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Creationists: What are the reasons general acceptance of deep time and evolution

Why do you keep repeating this if it is not what the poll says? No questions about the age of the earth were asked.

Gallup specifically asked if "human beings developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life" which pretty well sums up the idea of evolution, whether it involves human beings or not. Certainly no Young Earth Creationist would claim humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life.

You seem to be quibbling over the fact that the question involved human development rather than the Earth in general, but it nevertheless relates to a key distinction between YECs and Evolutionists, whether millions of years and a common ancestor are involved, or whether humans have essentially remained human and only 10,000 years are involved in human development.

42-46% of Americans are clearly saying they believe humans have remained essentially the same and were created in the past 10,000 years. I.e., a large percentage of Americans are YECs.
 
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CabVet

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Gallup specifically asked if "human beings developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life" which pretty well sums up the idea of evolution, whether it involves human beings or not. Certainly no Young Earth Creationist would claim humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life.

You seem to be quibbling over the fact that the question involved human development rather than the Earth in general, but it nevertheless relates to a key distinction between YECs and Evolutionists, whether millions of years and a common ancestor are involved, or whether humans have essentially remained human and only 10,000 years are involved in human development.

42-46% of Americans are clearly saying they believe humans have remained essentially the same and were created in the past 10,000 years. I.e., a large percentage of Americans are YECs.

No questions about the age of the earth were asked, what part of this do you not understand? As pointed out by others, there are many Christians out there that think that humans are a special creation that came about less than 10,000 years ago but also that the earth is old. Saying that those who answered "yes" to the question of whether "humans were created in present form 10,000 years ago" is the same as admitting to being a YEC is simply a misrepresentation.

In addition, it is never above 50% the population as you claim it to be.
 
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No questions about the age of the earth were asked, what part of this do you not understand? As pointed out by others, there are many Christians out there that think that humans are a special creation that came about less than 10,000 years ago but also that the earth is old. Saying that those who answered "yes" to the question of whether "humans were created in present form 10,000 years ago" is the same as admitting to being a YEC is simply a misrepresentation.

In addition, it is never above 50% the population as you claim it to be.

"there are many Christians out there that think that humans are a special creation that came about less than 10,000 years ago but also that the earth is old"

Ah, maybe you do have a point then. I hadn't realized that was a prevalent view. I suppose you could be correct that that view wasn't very well distinguished by the Gallup poll.
 
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RickG

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"there are many Christians out there that think that humans are a special creation that came about less than 10,000 years ago but also that the earth is old"

Yes, many Christians believe in a special creation of humans, but not a young earth. You are adding that 10,000 year idea. The poll made no such indication.
 
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Yes, many Christians believe in a special creation of humans, but not a young earth. You are adding that 10,000 year idea. The poll made no such indication.

No, the poll definitely asked if people believed humans were created by God in the last 10,000 years. The question is whether that necessarily indicates a Young Earth Creationist.
 
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RickG

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No, the poll definitely asked if people believed humans were created by God in the last 10,000 years. The question is whether that necessarily indicates a Young Earth Creationist.

The poll was specific to human development, not the age of the earth.
 
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The poll was specific to human development, not the age of the earth.

I never said it involved the age of the earth. I said it involved young earth creationism, which it did. Young earth creationism also addresses the age of humanity per Genesis 1, that God created mankind recently.
 
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RickG

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I never said it involved the age of the earth. I said it involved young earth creationism, which it did. Young earth creationism also addresses the age of humanity per Genesis 1, that God created mankind recently.

YEC

Y = Young
E = Earth
C = Creationism

YEC is Young Earth. There are Christians that believe in special human creation but have no problem with evolution. The poll was specific to human origin and development. YEC goes beyond that.
 
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Let's see if hyperlinks are finally working:

Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design | Gallup Historical Trends

According to Gallup's 2007 poll, 39% said "Creationism, that is, the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" is definitely true, and 27% said it is probably true.

So the argument then is that one could believe in Gap Theory and a older Earth while still supporting this? Would you say that is young life on earth creationism instead then? How would you name that belief then if not young earth creationism?
 
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CabVet

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Let's see if hyperlinks are finally working:

Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design | Gallup Historical Trends

According to Gallup's 2007 poll, 39% said "Creationism, that is, the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" is definitely true, and 27% said it is probably true.

So the argument then is that one could believe in Gap Theory and a older Earth while still supporting this? Would you say that is young life on earth creationism instead then? How would you name that belief then if not young earth creationism?

No, I would say that this poll cannot be used to draw any conclusions about the support for young earth creationism since no questions about it were made.
 
