Criticizing Islam

[light upon light]

I see three worlds of reality.

The first world is perfection, unconditional love, archetypes, mystical union, Oneness, True Reality.

The second world is the world of human individual and collective consciousness.

The third world is the framework of matter and energy, call it the physical universe.

The first and third worlds are, in and of themselves perfect. It is the second world, where human consciousness lies, where conflict and violence and imperfection emerge. Some call it "sin".

Our task is to uplift the consciousness of human beings, to recreate this second world of human concepts, society, relationships, and egos. To enlighten this second world. As the second world is uplifted, taking on the beauty and love of the first world (which Christ called the Kingdom), we will concomitantly heal and repair the physical world and turn toxic waste dumps and clear-cut lands and factories producing killing machines into art museums and national parks and factories to produce useful and necessary goods.

We can see the spiritual evolutionary imperative at work - what was previously acceptable is now seen as unacceptable: slavery, the subjugation of women, killing people over religious differences, and attitudes of racial superiority are now no longer sanctioned and countenanced viewpoints. The human species is growing up, albeit in fits and starts, with mistakes and missteps along the way. I feel sure that all countries and communities will, sooner or later, embrace these truths.

 

[WoodrowX2]

its mob rule and has very little to do with anything except mob rule.Some people just look for any excuse to form a mob and bully.I daresay most in the mob didnt know why they where there.Its more of a case of id better join in or they may turn on me .Thats the problem with Islam you get the impression that most of its followers are only in it because they are scared to leave.Very Sad

While there may be some Muslims that are followers because they are scared to leave, I doubt if that is most.

I believe most of us stay Muslim for the simple reason we believe it is the revealed way to worship.

It is almost ridiculous to force a person to remain Muslim against their will. that is an oxymoron as to be Muslim one must firmly believe Islam is the Truth. Without that belief you can not be Muslim

Now the next problem is you can not tell from physical signs who is or is not a Muslim. there is nothing one most do publicly to show they are Muslim. Being Muslim is quite personal and is an individual commitment to Allaah(swt)

As for mob rule, I have seen that in every Nation I have ever lived in or stayed for any extended time.

I'm old enough to still remember the KKK lynch mobs here in the USA. I also remember the Watts Riots and the "Race Riot" in Shreveport La. Many people took part in them for the same reason you mention "better join in or they may turn on me" which is normal in any group and not reflective of any religion.

 

[TG123]

While there may be some Muslims that are followers because they are scared to leave, I doubt if that is most.

I believe most of us stay Muslim for the simple reason we believe it is the revealed way to worship.

It is almost ridiculous to force a person to remain Muslim against their will. that is an oxymoron as to be Muslim one must firmly believe Islam is the Truth. Without that belief you can not be Muslim

Now the next problem is you can not tell from physical signs who is or is not a Muslim. there is nothing one most do publicly to show they are Muslim. Being Muslim is quite personal and is an individual commitment to Allaah(swt)

As for mob rule, I have seen that in every Nation I have ever lived in or stayed for any extended time.

I'm old enough to still remember the KKK lynch mobs here in the USA. I also remember the Watts Riots and the "Race Riot" in Shreveport La. Many people took part in them for the same reason you mention "better join in or they may turn on me" which is normal in any group and not reflective of any religion.

Great points, my friend.

 

[wn123455]

It's hard to criticize islamism without being called an islamophobe.

 

[WoodrowX2]

It's hard to criticize islamism without being called an islamophobe.

TG123 does very well. However he criticizes without attacking. He uses facts not stereotypical concepts from hate sites.

He knows how to criticize without anger or malice.

He and I can disagree and be friends.

 

[wn123455]

TG123 does very well. However he criticizes without attacking. He uses facts not stereotypical concepts from hate sites.

He knows how to criticize without anger or malice.

He and I can disagree and be friends.

Hate site is sometimes used as a term used for websites people disagree with.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Hate site is sometimes used as a term used for websites people disagree with.

I see a hate site as one that has a specific agenda to debase a specific group of people. All they offer are stories that tend to demonize the group they hate. It often becomes obvious they do not verify the stories they put up. they put any and all accusations up and leave it to the viewer to verify the truth of them.

Their typical tactic is to overwhelm with volume as many people tend to equate quantity with quality

 

[wn123455]

I see a hate site as one that has a specific agenda to debase a specific group of people. All they offer are stories that tend to demonize the group they hate. It often becomes obvious they do not verify the stories they put up. they put any and all accusations up and leave it to the viewer to verify the truth of them.

