**Crickets**

[JohnMarsten]

I get it, your doctrine depends on seven literal day.

Like I explained before...I believe in seven literal days, but not in reference to the sun and moon of earth.
If you can prove that the earth sun and moon were present on the first day, please do it, and I'll have to reconsider everything.

(With respect to this thread why dont you just refresh that other thread, and we can revisit what each verse in Gen 1 says.)

If you just want to argue what definition of english translated words, you'll never understand God's how vast creation is.

Go ahead make my day.

yeah thats true, what most people dont realize is the fact that our days our governed by the sun and the moon, yet even before their creation sections of creation were called days, for me its not a salvational issue whether it was six 24hour periods or not...

It is God who is the Creator and that counts... in heaven though we should get all the answers!

 

[JohnMarsten]

I suppose Christmas doesn't seem to be about Christ to Adventists. Understandable since you all don't go have an Advent season leading up to the holiday, or go to church on Christmas like most Christians.

I get what you mean, the thing is that SDA similar to other denoms put more value on the origins of Christmas, it was a pagan holiday that turned christian at some time...

Personally I guess that the pagan holiday was celebrated in a different way that christmas is celebrated today...

I think I will never be able to come up with a religious feeling in regard to christmas. What is more I guess that christmas doesnt necessarily bring people closer to Jesus, its more for the people to have some time off, time to meet up, celebrate, gifts for kids etc.

eventually I am quite happy that there are a few days off work... its actually quite nice when there is snow all around, and youre sitting at home, warm and cozy,

 

[Cribstyl]

yeah thats true, what most people dont realize is the fact that our days our governed by the sun and the moon, yet even before their creation sections of creation were called days, for me its not a salvational issue whether it was six 24hour periods or not...

It is God who is the Creator and that counts... in heaven though we should get all the answers!

True, And God's word is where we're to find all the answers to our questions.
Some people's faith depends on 7/24hrs days. My faith depends only on the word of God.
We have to believe and try to understand the explanation given by Moses about each creation day.


Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Gen 1:14¶And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

These text explains in details the day when, how and why God made the sun and moon.

(Some people would rather write books that exhaustively expounds on translating "one word" to establish their doctrine and completely ignor these scriptures. )


God is saying "on the third day, "I made 2 great lights" which are the sun and the moon. Then I set them in the heavens to give light on earth.

Did I make that all up or can we find those word in Genesis chapter1???
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other scriptures confirm the order of God's creation as given in Genesis 1.

Read this chapters and see a historical sequences of world event.

Psa 136:5 This verse comfirm the sun and moon was made........First the heavens, then the earth, then the great lights (plural), sun, moon, etc. The following events are also in chronical order. (My point is that the sun and moon were made after the heaven and the earth.)

 

[JohnMarsten]

True, And God's word is where we're to find all the answers to our questions.
Some people's faith depends on 7/24hrs days. My faith depends only on the word of God.
We have to believe and try to understand the explanation given by Moses about each creation day.


Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Gen 1:14¶And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

These text explains in details the day when, how and why God made the sun and moon.

(Some people would rather write books that exhaustively expounds on translating "one word" to establish their doctrine and completely ignor these scriptures. )


God is saying "on the third day, "I made 2 great lights" which are the sun and the moon. Then I set them in the heavens to give light on earth.

Did I make that all up or can we find those word in Genesis chapter1???
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other scriptures confirm the order of God's creation as given in Genesis 1.

Read this chapters and see a historical sequences of world event.

Psa 136:5 This verse comfirm the sun and moon was made........First the heavens, then the earth, then the great lights (plural), sun, moon, etc. The following events are also in chronical order. (My point is that the sun and moon were made after the heaven and the earth.)

I once heard a theory based on genesis 1,1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

in that the word formless could also be translated with chaos (maybe someone can confirm that... I dont have any knowledge of the old languages). Claiming that God wouldnt have created chaos as such as He was the Creator of order. Now that chaos thing, would be the remains of another world that has been destroyed before our civilization. I dont necessarily agree with that (how can I, I wasnt there)...

similar thing we find in Jeremiah

1. Jeremiah 4:23
   I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone.
   Jeremiah 4:22-24 (in Context) Jeremiah 4 (Whole Chapter)

its actually the only other verse that has the word formless...

 

[ricker]

I get what you mean, the thing is that SDA similar to other denoms put more value on the origins of Christmas, it was a pagan holiday that turned christian at some time...

Personally I guess that the pagan holiday was celebrated in a different way that christmas is celebrated today...

I think I will never be able to come up with a religious feeling in regard to christmas. What is more I guess that christmas doesnt necessarily bring people closer to Jesus, its more for the people to have some time off, time to meet up, celebrate, gifts for kids etc.

eventually I am quite happy that there are a few days off work... its actually quite nice when there is snow all around, and youre sitting at home, warm and cozy,

If a person takes Jesus out of the holiday season, I guess all that would be left would be a pagan kind of thing.