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createdtoworship

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This is a question for creationists, primarily young earth creationists.

What, in your opinion, is the reason that the scientific community - and the public more generally - accepts evolution as the prevailing model for biology and also deep time as the prevailing concepts for geology and cosmology?

Note that I'm not asking you to explain why you are a creationist or what you believe, or to defend your position.

What I'm interested in is what reasons you think that evolutionary biology is the generally accepted explanation for the diversity of life and that there is scientific concordance about the ages of the earth and the universe.

It is a scientific conspiracy? The influence of satan or other supernatural forces? Is it man deliberately misleading himself?

What is your explanation?

for lack of a refutation I will give a post i have used before:

Motives for Evolution, Moral, financial:

The reason why there are more Darwinian evolutionists is possibly due to fears of losing ones Job, or demoted/ refused to advance if you don’t comply or Fear of reprisal by evolutionary bosses.

As evidence of this claim I give two quotes:


Behe and geisler readily admit that one reason why the "more education...(the) less likely you are to reject" darwinism is


Michael Behe in the Harvard Political Review, “There’s good reason to be afraid. Even if you’re not fired from your job, you will easily be passed over for promotions. I would strongly advise graduate students who are skeptical of Darwinian theory not to make their views known.”-Harvard Political Review- 5/12/02


also: geisler admits this too:- by admitting God, or anything other than evolution:

“Darwinists would risk losing financial security and professional admiration. How so? Because there’s tremendous pressure in the academic community to publish something that supports evolution. Find something important, and you may find yourself on the cover of National Geographic or the subject of a PBS special. Find nothing, and you may find yourself out of a job, out of grant money, or at least out of favor with your materialist colleagues. So there’s a money, job security, and prestige motive to advance the Darwinian worldview.”

evolution is where the grant monies lie. There is risk in any new venture in science, nonconformity is simply not profitable (most of the time).



Secondly, the moral motive for evolution:

the younger the minds that explore evolution the more impressionable they are:

“Most students become acquainted with many of the current concepts in biology whilst still at school and at an age when most people are, on the whole, uncritical. Then when they come to study the subject in more detail they have in their minds several half-truths and misconceptions which tend to prevent them from coming to a fresh appraisal of the situation.”-Creation and the Courts, Norman Geisler- 2007


thirdly- More motives for evolution (morally speaking)
Richard Dawkins was justified in his remark that "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist " in that sense, Darwin's "scientific' theory forms a necessary support for the beliefs of the committed materialist.-Tekton Apologetics

… In fact, the late Julian Huxley, once a leader among Darwinists, admitted that sexual freedom is a popular motivation behind evolutionary dogma. When he was asked by talk show host Merv Griffin, “Why do people believe in evolution?” Huxley honestly answered, “The reason we accepted Darwinism even without proof, is because we didn’t want God to interfere with our sexual mores.”36

Former atheist Lee Strobel reveals that he had the same motivation when he believed in Darwinism. He writes, “I was more than happy to latch onto Darwinism as an excuse to jettison the idea of God so I could unabashedly pursue my own agenda in life without moral constraints.”37
Author and lecturer Ron Carlson has had Darwinists admit the same to him. On one such occasion, after lecturing at a major university on the problems with Darwinism and the evidence for Intelligent Design, Carlson had dinner with a biology professor who had attended his presentation.
“So what did you think of my lecture?” Carlson asked.
“Well, Ron,” began the professor, “what you say is true and makes a lot of sense. But I’m gonna continue to teach Darwinism anyway.”
Carlson was baffled. “Why would you do that?” he asked.
“Well, to be honest with you, Ron, it’s because Darwinism is morally comfortable.”
“Morally comfortable? What do you mean?” Carlson pressed.
“I mean if Darwinism is true—if there is no God and we all evolved from slimy green algae—then I can sleep with whomever I want,” observed the professor. “In Darwinism, there’s no moral accountability.”38
Now that’s a moment of complete candor. Of course, this is not to say that all Darwinists think this way or that all Darwinists are immoral—some undoubtedly live morally better lives than many so called Christians. It simply reveals that some Darwinists are motivated not by the evidence but rather by a desire to remain free from the perceived moral restraints of God.



36. Quoted in D. James Kennedy, Skeptics Answered (Sisters, Ore.: Multnomah, 1997), 154.
37. Strobel, Case for Faith, 91.
38. From the audiotape “Reaching Evolutionists,” at Southern Evangelical Seminary’s 2001 Apologetics Conference. Tape AC0108. Posted online at Impact Apologetics - Destroying Arguments and Taking Every Thought Captive to Christ!.




