crossover with wof

[hopeinGod]

If a person received from God at one time,and then it stopped why would they assume it was the will of God?

The halting of experiences is not the loss of salvation, as some would believe. Justification by grace is forever. My central belief is, "Though the fig tree shall not blossom, though there be no herd in the stalls, though the labor of the olive fail, and the field shall yield no meat; though the flock be cut off from the fold and there be no fruit on the vine; yet will I rejoice in the Lord." There need not be experience for me to maintain belief in God's love from which nothing can separate me, not even the lack of experience.

That is true arrogance, to discount others Faith as greed and piety, because your faith has failed.

My faith may not be in what you think it ought to be. I have a perspective that allows for the good, bad, and ugly, all by the predestined will of God. (Read above)

Show me Good in sickness and poverty,I am amazed at the God of self pity people serve.

(Read above) Today's faith camps have brought to us a new era, "The Age of Entitlement." Like "The Age of Enlightenment," it too is a broad road.

I am thank full Peter did not give up,he could have after he denied Christ three times.

What is "giving up" to you? Giving up on a movement is often very appropriate.

 

[now faith]

If a person received from God at one time,and then it stopped why would they assume it was the will of God?

The halting of experiences is not the loss of salvation, as some would believe. Justification by grace is forever. My central belief is, "Though the fig tree shall not blossom, though there be no herd in the stalls, though the labor of the olive fail, and the field shall yield no meat; though the flock be cut off from the fold and there be no fruit on the vine; yet will I rejoice in the Lord." There need not be experience for me to maintain belief in God's love from which nothing can separate me, not even the lack of experience.

That is true arrogance, to discount others Faith as greed and piety, because your faith has failed.

My faith may not be in what you think it ought to be. I have a perspective that allows for the good, bad, and ugly, all by the predestined will of God. (Read above)

Show me Good in sickness and poverty,I am amazed at the God of self pity people serve.

(Read above) Today's faith camps have brought to us a new era, "The Age of Entitlement." Like "The Age of Enlightenment," it too is a broad road.

I am thank full Peter did not give up,he could have after he denied Christ three times.

What is "giving up" to you? Giving up on a movement is often very appropriate.

So you are neither hot nor cold,just trying to warm a Pew.
I do not consider it to be entitlement, by believing the promises of God.
With out faith it is impossible to please God.
Where do you draw the line? What am I supposed to limit faith in God to your opinion, if I go outside your opinion I have a sense of entitlement.
All of your I cants simply mean you won't believe in the provisions of Gods goodness.
So stay Luke warm and keep your fire insurance,as for me all things are possible through Christ who strengthens me.

 

[hopeinGod]

So you are neither hot nor cold,just trying to warm a Pew.
I do not consider it to be entitlement, by believing the promises of God.
With out faith it is impossible to please God.
Where do you draw the line? What am I supposed to limit faith in God to your opinion, if I go outside your opinion I have a sense of entitlement.
All of your I cants simply mean you won't believe in the provisions of Gods goodness.
So stay Luke warm and keep your fire insurance,as for me all things are possible through Christ who strengthens me.

It's not lukewarmness, but a waiting on the true movement of God that I seek. What is it you think God owes you? He owes you absolutely nothing. The sooner the church comes to grips with it's state, the sooner real healing and movement of God's Spirit can take place.

One minister who finally saw the true fruit of Charismania wrote this: We, the leaders of the charismatic church, have built on hype, sensation, innovation, programs, personality and charisma. This has produced: shallowness; false movements; novice leaders— gifted but immature and untested; a deficient understanding of God’s word; the building of man-centered rather than kingdom- centered churches and ministries; competition rather than cooperation; humanistic, self-centered Christians who don’t understand sacrifice and commitment; Christians without discernment; superstar leaders; a perverted and powerless gospel; prayerless and anemic Christians; a replacement of the fear of the Lord with the fear of man; and a young generation that is cynical of it all. We are responsible, not the devil; he takes what we give him. For this compromise in the way we build, for giving the Church watered down wine, commercial Christianity, a flashy but weak Church and hype disguised as anointing, I repent to God and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ. Galatians 6:1-5 is an appropriate reference with which to end this statement: “Brethren, even if a man caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. For each one shall bear his own load.” NAS My passionate prayer is that God honors this repentance — I believe He led me to do it and therefore, will—and uses it to begin a process of cleansing and healing for all of us. In order for the coming great awakening to bear maximum fruit we must have both, as well as a course correction that sets us on a path of wisdom leading to life. There is no doubt that past moves of God have been aborted, ended prematurely and contained error or heresy that have wounded, if not destroyed, many. The healing revival of the 40’s and 50’s, the charismatic movement, discipleship movement and Jesus movement are all examples. My heart is to help shape a movement, the fruit of which will last for decades — better yet, forever. And I have great expectations for us—I am not a cynic.