Their typical tactic is to overwhelm with volume as many people tend to equate quantity with quality

For a moment I though you were talking about al jazeera arabic.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Hate site is sometimes used as a term used for websites people disagree with.

I see a hate site as one that has a specific agenda to debase a specific group of people. All they offer are stories that tend to demonize the group they hate. It often becomes obvious they do not verify the stories they put up. they put any and all accusations up and leave it to the viewer to verify the truth of them.

Their typical tactic is to overwhelm with volume as many people tend to equate quantity with quality

 

[smaneck]

It's hard to criticize islamism without being called an islamophobe.

Not hard at all if you know the difference between Islam and Islamism.

 

[TG123]

TG123 does very well. However he criticizes without attacking. He uses facts not stereotypical concepts from hate sites.

He knows how to criticize without anger or malice.

He and I can disagree and be friends.

Thanks, WoodrowX2. I appreciate that.

 

[wn123455]

Not hard at all if you know the difference between Islam and Islamism.

What is your definition of islam and islamism professor smaneck? Most muslims are sunni. sunni is the islam sect with the most islamists.

 

[smaneck]

What is your definition of islam and islamism professor smaneck?

Islam is the religion associated with the Prophet Muhammad, unless of course you are speaking of islam in the generic sense of anyone who submits to God. Islamism, on the other hand, refers to the use of Islam as a political ideology.

Most muslims are sunni. sunni is the islam sect with the most islamists.

LOL. Only because Sunni Muslims are in the majority. An Islamist can be either Sunni or Shi'ite. Khomeini was an Islamist.

 

[wn123455]

Islam is the religion associated with the Prophet Muhammad, unless of course you are speaking of islam in the generic sense of anyone who submits to God. Islamism, on the other hand, refers to the use of Islam as a political ideology.



LOL. Only because Sunni Muslims are in the majority. An Islamist can be either Sunni or Shi'ite. Khomeini was an Islamist.

There are shia islamists as well. But there are hardly any Ahmadiyya islamists.

 

[smaneck]

There are shia islamists as well. But there are hardly any Ahmadiyya islamists.

That's the advantage of having a living Khalifah. They can't get anymore radical than he is. Same thing with the Ismaelis.

 

[dazed]

Islam is the religion associated with the Prophet Muhammad, unless of course you are speaking of islam in the generic sense of anyone who submits to God. Islamism, on the other hand, refers to the use of Islam as a political ideology.

Wouldn't that make most Muslims Islamists? Unless you live in an isolated island by yourself, you will have political ideology.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Wouldn't that make most Muslims Islamists? Unless you live in an isolated island by yourself, you will have political ideology.

One thing that is not well know known, we are to abstain from a political stand unless we are in an Islamic Nation. There seems to be a thought that if we are active politically in a non-Muslim land we become part of a government that allows forbidden acts. Such as the sale of alcohol etc.

A Muslim could not run for president of the USA if he actually followed Islam.

 

[LoAmmi]

One thing that is not well know known, we are to abstain from a political stand unless we are in an Islamic Nation. There seems to be a thought that if we are active politically in a non-Muslim land we become part of a government that allows forbidden acts. Such as the sale of alcohol etc.

A Muslim could not run for president of the USA if he actually followed Islam.

Is voting in elections ok though?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Is voting in elections ok though?

A person pretty much has to follow his own conscious regarding voting. Many perhaps most Muslim living in non-Islamic lands feel they should not.

I am part of a minority that believes we should vote.

 

[Dialogues]

That's the advantage of having a living Khalifah. They can't get anymore radical than he is.

There is much unity that comes from having a loved Imam of everyone in the community. Infact, it is inconceivable to think of more than one Imam leading the salaat at the same time, and likewise with the global leadership of a community, if it is to remain united and organised. Hence we believe Ahmadiyya to be the one Jama'at prophecied by the Holy Prophet s.a. to appear in the latter days at a time when there would be 73 sects in Islam.

If a person sees more than one sun in the sky in a dream, it is interpreted to mean the spread of religious innovations; this is probably because two leaders will likely have some differing viewpoints and commands, and their own followers, and conflicts will result in ideology (and more besides). The symbolism of the world of dreams is a very interesting one, and a vast subject in it's own right.

The main reason why there aren't any 'radicals' (I personally know of no exceptions, and I doubt any who 'radicalise' would remain an Ahmadi for long anyway) among the tens of millions of Ahmadi Muslims is essentially because the understanding and explanation of the Holy Qur'an and the Practice/Sunnah of the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a. that has been given by the founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is of it being a moderate path, the middle way between two extremes. Hence we are neither fanatical extremists nor liberal extremists.

Peace.