and always death...until Jesus comes back for us and we get the new heaven and new earth- Revelation 20 and 21.

So, Jesus' teachings about loving your enemies, blessed are the peacemakers, etc. etc. etc. don't mean anything?

Bush didn't come to the presidency by his or any other man's means...it was God. Remember that he raises up kings and also brings them...Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

By that logic, the Iraqis should have just submitted to the authority of Saddam, because he was the authority that God established over them. Who are we to tear down what God has established? (And that we built up and funded in the '80's, BTW)

I respect the office, but I do not respect the man holding it at the present time, and I will not sit by and not speak out against injustice.