Christmas is a holiday that maybe has non-biblical origions.

We all have traditions that aren't specifically Biblical. What about Ingathering, Pathfinders, Sabbath school, colporteurs, Tithing going to the conference, pews, campmeetings, general conferences, special music, potlucks, vespers, Wed. Bible study, lecturns, church vote for baptism, church libraries, church schools, church boards. etc, etc, etc.

Were the beginnings of some of these maybe influenced by things of a secular or pagan nature? They aren't in the Bible. They aren't bad. Neither is Christmas if observed in a rational way.

That said you have every right to observe or not any holiday you choose. One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Time to put this thread to bed... it'll soon be time for my anti-easter thread to begin.

 

[ricker]

Time to put this thread to bed... it'll soon be time for my anti-easter thread to begin.

You can start with how the season of Lent, which leads up to Easter, with it's tradition of prayer, repentence and self denial is a bad, bad thing.

 

[Stryder06]

I get it, your doctrine depends on seven literal day.

No my docrtine doesn't. God being God does. He said 7 days. If it wasn't 7 days, and was indeed several billion years, God is a liar. That's the cold hard fact Crib. So either you're right or God is, and I'm going to side with God.

Like I explained before...I believe in seven literal days, but not in reference to the sun and moon of earth.
If you can prove that the earth sun and moon were present on the first day, please do it, and I'll have to reconsider everything.

(With respect to this thread why dont you just refresh that other thread, and we can revisit what each verse in Gen 1 says.)

If you just want to argue what definition of english translated words, you'll never understand God's how vast creation is.

Go ahead make my day.

I'm not going to argue this with you because it'd be pointless. I'm just hoping you'll see what you're insinuating. You harp on us about not taking the word of God for what it is, and how we use commentary to back up what we believe, and yet, in the next breath, you say that creation took place over a span of time longer than what the bible says.

 

[Cribstyl]

No my docrtine doesn't.

Oh Yes it does, you're the one not telling the truth. Styder, you're a Seventh day Adventist.
Dude, please say something true to get back on track.

God being God does. He said 7 days. If it wasn't 7 days, and was indeed several billion years, God is a liar. That's the cold hard fact Crib. So either you're right or God is, and I'm going to side with God.

First of all, you have your reasons to quote me out of context. I clarified to you over and over that I agree with the scriptures account; that God created the world in 7days. I disagreed that is was 7/24hr days.
In my responses, I used God's qoutes to show when the 2 light was made to give us 24hr days.
The cold hard fact is, God's days are not 24hr days.
If God lived on earth in creation you might have an argument.
The cold hard fact is this..2Pe 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
You're a professional, I'm sure you can argue your way out of calling God a liar for not limiting his days to 24hrs.

When I asked you in that other thread; why did Adam not surely die in the 24hrs day that he ate the fruit? You responded with commentary about the plan of redemption kicking in and Adam being denied immortallity.


The fact is God said "in the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die." The fact is, in that 24hr day God restricted his access to the tree of life. And Adam died within 1000yrs. God cannot lie.

I'm not going to argue this with you because it'd be pointless. I'm just hoping you'll see what you're insinuating. You harp on us about not taking the word of God for what it is, and how we use commentary to back up what we believe, and yet, in the next breath, you say that creation took place over a span of time longer than what the bible says.

You imported this dead argument into this thread Stryder, I asked you to start a fresh thread. As ususal you have no scriptures to settle issues just arguments insults and commentary.

 

[mmksparbud]

Can't more more than 24 hours out of the evening and the morning thing--that's what God said and that settles it, as far as I'm concerned. He rested the 7th day--He didn't ask for us to rest for 1000 years--one day. And as for the sun and moon not coming into existance until later--that right--and something that physists are just now studying--light--not sun light--light. I just finished another thread on this--I think maybe you might be able to just google light and see if these articles come up--my feeble brain can't remember where I read it. But it was highly scientific, not theology. For the 1st time, it made sense that yes, there was a dark and there was light before the sun and moon were created. They also were discussing the power of sound. No theology involved either--just science--which is one reason I can't re-phrase what they said with my feeble 61 yr old foggy brain. But light and sound was the discussion and, being a Christian, I applied it to the creation and it made so much more sense--God spoke and it was done--the power of His voice, the sounds He makes--the wave lengths--and POW!!--the big bang theory is right! He spoke and the bang of creation occured!! Wow! He is awesome!n 6 days, that's all He decided to do it in. Could He have made it in less????-----I think sooo---He just wanted to give us a 6 day work week with one day of rest, as He knew we would need it.

 

[Stryder06]

Oh Yes it does, you're the one not telling the truth. Styder, you're a Seventh day Adventist.
Dude, please say something true to get back on track.

