Creflo $ Setting A Bad Example

[dkbwarrior]

I don't think $ is a heretic. I think he is greedy is all. He says some good things, sadly in this case he is doing the wrong thing.

He may be, or may not be. I can't judge that, and neither can you. I can only judge by the fruit of his ministry. And there is alot of fruit. I personally would pay for his lawyer in this case.

Peace...

 

[BenAdam]

He may be, or may not be. I can't judge that, and neither can you. I can only judge by the fruit of his ministry. And there is alot of fruit. I personally would pay for his lawyer in this case.

Peace...

Why can't you? Paul didn't hesitate to say people were sinning.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Why can't you? Paul didn't hesitate to say people were sinning.

Because I don't know him, nor do I know anything about his personal life and motives, other than what I hear in the media. All I know of his personal life is that some people got together in his church and bought him a Rolls Royce. I don't have a problem with that.

And God has not given me any Word of Knowledge concerning him.

His teachings are biblical and revelatory. And His ministry shows much fruit.

So, I would think, unless you know him personally, or know something that the rest of us don't know about him, or God has given you a Word of Knowledge regarding the situation; then you are judging your brother by making such an accusation in an open public forum.

God expects us to make judgement calls about where we give. There are alot of places that I don't give to because I have a check in my spirit, that is, I don't feel right about it for some reason, but I don't throw around public accusations against those persons. I just don't give to that ministry.

Peace...

 

[BenAdam]

Because I don't know him, nor do I know anything about his personal life and motives, other than what I hear in the media. All I know of his personal life is that some people got together in his church and bought him a Rolls Royce. I don't have a problem with that.

And God has not given me any Word of Knowledge concerning him.

His teachings are biblical and revelatory. And His ministry shows much fruit.

So, I would think, unless you know him personally, or know something that the rest of us don't know about him, or God has given you a Word of Knowledge regarding the situation; then you are judging your brother by making such an accusation in an open public forum.

God expects us to make judgement calls about where we give. There are alot of places that I don't give to because I have a check in my spirit, that is, I don't feel right about it for some reason, but I don't throw around public accusations against those persons. I just don't give to that ministry.

Peace...

Well personally I have a huge problem with him accepting the Rolls. Were it me, I would have rebuked them for something so wasteful, it nearly amounts to worship. I would rather them go feed someone, put some deserving kid to college, send Bibles to China instead of WASTING it on a pretentious symbol of prosperity.

 

[Christina M]

Well personally I have a huge problem with him accepting the Rolls. Were it me, I would have rebuked them for something so wasteful, it nearly amounts to worship. I would rather them go feed someone, put some deserving kid to college, send Bibles to China instead of WASTING it on a pretentious symbol of prosperity.

People could just as easily rebuke you, Ben! You should sell your computer, your car, your house, all but one set of clothing, etc... and give it all to the poor!

 

[BenAdam]

People could just as easily rebuke you, Ben! You should sell your computer, your car, your house, all but one set of clothing, etc... and give it all to the poor!

If they had given him a Corolla I wouldn't say anything. I have dependents and live modestly. A Rolls is disgustingly excessive.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Well personally I have a huge problem with him accepting the Rolls. Were it me, I would have rebuked them for something so wasteful, it nearly amounts to worship. I would rather them go feed someone, put some deserving kid to college, send Bibles to China instead of WASTING it on a pretentious symbol of prosperity.

This argument has been used before.

3And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
4And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
5For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
6And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me. 7For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
-Mark 14:3-7

Three hundred pence was about a years wages for a labourer. Close to the cost of a Rolls, in todays terms, and it only made his feet smell good for a few hours at most. At least the Rolls is still being used to get him to church to preach.

I don't think Jesus looked at money the same way you apparently do. I hear murmuring coming from you.

Peace...

 

[Christina M]

If they had given him a Corolla I wouldn't say anything. I have dependents and live modestly. A Rolls is disgustingly excessive.

But who is to say what is extravagant for whom?

Your Corolla is pure extravagance to many.

While your "living modesty" sounds humble, wouldn't it be better to at least TRY to be blessed beyond what you need so you have MORE than enough so you can bless others? 2 Cor 9:8

Creflo's ministry blesses many tens of thousands with food, clothing, wells, medical supplies, the list goes on.

Perhaps when you are blessing as many as he is you can then sit in judgment.

 

[RevKidd]

I kind of see both sides of the coin. I can understand $ asking that any investigatioin being done according to the law... That's fine.

But I also can see the government looking at these people who are tax exempt and living lavish lifestyles.

But I am also one who doesn't like big government either. Around here they passed a no-smoking ban for pretty much all of Ohio. That means, if I am a buisness owner, like a cafe, restaurant or even a bar, my customers are not allowed to smoke inside. Now let me say, I don't condone smoking. I hate it with a heated passion. Just a horrible dirty habit. However, I also understand the buisness owners persepective who say that the majority of their clientel are smokers who like to come in, eat few wings, drink a beer and have a smoke. To me, for the government to take that right away from the private buisness owner is really stepping over the line IMO. Slowly but surely all our rights are being taken away and it starts with the government taking the rights away from those that like to inhale cancer laden smoke. The other side of me likes the law because now all restaurants are smoke free so I don't have to worry about sitting to close to the smoking section.

