Crossroads GPS is a social welfare organization?

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a post by Alan Smithee
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I pointed out your question was looking for an answer that would be misleading.

You pointed out nothing. Pay attention, because we're going to drop this as Crossroads GPS and whether it's a social welfare organization or not is the subject, not me. I'll make it simple as possible and then we're done with it.

NOWHERE have I have suggested making 501(c)(4) organizations pay taxes.

Got it? Now let's get back on topic.

Crossroads GPS isn't exactly a PAC, they deal with policy issues which is what a 501(c)(4) is allowed to do.

Why do you keep repeating stuff like this and ignoring things I actuall cite from the IRS? (c)(4)'s are supposed to be exclusively dedicated to social welfare and the IRS has provided - and I have copied and pasted it to this thread at least once - examples. "Policy issues" groups are not listed. And any political activity (especially lobbying) is supposed to be directly related to and only advocate for the social welfare purpose of the group.

You're confusing American Crossroads (a 527) with Crossroads GPS.

Don't tell me I'm confusing something when I'm not.
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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Let's make this a little more interesting.

I'd always thought Moveon.org was a 501(c)(3)*, but learned earlier tonight it's a (c)(4). It's not a social welfare organization (IMO based on the things I've quoted off the IRS website) and thus shouldn't have (c)(4) status either.

Discuss.






* I'm not thrilled with politically active organizations like the American Family Association or Media Matters having (c)(3) status either, but at least they are religious or educational organizations in appearance.
 
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MachZer0

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Here, let try highlighting this time:
To be operated exclusively to promote social welfare, an organization must operate primarily to further the common good and general welfare of the people of the community (such as by bringing about civic betterment and social improvements). For example, an organization that restricts the use of its facilities to employees of selected corporations and their guests is primarily benefiting a private group rather than the community and, therefore, does not qualify as a section 501(c)(4) organization. Similarly, an organization formed to represent member-tenants of an apartment complex does not qualify, because its activities benefit the member-tenants and not all tenants in the community, while an organization formed to promote the legal rights of all tenants in a particular community may qualify under section 501(c)(4) as a social welfare organization.​
"We believe that when you scratch below the surface, most Americans want the same things: a broadly prosperous economy, better opportunities for our kids, retirement security and high-quality, affordable health care."
"We have discovered that most people support action on these issues, so we call it the New Majority Agenda, and you can read all about it here."
"If you share that vision, please check out the New Majority Agenda, sign up for our updates, fire off some letters and emails to the White House and Congress, tell your friends, and help write some brighter chapters in the history of America."



Yeah, I already addressed the context into which the lobbying has to fall in order to be considered acceptable under (c)(4) status.



I don't disagree with them per se. I disagree that their organization is exclusively dedicated to social welfare as defined by the numerous quotes from the IRS website I have provided (in fact examples were quoted in the very message to which you responded.
I would say that a broadly prosperous economy, better opportunities for our kids, retirement security and high-quality, affordable health care are social welfare issues. :wave:
 
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GarfieldJL

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You pointed out nothing. Pay attention, because we're going to drop this as Crossroads GPS and whether it's a social welfare organization or not is the subject, not me. I'll make it simple as possible and then we're done with it.

No we get it, we get it that because you don't agree with Crossroads GPS you want them to be silenced.

I've pointed out repeatedly that there are two different organizations...

American Crossroads is a 527, Crossroads GPS is a different group and is a 501(c)(4).

NOWHERE have I have suggested making 501(c)(4) organizations pay taxes.

You have been claiming that Crossroads GPS doesn't deserve it's tax-exempt status simply because you don't agree with them. You've been tieing what American Crossroads does to Crossroads GPS when they are two seperate groups.

Got it? Now let's get back on topic.

How about you stop playing word games.

Why do you keep repeating stuff like this and ignoring things I actuall cite from the IRS? (c)(4)'s are supposed to be exclusively dedicated to social welfare and the IRS has provided - and I have copied and pasted it to this thread at least once - examples. "Policy issues" groups are not listed. And any political activity (especially lobbying) is supposed to be directly related to and only advocate for the social welfare purpose of the group.

Seriously, I wouldn't consider either you nor me to be the best judge of what would be "social welfare." I'm well aware that have partisan leanings, and you also have partisan leanings (though I'm not entirely sure you're aware of them).

Don't tell me I'm confusing something when I'm not.

Or maybe you are confusing something and just don't realize it.
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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I would say that a broadly prosperous economy, better opportunities for our kids, retirement security and high-quality, affordable health care are social welfare issues.

You'd be wrong. Those a planks of a political platform. Thanks for playing though.

Some nonprofit organizations that qualify as social welfare organizations include:

An organization operating an airport that serves the general public in an area with no other airport and that is on land owned by a local government, which supervises the airport’s operation,
A community association that works to improve public services, housing and residential parking; publishes a free community newspaper; sponsors a community sports league, holiday programs and meetings; and contracts with a private security service to patrol the community,
A community association devoted to preserving the community’s traditions, architecture and appearance by representing it before the local legislature and administrative agencies in zoning, traffic and parking matters,
An organization that tries to encourage industrial development and relieve unemployment in an area by making loans to businesses so they will relocate to the area and
An organization that holds an annual festival of regional customs and traditions.​
 
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MachZer0

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You'd be wrong. Those a planks of a political platform. Thanks for playing though.
They could be planks for a political party, and they can also be the goals of a social organization
Some nonprofit organizations that qualify as social welfare organizations include:

An organization operating an airport that serves the general public in an area with no other airport and that is on land owned by a local government, which supervises the airport’s operation,
A community association that works to improve public services, housing and residential parking; publishes a free community newspaper; sponsors a community sports league, holiday programs and meetings; and contracts with a private security service to patrol the community,
A community association devoted to preserving the community’s traditions, architecture and appearance by representing it before the local legislature and administrative agencies in zoning, traffic and parking matters,
An organization that tries to encourage industrial development and relieve unemployment in an area by making loans to businesses so they will relocate to the area and
An organization that holds an annual festival of regional customs and traditions.
Noting that nothing suggests that list is all inclusive :wave:
 
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They could be planks for a political party, and they can also be the goals of a social organization

Not within the IRS guidelines I have repeatedly posted and you've chosen to ignore.