First of all, you have your reasons to quote me out of context. I clarified to you over and over that I agree with the scriptures account; that God created the world in 7days. I disagreed that is was 7/24hr days.
In my responses, I used God's qoutes to show when the 2 light was made to give us 24hr days.
The cold hard fact is, God's days are not 24hr days.
If God lived on earth in creation you might have an argument.
The cold hard fact is this..2Pe 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
You're a professional, I'm sure you can argue your way out of calling God a liar for not limiting his days to 24hrs.

When I asked you in that other thread; why did Adam not surely die in the 24hrs day that he ate the fruit? You responded with commentary about the plan of redemption kicking in and Adam being denied immortallity.


The fact is God said "in the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die." The fact is, in that 24hr day God restricted his access to the tree of life. And Adam died within 1000yrs. God cannot lie.

You imported this dead argument into this thread Stryder, I asked you to start a fresh thread. As ususal you have no scriptures to settle issues just arguments insults and commentary.

You're right Crib. My arrogance has blinded me and left me to wallow in my own ignorance. How silly of me to think that God meant 1 littearl day when He said that. Such a fool am I

 

[JohnMarsten]

Oh Yes it does, you're the one not telling the truth. Styder, you're a Seventh day Adventist.
Dude, please say something true to get back on track.

First of all, you have your reasons to quote me out of context. I clarified to you over and over that I agree with the scriptures account; that God created the world in 7days. I disagreed that is was 7/24hr days.
In my responses, I used God's qoutes to show when the 2 light was made to give us 24hr days.
The cold hard fact is, God's days are not 24hr days.
If God lived on earth in creation you might have an argument.
The cold hard fact is this..2Pe 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
You're a professional, I'm sure you can argue your way out of calling God a liar for not limiting his days to 24hrs.

When I asked you in that other thread; why did Adam not surely die in the 24hrs day that he ate the fruit? You responded with commentary about the plan of redemption kicking in and Adam being denied immortallity.


The fact is God said "in the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die." The fact is, in that 24hr day God restricted his access to the tree of life. And Adam died within 1000yrs. God cannot lie.

You imported this dead argument into this thread Stryder, I asked you to start a fresh thread. As ususal you have no scriptures to settle issues just arguments insults and commentary.

yep, I thought about that too, the one with Adam dying within 1000 years, which in effect could be within the said daycycle of 1000 years.

WHen I was an active adventist I would have disagree right away, but now I am more open minded.

Would anyone claim its a salvational matter to keep saying that one day is strictly 24 hours?

I mean, always? Ever been?

I mean that 24 hours thing can only work on earth, right?

A day on other planets can be either shorter or longer, depending on the distance between the planet and its sun. Now, the problem is, does God live on a planet? Is heaven to be found on a planet? Now, this is something I do not know. Because if it was on a planet we dont really know how long a day would be there.

Imagine, the place called Heaven could on a planet that is so far away from the sun, that a day takes literal 1000 terestrian years.

I dont know that, and as a human being I am not only limited in mental capabilities and understanding, but can only understand what God wants me to believe and understand. It doesnt really matter to me how long it did take for God to create the earth, I wasnt there, and if the bible says that 1000 years is a day, or at least one option of understanding, then a 6000 years creation becomes at least possible. 6 days or 6000 years, does it add anything to my faith/salvation?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The day being a thousand years is the same as a day being 24 hours... both are based on our reckoning of time. So either they are both correct or both flawed.

I believe that the history of this earth is being played out on the macro scale of a day being 1000 years. We are right around the end of the six thousand years since creation and we know that the earth will 'rest' 1000 years after Chrisrts return. The cycle of 7...

There is also the day equals a year equation to give us prophetic reckoning over the span of centuries. All are based on our understanding of time so why would God insert a different standard of time into the creation story... doesn't add up.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The fact is God said "in the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die." The fact is, in that 24hr day God restricted his access to the tree of life. And Adam died within 1000yrs. God cannot lie.

There is no discrepency in the statement that God said in the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die. Adam and Eve spiritually died that day. There are Biblical evidences of different deaths... there is the first death and the second death. Adam, being made perfect, without sin, has the original death decree upon him, reducing him to mortal status, then mortal death and finally, the possibility of the final or third death.

 

[Cribstyl]

There is no discrepency in the statement that God said in the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die. Adam and Eve spiritually died that day.
There are Biblical evidences of different deaths... there is the first death and the second death. Adam, being made perfect, without sin, has the original death decree upon him, reducing him to mortal status, then mortal death and finally, the possibility of the final or third death.

Slow your roll and be accountable ECR. Please dont leave us hanging without scriptures.
Please provide biblical evidence to show that Adam and Eve died spiritually? We'll be waiting to read your evidence.