 

[now faith]

It's not what God owes me but rather what I owe him.
All he has done was finished on the cross,I can never repay the debt nor do I have to.
Simply love The Lord God with all your heart.
God does not change and does not need your help,are you so wise to condem my faith in God,but go to say you want to help God with a true religion.
Sounds like a cult, or Ellen White or Joseph Smith.
Is it so hard to believe his living Word with out rewriting it?or thinking you know better.
It's way past your pay grade,it is finished until the last trumpet sounds.

7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous ? 9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him.

 

[lismore]

Speaking to the mountain instead of asking God

'What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer?'

But instead of asking God and having fellowship with him, we can go around talking to inanimate objects. I think the conversation might be one way.

 

[GreatistheLord]

'What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer?'

But instead of asking God and having fellowship with him, we can go around talking to inanimate objects. I think the conversation might be one way.

Not my words, and definately not what Jesus meant. But Feel free to start your own religion

 

[GreatistheLord]

'What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer?'

But instead of asking God and having fellowship with him, we can go around talking to inanimate objects. I think the conversation might be one way.

Just to make a concrete example, if you suffer a demonic attack at night, do you

A) ask God to take away
B) start a conversation with it
C) command it to go in the name of Jesus

. .?

 

[lismore]

Just to make a concrete example, if you suffer a demonic attack at night, do you

A) ask God to take away
B) start a conversation with it
C) command it to go in the name of Jesus

. .?

Hello

My view would be A then C. A in the sense of talking to God first before doing anything else. I hope from this that you better understand my viewpoint.

God Bless

 

[now faith]

Just to make a concrete example, if you suffer a demonic attack at night, do you

A) ask God to take away
B) start a conversation with it
C) command it to go in the name of Jesus

. .?

C,but of all things the question appears to be out of personal experience.
But some would consider it arrogant to use Christian authority,or pride full.
Or maybe name it and claim it!!!!

 

[lismore]

C,but of all things the question appears to be out of personal experience.
But some would consider it arrogant to use Christian authority,or pride full.
Or maybe name it and claim it!!!!

Then again the Lord did say:

He replied, "This kind can come out only by prayer." (Mark 9:29).

Prayer to the Lord should be the first recourse of the Christian.

That's my problem with some branches of the WOF, they seem to take God out of the equation. YOUR authority, YOUR confession...............all about you!

But it's not about you, it's all about God.

 

[now faith]

Then again the Lord did say:

He replied, "This kind can come out only by prayer." (Mark 9:29).

Prayer to the Lord should be the first recourse of the Christian.

That's my problem with some branches of the WOF, they seem to take God out of the equation. YOUR authority, YOUR confession...............all about you!

But it's not about you, it's all about God.

Yes and no, we believe that by faith in Christ through the promises of The living word of god we create our own destiny. We believe if God said we can then bless God we can.
The misconception is that we concoct methods for personal promotion.
We live to give God the glory,not of our selves. But its hard to glorify God when you put conditions on his word, and are sicker, poorer ,beat down and in worse condition than the sinner you are witnessing to. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
We do have freewill to create our Destiny,you can believe in all the promises of God walk by faith,step out and spread the good news or put conditions that do not exist on the promises,live in fear and stay home your choice.
When it comes to the promises of God when you say I can't what you are saying is I won't. Simply put it is about faith in God,the measure of faith you have.
You will not displease God by believing beyond what you can see.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[hopeinGod]

All that goes into being a WOF devotee comes down to nothing more than one striving to have all his i's dotted and t's crossed, part of what it takes to keep those systems of procuring promises on the straight and narrow in an effort by the creation to force the hand of its Creator to move.

WOF trust is in the methodology, and has absolutely no concern for the judgments of God, for when the answer is "no," all the believer can think is that the devil is in the way of their receiving, or that they don't have the amount of faith needed to force God to comply.

The entire principle of judgment, where God orders His people's steps -- for the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, not by himself -- is thrown out when one thinks he/she can literally take over. To the WOFite, it doesn't matter what God has in mind for that person, but what they have directed for themselves by speaking into existence anything and everything that comes to their minds, oftentimes to consume it upon their own lusts.

 

[Faulty]

We live to give God the glory,not of our selves. But its hard to glorify God when you put conditions on his word, and are sicker, poorer ,beat down and in worse condition than the sinner you are witnessing to. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

This isn't true at all, unless what you are offering people is only temporary health and wealth.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16). This is what believers have in spades; a word that cuts through a person's circumstances and into their very soul, and it makes no difference if the person speaking it has a smaller bank account and/or physical illness. Paul even proves this when he's laid up sick in Galatia. It's the gospel word that has the power to convict through the working of the Spirit, and not through the price of the suit of the man speaking those words.

Of course, if your message is "look and see all this cool stuff God gave me, He can give you stuff too", then yea, it would help being more healthy and wealthy as it would appeal more to their sin nature, but in the end, they'll still end up in hell because there is no forgiveness in health and wealth.