 

[lyonguard]

Well personally I have a huge problem with him accepting the Rolls. Were it me, I would have rebuked them for something so wasteful, it nearly amounts to worship. I would rather them go feed someone, put some deserving kid to college, send Bibles to China instead of WASTING it on a pretentious symbol of prosperity.

The same could be said when someone pays for your dinner. Would you rebuke them? Or will you rebuke people that give you gifts at Christmas? Don't rebuke someone for sowing seed. You are refusing a blessing that they could recieve from God for sowing that seed. If you do not want the gift, turn around and sow it into another ministry.

 

[dkbwarrior]

We bought my last pastor a car. But it was a small church, and we only raised enough to get him a Honda. But if we coulda got him a Rolls, you better believe I woulda.

Peace...

 

[BenAdam]

This argument has been used before.

3And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
4And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
5For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
6And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me. 7For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
-Mark 14:3-7

Three hundred pence was about a years wages for a labourer. Close to the cost of a Rolls, in todays terms, and it only made his feet smell good for a few hours at most. At least the Rolls is still being used to get him to church to preach.

I don't think Jesus looked at money the same way you apparently do. I hear murmuring coming from you.

Peace...

$ isn't Jesus, what she did was an act of worship. A Yugo would get him to church.

 

[dkbwarrior]

The same could be said when someone pays for your dinner. Would you rebuke them? Or will you rebuke people that give you gifts at Christmas? Don't rebuke someone for sowing seed. You are refusing a blessing that they could recieve from God for sowing that seed. If you do not want the gift, turn around and sow it into another ministry.

That is what Kenneth Copeland has done. They have given away 14 airplanes to other ministries, before finally buying the one they have now, that this same senator wants to know all about...

Just think of all the gospel being preached and food and clothing items able to be delivered by these ministries due to these fourteen planes!

Peace...

 

[BenAdam]

The same could be said when someone pays for your dinner. Would you rebuke them? Or will you rebuke people that give you gifts at Christmas? Don't rebuke someone for sowing seed. You are refusing a blessing that they could recieve from God for sowing that seed. If you do not want the gift, turn around and sow it into another ministry.

It would honestly depend, at McDonld's, that is cool, at a $1000 dinner, not on your life.

 

[dkbwarrior]

$ isn't Jesus, what she did was an act of worship. A Yugo would get him to church.

So would a bicycle, or public transportation. Do you own a car BenAdam, or do you take the bus?

Peace...

 

[lyonguard]

It would honestly depend, at McDonld's, that is cool, at a $1000 dinner, not on your life.

I don't see the difference. A gift is a gift. And what if God told them to buy you $1,000 dinner? Do you want to be responsible for them disobeying God? Or do you want to stand in God's way?

 

[jeolmstead]

If he really believes in the prosperity message, then, he would be violating his own doctrinal position if he didn’t take the Rolls.

I don’t know him or his heart. How could I? I’m in no position to judge him.

I have not sent him any money. (Don’t plan to) My advice to anyone would be to funnel their giving through their local church first and local charities second.

If there is a problem with either of those you’ll be close enough to see it.



John O.

 

[BenAdam]

I don't see the difference. A gift is a gift. And what if God told them to buy you $1,000 dinner? Do you want to be responsible for them disobeying God? Or do you want to stand in God's way?

A gift is not a gift, there are responsible gifts and irresponsible ones. There is a huge difference betweening buying someone something like a $1000 dinner and paying off someone's debt of $1000. The latter is more likely to be a responsible gift.

 

[HephzibahBenJudah]

Well ministries should be accountable (to God) and above reproach or scrutiny from outsiders. However, what would your pastor think if someone from the outside waltzed in and demanded to know what your church does with their money.
There is a fine line here. Sometimes the world just don't like seeing Gods' people have anything good. And there are those who would love to get their preverbial hands in the cookie jar...to build more crack houses I'm sure.

 

[BenAdam]

Well ministries should be accountable (to God) and above reproach or scrutiny from outsiders. However, what would your pastor think if someone from the outside waltzed in and demanded to know what your church does with their money.
There is a fine line here. Sometimes the world just don't like seeing Gods' people have anything good. And there are those who would love to get their preverbial hands in the cookie jar...to build more crack houses I'm sure.

Someone from outside didn't just waltz in. A represenative of the Government that granted this institution a tax exempt status wants to ensure that the laws governing tax exempt entities are doing what they are supposed to be. (I know that is a little idealistic, but ideally that is what is happening here) If you want the government's stamp of approval, you have to play by their rules, regardless of how screwed up they are.