CRT and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion

[rambot]

Re: Fox digitally altering:
Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

I mean, IMHO, CRT is really just being used as a dogwhistle to scare people into voting a certain way. But it is ABSOLUTELY going to work and so they are going to exploit it. And then the elections will pass and then CRT will be a footnote in history again.

It's depressing to me how scared and fragile folks are down their to conversations about race and confronting the idea that curricula could use an update.

Functionally, I think you would see very little practical difference in what is happenning in MOST classrooms other than a richer, full telling of American history.

Also, and most importantly, the crux of your argument relies on a misunderstanding of what the phrase "best practice" in the classroom can mean. Regardless, I can't say with confidence that I know exactly how CRT is being reference or what they would envision CRT looking like in their classroom. When I see CRT in fox news, it never seems very promising but left wing news sources don't really discuss it very much. Frankly, it seems right wing news agencies are kind of obsessed about it and nobody else.

Am I off on that assumption?

What I'm not going to do is throw my hands up in the air and suggest the sky is falling. But I am MILDLY curious as to what it means. I don't think having a bunch of white kids feel bad should be a goal; especially since it would not achieve any ultimate goal...and frankly, I think it's insulting every time those stories are brought up as representations of the fULL teaching profession. I definitely would argue those folks are abberations.
Are there any news stories that interview the teachers who have said these things to kids?

 

[bekkilyn]

It kinda depends on what you mean by "labels".
In grade 3(ish...not as knowledgeable of loewr level curriculum) we are teaching kids to label themselves to get to know themselves and their character; honest, kind, hard working. Though you are doing that at that cognitive level. But you teach them that skill.

At the jr high level (where I work) you encourage them to evaluate their social world; their "immediate" context and their groups they belong to (consiously or not).
But I wouldn't personally call these labels. At least not harmful labels.

I had a kid say that they belonged to the identity of "Albertan" and then, and this was HARD for them, they had to describe what they thought that meant. Only managed a BIT of an idea (but that has more to do with the cognitive functioning of my kids)

However, according to the "whiteness chart" included in the following article, values such as being hard working are examples of "white institutional power" which implies harmfulness if one is attempting to become "less white".

In Smithsonian Race Guidelines, rational thinking and hard work are white values

 

[rambot]

I just spent a real quick 5 minutes reading random stuff online.

It struck me. I understand why CRT is so easy to get behind...

It's because anything that would be called "anti-anti-racism" education isn't going to have much success.

 

[rambot]

However, according to the "whiteness chart" included in the following article, values such as being hard working are examples of "white institutional power" which implies harmfulness if one is attempting to become "less white".

In Smithsonian Race Guidelines, rational thinking and hard work are white values

So? If a kid describes themself that way, what difference does it make?

 

[bekkilyn]

Re: Fox digitally altering:
Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

I mean, IMHO, CRT is really just being used as a dogwhistle to scare people into voting a certain way. But it is ABSOLUTELY going to work and so they are going to exploit it. And then the elections will pass and then CRT will be a footnote in history again.

It's depressing to me how scared and fragile folks are down their to conversations about race and confronting the idea that curricula could use an update.

Functionally, I think you would see very little practical difference in what is happenning in MOST classrooms other than a richer, full telling of American history.

Also, and most importantly, the crux of your argument relies on a misunderstanding of what the phrase "best practice" in the classroom can mean. Regardless, I can't say with confidence that I know exactly how CRT is being reference or what they would envision CRT looking like in their classroom. When I see CRT in fox news, it never seems very promising but left wing news sources don't really discuss it very much. Frankly, it seems right wing news agencies are kind of obsessed about it and nobody else.

Am I off on that assumption?

What I'm not going to do is throw my hands up in the air and suggest the sky is falling. But I am MILDLY curious as to what it means. I don't think having a bunch of white kids feel bad should be a goal; especially since it would not achieve any ultimate goal...and frankly, I think it's insulting every time those stories are brought up as representations of the fULL teaching profession. I definitely would argue those folks are abberations.
Are there any news stories that interview the teachers who have said these things to kids?