 

[lismore]

But its hard to glorify God when you put conditions on his word, and are sicker, poorer ,beat down and in worse condition than the sinner you are witnessing to.

And yet some of the prophets in the bible, dressed in a poor man's clothes stood before Kings in their palaces and testified about the Lord and his righteousness.

You can be poor but make many rich

There is a danger in extreme views of any kind, the extreme prosperity gospel is a danger IMO.

 

[hopeinGod]

I listened to R.C. Sproul's teaching on predestination recently. His position seems well proven in Scripture, but so is salvation by grace/free will.

Predestination: Jacob have I loved; Esau have I hated...for it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure

Grace/free will: For as many as call upon the Lord shall be saved....choose this day whom ye shall serve

As one who leans much toward evangelism, and who realizes God sets up even evangelists for the perfecting of the saints, I like Marrowism best.

 

[now faith]

This isn't true at all, unless what you are offering people is only temporary health and wealth.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16). This is what believers have in spades; a word that cuts through a person's circumstances and into their very soul, and it makes no difference if the person speaking it has a smaller bank account and/or physical illness. Paul even proves this when he's laid up sick in Galatia. It's the gospel word that has the power to convict through the working of the Spirit, and not through the price of the suit of the man speaking those words.

Of course, if your message is "look and see all this cool stuff God gave me, He can give you stuff too", then yea, it would help being more healthy and wealthy as it would appeal more to their sin nature, but in the end, they'll still end up in hell because there is no forgiveness in health and wealth.

Why do you beat this dead horse,this view is is distorted.
Do you own anything or just run around naked?
Do you give to missions? Who decides for you how much?
Who tells you how big of house to live in?
If you live in a house,a man living in a box may say about all the cool indoor plumbing you have.
Who decides your prosperity or mine? Why is your humble life style more Godly than mine.
It is outrageous to obsess over what others have,or to be caught in the pride of look how humble I am and your faith is for personal gain but not mine!
You can sin over 5 dollars so how and who sets the standard.
These debates are to the point of silly, constant judgements on people you don't even know what their role in the body of Christ is.
Andy Kaufman would be proud of this comedy act.

 

[now faith]

NI

I listened to R.C. Sproul's teaching on predestination recently. His position seems well proven in Scripture, but so is salvation by grace/free will.

Predestination: Jacob have I loved; Esau have I hated...for it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure

Grace/free will: For as many as call upon the Lord shall be saved....choose this day whom ye shall serve

As one who leans much toward evangelism, and who realizes God sets up even evangelists for the perfecting of the saints, I like Marrowism best.

How are you going to evangelize,by speaking against prosperity?
Prosperity being spiritual physical financial.
You stated you want to promote a new movement with what? Credit debt and good intent.
All that Im wasting my time saying is that WOF applies Kingdom principal to spreading Gods word and bringing people to the glorious knowledge of Christ.
How can you let your light shine if you cant get out side the walls of a small church? Faulty used Paul as a reference to poorer is better for the Gospel lets look at how Paul taught on need of money.
Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 4:14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. 4:16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. 4:17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. 4:18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Paul had all he needed at that time,but he commended their giving for their sakes.
Quote but I desire fruit that may abound to you account.
That is Gods promise give and it shall be given unto you.
Paul received seed into his ministry,all the apostles did they could not have carried out the Gospel without it.
Do you want to Evangelize to twenty or twenty thousand?
Money is nothing more than a tool to minister,as well as the spiritual gifts
A grasp that Christian authority is not pride but promise.
And to understand Satan will decieve you away from your calling by telling you your means are sinful.
It takes great faith to bring forth great fruit.
I truly pray your calling is fulfilled,I am weary of this constant debate.
God bless you my friend.

 

[hopeinGod]

NI

How are you going to evangelize,by speaking against prosperity?
Prosperity being spiritual physical financial...........

You certainly lost me on whatever it is you're attempting to convey, which seems to be saturated in bitterness. Take a deep breath, relax, and try again.

 

[GreatistheLord]

Prayer is vital, relationship is vital, but there is a clear directive in the Word to directly resist the devil. Jesus in the wilderness used the Word as a weapon in defeating Satan, and it is our example. Not to replace prayer, but lets not pretend God gave us a mixed message, we re to speak to the mountain.

. Be blessed, and remember we have authority because of our position in Christ, and submission to God . James 4:7

 

[now faith]

You certainly lost me on whatever it is you're attempting to convey, which seems to be saturated in bitterness. Take a deep breath, relax, and try again.

Bitterness naw just bored with redundancy,and a pious post like this
{Quote} the WOFite, it doesn't matter what God has in mind for that person, but what they have directed for themselves by speaking into existence anything and everything that comes to their minds, oftentimes to consume it upon their own lusts.

So if i seem bitter I may just be weary of my faith being bashed.