Princeton professor and Darwinist Peter Singer has used Darwinism to assert that “the life of a newborn is of less value than the life of a pig, a dog, or a chimpanzee.”21 Yes, you read that correctly.
What are the consequences of Singer’s outrageous Darwinian ideas? He believes that parents should be able to kill their newborn infants until they are 28 days of age! These beliefs are perfectly consistent with Darwinism. If we all came from slime, then we have no grounds to say that humans are morally any better than any other species. The only question is, why limit infanticide at 28 days, or, for that matter, 28 months or 28 years? If there is no Moral Law Giver, then there’s nothing wrong with murder at any age! Of course, Darwinists such as Singer might reject this conclusion, but they have no objective grounds for disagreeing unless they can appeal to a standard beyond themselves—a Moral Law Giver.
Two other Darwinists recently wrote a book asserting that rape is a natural consequence of evolution.23 According to authors Randy Thornhill and Craig Palmer, rape is “a natural, biological phenomenon that is a product of the human evolutionary heritage,” just like “the leopard’s spots and the giraffe’s elongated neck.”24

Sources:
23. Randy Thornhill and Craig Palmer, A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion (Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 2001).
24. Quoted in Nancy Pearcey, “Darwin’s Dirty Secret,” World magazine, March 25, 2000.



I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist -Copyright © 2004 Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek


According to the atheistic community, abortion is viewed as moral. In his debate with John Rankin, Dan Barker said that abortion is a “blessing” (Barker and Rankin, 2006; see also Barker, 1992, pp. 135, 213).

From: Apologetics Press - Is God Immoral for Killing Innocent Children?

Evolutionists have no moral standard according to Darwin:

Charles Darwin understood this truth perfectly. He wrote: “A man who has no assured and ever present belief in the existence of a personal God or of a future existence with retribution and reward, can have for his rule of life, as far as I can see, only to follow those impulses and instincts which are the strongest or which seem to him the best ones” (1958, p. 94, emp. added).

From: Apologetics Press - Is God Immoral for Killing Innocent Children?
 
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RickG

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Well i think there reason for acceptance is that evolution is semi-truth while it has great flaws in it that most tend to ignore (I will post a thread about what i mean when i reach 50 posts)

The only flaws are in the details. Explain the fossil record throughout the geologic column without evolution. If evolution were false, we would see fossils of all fauna and flora throughout the geologic column. We don't see that do we.
 
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Astrophile

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In short: Evolution is not a continuous change. That is fatal to this idea.

Are you saying, to be specific, that there was not a continuous lineage, with each individual hatching out of an egg laid by its mother, from, for example, a Jurassic feathered dinosaur to the pigeons that visit my garden?
 
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createdtoworship

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The only flaws are in the details. Explain the fossil record throughout the geologic column without evolution. If evolution were false, we would see fossils of all fauna and flora throughout the geologic column. We don't see that do we.

if evolution were true, we not see one transition for macro evolution, we would in fact see 100 of thousands, if not millions. Today we see none.
 
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createdtoworship

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Pigeon, meet chessboard.

Do you have any intention of defending any of the nonsense you just posted?

you only defend something, when it is attacked. you have no intention of attacking with rationality, you simply want to use fallacy. As I have proven today on other threads.
 
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RickG

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if evolution were true, we not see one transition for macro evolution, we would in fact see 100 of thousands, if not millions. Today we see none.

I'll let Loudmouth or Cabvet provide a list of transitional fossils as that is more their area than mine. However, transitional fossils in the geologic record are not necessary to demonstrate evolution. What you have to explain is why we do not find fossils of all fauna and flora in all formations of the geologic column. Because if evolution has not occurred then you are saying all life begin at the same time and therefore will found throughout the geologic column.
 
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createdtoworship

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I'll let Loudmouth or Cabvet provide a list of transitional fossils as that is more their area than mine. However, transitional fossils in the geologic record are not necessary to demonstrate evolution. What you have to explain is why we do not find fossils of all fauna and flora in all formations of the geologic column. Because if evolution has not occurred then you are saying all life begin at the same time and therefore will found throughout the geologic column.

I didnt say they demonstrate evolution I said macro evolution. however if you can prove ancestry between two genus level animals then you can prove it however you wish. as this is the definition of macroevolution according to most non generic (not wikipedia) sites. now it can be one or a million transitions in between as long as you prove ancestry to both.
 
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Loudmouth

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you only defend something, when it is attacked.

If it is attacked, can you defend it? Or will you only cut and paste from other websites you don't understand?

you have no intention of attacking with rationality, you simply want to use fallacy. As I have proven today on other threads.

So you will actually respond with your own words, and address the words I write?
 
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