And yet all of those "fragile" people in VA (deemed "white supremacists" by some other media outlets) somehow didn't notice that the woman they voted in as their Lt. Governor was black or that the man they voted in as Attorney General was Cuban American. I'm starting to get an interesting political cartoon in my head of a group of racially diverse men and women standing and holding hands next to an elephant in front of the American flag while a man on a donkey is screaming the word "racist" at them.

 

[bekkilyn]

So? If a kid describes themself that way, what difference does it make?

Because the poor kid will need to "check his privilege" and be "less white".

 

[RDKirk]

It kinda depends on what you mean by "labels".
In grade 3(ish...not as knowledgeable of loewr level curriculum) we are teaching kids to label themselves to get to know themselves and their character; honest, kind, hard working. Though you are doing that at that cognitive level. But you teach them that skill.

At the jr high level (where I work) you encourage them to evaluate their social world; their "immediate" context and their groups they belong to (consiously or not).
But I wouldn't personally call these labels. At least not harmful labels.

I had a kid say that they belonged to the identity of "Albertan" and then, and this was HARD for them, they had to describe what they thought that meant. Only managed a BIT of an idea (but that has more to do with the cognitive functioning of my kids)

Pigeonholes, then. At any rate, the issue I see is that they are still at the age that their identities are still broadly malleable, and should be left open rather than early determined. You should be talking about what they can be rather than what they might already be.

I was in middle school at a time that I had never seen any of the old Disney classics in theaters because they only went to the white theater. I wasn't allowed to go to the only swimming pool in town. I could have been told that I was a victim of white racism...and it would have been very true at that time.

But "victim" would not always be my "identity" even in my times. My own elders assured me that I would have the option to be anything I worked hard enough to acheive.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Re: Fox digitally altering:
Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

As I said, they've used the wrong images before...it came with a retraction and apology. Without that...they are liable for damages.

I mean, IMHO, CRT is really just being used as a dogwhistle to scare people into voting a certain way.

I don't understand the "dogwhistle" part of your statement.

It's a real set of beliefs.

But it is ABSOLUTELY going to work and so they are going to exploit it. And then the elections will pass and then CRT will be a footnote in history again.

A footnote? It's being institutionalized. The left has adopted the idea of racial discrimination to combat racism. We're talking about racial hiring quotas. California tried to repeal its civil rights laws.

It's depressing to me how scared and fragile folks are down their to conversations about race and confronting the idea that curricula could use an update.

I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with an update.

That doesn't mean that we should just throw anything in there though. There's a real problem in a lot of schools. Real solutions are needed.

Functionally, I think you would see very little practical difference in what is happenning in MOST classrooms other than a richer, full telling of American history.

You don't think white privilege is being taught in school?

Also, and most importantly, the crux of your argument relies on a misunderstanding of what the phrase "best practice" in the classroom can mean.

Please explain.

Regardless, I can't say with confidence that I know exactly how CRT is being reference or what they would envision CRT looking like in their classroom. When I see CRT in fox news, it never seems very promising but left wing news sources don't really discuss it very much. Frankly, it seems right wing news agencies are kind of obsessed about it and nobody else.

Am I off on that assumption?

No....I think you're absolutely correct.

The thing is that many left wing sources have been pushing these same ideas for years now. White privilege is a great example.

How can those same sources talk honestly about where these ideas come from?

What I'm not going to do is throw my hands up in the air and suggest the sky is falling. But I am MILDLY curious as to what it means. I don't think having a bunch of white kids feel bad should be a goal; especially since it would not achieve any ultimate goal...and frankly, I think it's insulting every time those stories are brought up as representations of the fULL teaching profession. I definitely would argue those folks are abberations.
Are there any news stories that interview the teachers who have said these things to kids?

There are teachers who have refused to teach these things and quit.