Noting that nothing suggests that list is all inclusive

Noting that the list of examples is a guideline as to what constitutes a social welfare organization and nothing in Crossroads GPS's statement of purpose resembles those guidelines nor specifies which community.
 
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No we get it, we get it that because you don't agree with Crossroads GPS you want them to be silenced.

Stop. Lying. About. Me.

I've pointed out repeatedly that there are two different organizations...

That's because you're not comprehending what I'm writing in plain English...

American Crossroads is a 527, Crossroads GPS is a different group and is a 501(c)(4).

...so let me try one more time. Crossroads GPS has claimed social welfare status, but it is not a social welfare organization, it's primary activity has been and continues to be political.
On eve of Tea Party scandal, IRS discussed criminal probes | OnPolitics
In the 2012 election, tax-exempt social welfare groups spent more than $254 million on last-minute advertising to shape the outcome of the presidential and congressional elections, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Leading the pack was Crossroads GPS, a group co-founded by former George W. Bush political aide Karl Rove. In 2012, the IRS released a copy of Crossroads’ tax-exemption application to Pro Publica, revealing that Crossroads had promised its political activities would be “limited.”​

And taking the link to ProPublica's page:
Karl Rove’s Dark Money Group Promised IRS It Would Spend ‘Limited’ Money on Elections - ProPublica
In a confidential 2010 filing, Crossroads GPS — the dark money group that spent more than $70 million from anonymous donors on the 2012 election — told the Internal Revenue Service that its efforts would focus on public education, research and shaping legislation and policy.
----------
Crossroads' breakdown of planned activities said it would focus half its efforts on "public education," 30 percent on "activity to influence legislation and policymaking" and 20 percent on "research," including sponsoring "in-depth policy research on significant issues."

This seems at odds with much of what the group has done since filing the application, experts said. Within two months of filing its application, Crossroads spent about $15.5 million on ads...
----------
American Crossroads, which does identify its donors, spent almost $105 million on election ads in the 2012 cycle. For its part, Crossroads GPS poured more than $70 million into ads and phone calls urging voters to pick Republicans — outlays that were reported to the Federal Election Commission. It also announced spending an additional $50 million on ads critical of President Barack Obama that ran outside the FEC's reporting window.
----------
It's impossible to know precisely how Crossroads has directed its efforts, but the breakdown of expenses on its tax returns from June 2010 to December 2011 gives some indications.

During those 19 months, Crossroads spent a total of $64.7 million, of which $1.4 million — or just 2 percent — was identified as being spent on research. That compares with the 20 percent of effort Crossroads said it would devote to research in its application.

See the color coded part Garfield? See where they show that Crossroads GPS spent more in total on phone banks, postive and attack ads than American Crossroads did? Are any of these facts getting through to you?

You have been claiming that Crossroads GPS doesn't deserve it's tax-exempt status...

Unless, by "status" you mean 501(c)(4) as opposed to a different "status", this is another lie about me.

...simply because yo don't agree with them.

This simply is a lie about me.

You've been tieing what American Crossroads does to Crossroads GPS when they are two seperate groups.

I've shown from the beginning that I know what I'm talking about.

How about you stop playing word games.

How about you start abiding by the rules of the forum?

Seriously, I wouldn't consider either you nor me to be the best judge of what would be "social welfare."

I'm not judging in a vacuum dude. I'm going by the IRS regulations and by the IRS examples of what consitutes a social welfare organization. You might have noticed the repeated times I have quoted from the IRS website... or maybe you haven't. It's hard to tell when you want to make me the subject of my thread instead of the actual topic.

I'm well aware that have partisan leanings, and you also have partisan leanings (though I'm not entirely sure you're aware of them).

Or maybe you are confusing something and just don't realize it.
^^^ Of which these responses are a perfect example.
 
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MachZer0

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Not within the IRS guidelines I have repeatedly posted and you've chosen to ignore.



Noting that the list of examples is a guideline as to what constitutes a social welfare organization and nothing in Crossroads GPS's statement of purpose resembles those guidelines nor specifies which community.
Yes, examples. You proved yourself wrong :wave:
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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I would say that a broadly prosperous economy, better opportunities for our kids, retirement security and high-quality, affordable health care are social welfare issues.

What about this? Is this a social welfare issue?
lower the barriers to participation in our democracy, so real Americans have a voice in a political process where big money and corporate lobbyists wield too much influence.​
 
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MachZer0

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What about this? Is this a social welfare issue?
lower the barriers to participation in our democracy, so real Americans have a voice in a political process where big money and corporate lobbyists wield too much influence.​
It certainly could be
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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Perhaps it seems that way sense the notion presented in the OP makes no sense

You're a magnificent witness for Christ.

It certainly could be

Kudos on your consistency then. That's part of the mission statement for MoveOn.org.

I've concluded, based on the guidelines and examples that neither Crossroads GPS nor Move On are social welfare organizations.
 
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MachZer0

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You're a magnificent witness for Christ.
Truth telling is always the best approach :wave:


Kudos on your consistency then. That's part of the mission statement for MoveOn.org.

I've concluded, based on the guidelines and examples that neither Crossroads GPS nor Move On are social welfare organizations.
It seems I have a better understanding of the IRS rules than some do :thumbsup:
 
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