The bible only say and proves that Adam sinned and died in the flesh, and because of Adam's sin, he passed on death of the flesh to all men that would sin.

Gen 3:19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

Rom 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Saying that Adam died a Spiritual death is a false teaching. (let's see 1 scripture ECR?)

God did not pronounce spiritual death on Adam.

 

[ricker]

yep, I thought about that too, the one with Adam dying within 1000 years, which in effect could be within the said daycycle of 1000 years.

WHen I was an active adventist I would have disagree right away, but now I am more open minded.

Would anyone claim its a salvational matter to keep saying that one day is strictly 24 hours?

I mean, always? Ever been?

I mean that 24 hours thing can only work on earth, right?

A day on other planets can be either shorter or longer, depending on the distance between the planet and its sun. Now, the problem is, does God live on a planet? Is heaven to be found on a planet? Now, this is something I do not know. Because if it was on a planet we dont really know how long a day would be there.

Imagine, the place called Heaven could on a planet that is so far away from the sun, that a day takes literal 1000 terestrian years.

I dont know that, and as a human being I am not only limited in mental capabilities and understanding, but can only understand what God wants me to believe and understand. It doesnt really matter to me how long it did take for God to create the earth, I wasnt there, and if the bible says that 1000 years is a day, or at least one option of understanding, then a 6000 years creation becomes at least possible. 6 days or 6000 years, does it add anything to my faith/salvation?

Adventists have more invested in a literal 6 day creation than most, for obvious reasons. That said, they are not the only people adamant about it.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement that I underlined. I believe completely that God created our earth. The exact circumstances are not really covered scientifically in the Bible, and are not relevant to my faith. We have to take into consideration what archaeologists and geologists have discovered.

 

[Stryder06]

Adventists have more invested in a literal 6 day creation than most, for obvious reasons. That said, they are not the only people adamant about it.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement that I underlined. I believe completely that God created our earth. The exact circumstances are not really covered scientifically in the Bible, and are not relevant to my faith. We have to take into consideration what archaeologists and geologists have discovered.

The way I see it, it's less about trying to defend the literal account so that we have some ground to stand on in regards to the sabbath, but its about defending the plain word of God.

IF God didn't create the world in 6 literal days, then we have a huge problem. Also, where do we stop? Was man not actually created in His image since we have the scientific community claiming we are the byproduct of evolution?

 

[JohnMarsten]

The way I see it, it's less about trying to defend the literal account so that we have some ground to stand on in regards to the sabbath, but its about defending the plain word of God.

IF God didn't create the world in 6 literal days, then we have a huge problem. Also, where do we stop? Was man not actually created in His image since we have the scientific community claiming we are the byproduct of evolution?

Would that really be a problem?

Let me ask you a question. Since it was claimed in this thread that moon and sun didnt exist in the beginning of creation, did God use 24 human earth hours for the first two days of creation? Can we be sure about that?

Why is it all a problem?

Do we need to have all the answers for everything? and if we dont have them to we have to make something up like people do with EGW?

 

[Stryder06]

Would that really be a problem?

Yes

Let me ask you a question. Since it was claimed in this thread that moon and sun didnt exist in the beginning of creation, did God use 24 human earth hours for the first two days of creation? Can we be sure about that?

The 24hr period is determined by the amount of time it takes the earth to rotate on it's axis. One full rotation, for us, is a 24hr period. Don't forget, the bible says the spirit of the Lord moved upon the face of the waters. There was a mass of some sort already here, already on it's set path of rotation. God then gave that mass form. He created light the first day, and thus began the weekly cycle which He instituted.

Why is it all a problem?

Do we need to have all the answers for everything? and if we dont have them to we have to make something up like people do with EGW?

You seem to be very eager to get an exact answer for every question you ask here. Should you not receive an answer for any question that you present, in the way you think you should, you are quick to justify your position on having left the church. Having answers to issues that the scriptures are silent on are answers we don't need. Having answers to issues that the scriptures make clear, we need to have.

 

[ricker]

The way I see it, it's less about trying to defend the literal account so that we have some ground to stand on in regards to the sabbath, but its about defending the plain word of God.

IF God didn't create the world in 6 literal days, then we have a huge problem. Also, where do we stop? Was man not actually created in His image since we have the scientific community claiming we are the byproduct of evolution?

I see where you are coming from. I don't necessarily subscribe to the old earth creation, or whatever they call it. I just personally don't get to riled up about the debatable details because I do believe God created the earth. I certainly don't believe everything the evolutionists say.

The Bible is not terribly specific as to the length of days, etc, there are in fact sort of two creation stories in Genesis. We can't discount everything that has been discovered on our planet. I just don't know for sure how God created the earth, just as I don't know the details of Noah's flood. My faith in the shed blood of Jesus and His resurrection is solid. That is the salvational issue.