To admit such a thing would make one liable to a child abuse/racial discrimination lawsuit. So I doubt you'll get a lot of full throated admissions.

There is a recording of a teacher who quit talking to the principal (I think) asking if they are basically demonizing white children for being white.....and the principal agreed.

There's also a recording of teachers discussing their concerns about parents hearing the lessons over Zoom.

You have to understand what happens to a teacher who openly objects. They are basically run out of the school. It's a loss of job for a job that already under pays.

 

[bekkilyn]

Just to make another comment on that link I just posted concerning "hard work" among other things being an example of "whiteness". If "working hard" is a white value, what does that say about the implied values of those who are *not* white? Are they inherently lazy then? Wasn't that a derogatory stereotype often used against black people and some other minorities in the past? There are all sorts of problems with this whole ideology and one of the biggest issues I have with it is that it lists out all of these things and the only solution that is offered is "be less white?" Where are the REAL solutions or IS the goal of this ideology to create racial division as CRT has been accused of doing? It's one thing to have armchair academic discussions about various thoughts and ideas and feelings and ideologies, but if there is no practical plan to discussion that works in some way for everyone, it ends up exactly like what's happening now.

 

[rambot]

Because the poor kid will need to "check his privilege" and be "less white".

No they won't

 

[bekkilyn]

No they won't

Maybe not from you personally, but I've known kids who didn't want other kids to know that they put in any effort in their classes and would come for tutoring and such on the sly because they didn't want that label on them.

 

[rambot]

Maybe not from you personally, but I've known kids who didn't want other kids to know that they put in any effort in their classes and would come for tutoring and such on the sly because they didn't want that label on them.

Sorry. And who is reading this kid's work? Does he share this informatoin with other people?

Of course kids do stuff like that.

I'm a teacher. I don't.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Because the poor kid will need to "check his privilege" and be "less white".

No, but it's interesting how that's a cause for concern...

 

[bekkilyn]

Sorry. And who is reading this kid's work? Does he share this informatoin with other people?

Of course kids do stuff like that.

I'm a teacher. I don't.

The point isn't about whether anyone narks on the kid (and no, teachers generally don't), but the fact that the kid felt he had to sneak around in the first place to avoid being perceived as someone who puts an effort into his education because something like "working hard" was made into a racial negative.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So? If a kid describes themself that way, what difference does it make?

You really don't see a problem with that?

Obviously white people didn't invent the idea of hard work....that's cross cultural.

Secondly why would that be negative in any way. Do we only want white people to work hard?

No, but it's interesting how that's a cause for concern...

It is a cause for concern. Why are you only critical of one race or culture? Is that not the very core of all racism?

 

[Ana the Ist]

No they won't

Would it be fair to say that most of your opinions on CRT are based on media narratives?

How well do you know the genesis of concepts like "white privilege"?

 

[TLK Valentine]

It is a cause for concern. Why are you only critical of one race or culture? Is that not the very core of all racism?

Very presumptuous of you to say that about me -- if you were a censor, it might be problematic.

 

[coffee4u]

I've been going back and forth as to whether or not you're being sea lioned.

Can you explain what that term means ~ thanks.

I even googled and simply got animals. I am going to assume this is some kind of American slang?

 

[bekkilyn]

Can you explain what that term means ~ thanks.

I even googled and simply got animals. I am going to assume this is some kind of American slang?

It's probably more of an internet slang. It originated with this cartoon.

Also...

Sealioning - Wikipedia

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If this was about teaching history....it wouldn't be an issue.

Parents are going to board meetings complaining about the racial rhetoric injected into the lessons with terms like white supremacy, and white privilege.

Parents are reacting to inflammatory media, not to things they saw in their kids' schools. As for the use of terms like "white supremacy", it is an entirely objective fact of American History. Some may argue that the era of white supremacy is over and all is good now. But there is no doubt that it played a powerful role in the development of American society, and that repercussions of that effect are still visible today. Denying the existence of white supremacy in American history is like the Germans denying the existence of the Nazi era.