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Creationists, what do the worlds universities know that creationists don't?

Inan3

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How is creationism "utterly false"? It is not my opinion that creationism has had it's claims completely rebutted. Just because there have been some legal cases won does not mean anything was proved. Court cases are won on technicalities more than evidence. I don't know where you are getting your info but it's wrong.



Perhaps you should read my post again to see what I was really saying.


Thank you, very interesting.
 
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mzungu

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So only scientific text books have 'accuracy of content' do they?
One can hardly use the Bible to judge the accuracy of a science textbook. Perhaps you can define as to what is the accuracy of the Bible referring to? If it is referring to something spiritual then no one can challenge that but if the Bible is used to challenge the accuracy of any scientific textbook then I am afraid that you have no idea as to how science works!

Have a nice day
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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There are many, many claims of creationism that have been utterly refuted. I'm not just talking about the Dover trial, if that's what you're referring to with the "court cases" stuff. That's the tip of the iceberg. Everything creationists have claimed, be they ideas pet theories like irreducible complexity or what they see as fatal flaws in evolution, has been completely demolished by people who know what they're talking about.

Look no further than the site I already linked you:
An Index to Creationist Claims

Thank you, very interesting.

But apparently unconvincing.
 
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theFijian

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I'm sure putting my reply into context will help...

I wasn't claiming the bible was ought to be used to challenge the accuracy of any scientific textbook, I was wondering why not using the Bible as a science textbook would automatically mean it has issues with 'accuracy of content'. I'm not a scientist by trade just a layman, though visiting forums like this has helped my understanding of how science works no end.

Have a nice day

And yourself
 
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mzungu

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Using the Bible as a science textbook automatically means that there will be major issues, the least of which will be accuracy. Genesis alone has been totally refuted by science. You cannot use a spiritual guide as a science textbook. Science is not faith based nor spiritual. Science is based on the falsifiable whereas any religion is based on the unfalsifiable.

Science uses evidences and theories to explain those evidences. The Bible by any account contains nothing of scientific value.

Science has very strict rules that it has to abide by in order to function properly and faith is not one of them.

 
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Hespera

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So only scientific text books have 'accuracy of content' do they?

The texts that i have seen used in high school are pretty bad.

Full of mistakes, and always out of date.

Thing is, its an industry, big business, who gets to sell the books. Very competitive... there is a story about how the Calif board adopted a new biology text one year. They were supposed to read and review all the submissions, then meet again and vote. All but one voted for a certain book. He ws the only one who had read it, or tried to.

he voted against it as all the pages were blank. he was the only one who noticed.

Only a cynic would suggest that any bribery was involved in text selection.


What indeed does one do with a book whose accuracy is problematic.
 
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Hespera

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would automatically mean it has issues with 'accuracy of content
'.

hmm, if you had said that instead of going off on something about science texts i could hve respopnded more on topic.

It in no way a case of "automatically". just saying that the bible very clearly has accuracy problems in some areas.

That does bring some degree of question about the accuracy of the rest of it, in my mind; that only seems reasonable. And if you cannot trust the accuracy of it, then, what use is it? (not meaning it has no use, but, it asks the question about what exactly the use is)
 
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Hespera

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It is not my opinion that creationism has had it's claims completely rebutted.

Honestly, as much as the different schools of creoism are
at odds with eachother, at the very least the claims of all but one of them are refuted by the others!
 
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Cabal

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Except in the court cases for both YEC and it's cousin ID, the science was presented from the evolution side, and the creationists umm'd, ahh'd and floundered. It was the perfect chance for the alternative hypotheses to present their evidence and they failed.

I don't know where you are getting your info but it's wrong.

The fact you made the claim in the quote above about technicalities rather than evidence shows you aren't even aware of what happened in these court cases. Perhaps you should actually, you know, READ about what happened in the trial instead of declaring it wrong because it's inconvenient for you.
 
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theFijian

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Using the Bible as a science textbook automatically means that there will be major issues, the least of which will be accuracy. Genesis alone has been totally refuted by science. You cannot use a spiritual guide as a science textbook.
umm can you point out where I said anything to the contrary? I've not been advocating the use of the bible as a science textbook, nor was I advocating using the Bible to critique any scientific literature. Are you getting me mixed up with another poster?
Science is not faith based nor spiritual. Science is based on the falsifiable whereas any religion is based on the unfalsifiable.
What are the philosophical assumptions underpinning the scientific method? Are they fasifiable?
Science uses evidences and theories to explain those evidences. The Bible by any account contains nothing of scientific value.
Well since the Bible is not trying to convey scientific information....
Science has very strict rules that it has to abide by in order to function properly and faith is not one of them.
Don't remember saying it was
 
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theFijian

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The texts that i have seen used in high school are pretty bad.

Full of mistakes, and always out of date.


If we cannot trust the accuracy of science textbooks then what use are they? maybe we try to discern where they are correct and where they aren't. Or maybe we try to make sure they're actually saying what we think they're saying. Likewise, maybe the Bible doesn't say what we think it says.
 
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mzungu

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Well what did you mean by this?:
I was wondering why not using the Bible as a science textbook would automatically mean it has issues with 'accuracy of content'.
 
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knowledgeIsPower

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"out of date" means there is new info out there that we can look at. So go and get the new version of the textbook to get access to the corrections. There is no need to "discern where they are correct and where they aren't" if you're prepared to put in the effort and funds to get a new version.

This is not so with the bible. There is no bible2.0 with corrections. So in that case you have no choice but to try to discern for yourself what is correct and what isn't. Which is needless to say a really stupid way of doing things.
 
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Hespera

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If we cannot trust the accuracy of science textbooks then what use are they? Or maybe we try to make sure they're actually saying what we think they're saying. Likewise, maybe the Bible doesn't say what we think it says.


Im referring to the texts used in public middle schools and high schools, whether they are history or science, they are nor very good.

They are of great use in the industry, less useful for imparting good information.

maybe we try to discern where they are correct and where they aren't.

that would be quite useful, and printing better editions would be a real good goal.


Or maybe we try to make sure they're actually saying what we think they're saying. Likewise, maybe the Bible doesn't say what we think it says

Public school texts dont seem to present a translation problem for people who can read, i am unaware that it is a situation that needs much attention.

The bible..the translation, the archaic language, the cryptic statements, etc all present tremendous problems figuring what it says...hence the 37,000 sects, and the endless debate over what it all means.

Id agree that its not likely that much of it actually means what anyone today thinks it means.
 
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mzungu

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You hit it on the nail head. Imagine if I were to go back in time to 1965 and asked someone to translate a document referring to the IRANGATE scandal! Well by the title alone he would think that it had to do with some gate in Iran that caused some scandal or that a scandal took place on or near some gate in Iran. But if I were to travel back to 1978 then he would know that it was a political scandal!

We do not know the nuances of the ancient Hebrew nor the Greek to know what exactly they meant. Although some are easy to understand: "It is easier for a camel to go through........." but other parts cannot be taken at face value.
 
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Inan3

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And yet, for both the Bible and Irangate we have information available to us to help us discern what is what. One only needs to seek and they will find. Especially the Bible because it has it's own information. Scripture interprets scripture. And then there's the eternal God. He's His own vast source of information and He makes it readily available to those who seek Him.
 
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Hespera

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yep seek and ye shall find 37,000 sects worth of difference about what the thing means.

but of course only the true christians get it right. you will know who they are because they will tell you they -thro' luck, inspiration, study, or such divers means as there may be-got it right.

not like the others. the others do it wrong. how could they think a bit of a sprinklin' would baptize when ever so clear its gotta be full immersion?

but all of them got it right. so they say.
 
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