Creationists: Explain how the designer created and/or modified living things on Earth

[Kenny'sID]

And how does speaking cause living things to appear? Explain the how.

Much faster than "nothing" does.

 

[BigRed009]

I have already spent my lifetime developing a personal philosophy that I am comfortable with. I don't expect anyone else to adopt my personal beliefs since they are based on my own personal journey and experiences. Likewise, I think it's presumptuous of others to assume I would adopt their beliefs based on their own experiences.

I wasn't necessarily expecting you to adopt my beliefs based my experiences. I was illustrating that its commonly these personal experiences (big or small) that develop our faith.

That's why I was suggesting to give prayer a shot.

The only other thing I can suggest is reading The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel, an athiest journalist who became Christian when he investigated Jesus' life, death, and resurrection in order to disprove God to his wife.

 

[VirOptimus]

I'm going to start turning your posts into a drinking game. Every non-sequitur reply, take a drink.

Noooooo, dont do it! You will die of alcohol poisining!

 

[BigRed009]

Just as an aside, I notice this is a common theme to many religious stories (e.g. people at a low point in their life, turn to spiritual/religious beliefs as a solution, etc). It also seems to be a common evangelical technique used by many evangelists.

Forgive me for being clinical, but I've always wondered what sort of psychological feedback mechanisms may be at work at reinforcing people's beliefs through these sorts of experiences. Especially when it comes to those that undergo religious conversions as a result.

Not at all. I was already a Christian when this happened. I had already been drawn to a new church that spoke to me in a way that made sense to me. And then more so when I bought my own Bible and started reading the New Testament.

During this period of anguish, I had no doubts about God. It was just painful and I felt like I wasn't getting any help.

When I asked my Bible study leader for help, I just told him I needed a miracle. I didn't want to talk about the details because I felt like they were too embarrassing. The core of the problem was my feeling of worthlessness. I didn't tell him or anyone up until this point of what I was going through.

And it was during this group prayer, with my friends with their hands laid on me, praying, that one of them spoke in tongues and she told me what the Lord was telling her. She said, (and I'm paraphrasing because this was like a year ago) "The Lord is telling me that the enemy is lying to you about your worth, and that He is lifting your head up. He is going to heal you and strengthen you."

After that experience I felt shaken up. Not bad, just kind of shaken up. When I got home minutes later I realized that I felt so much better. I felt like I did before any of the pain started, like a huge weight was lifted off of me.

There have been some times since then where I've felt a little depressed or upset with where I am in life, but nothing nowhere close to how bad it was before my experience.

I'm telling you this mainly to emphasize what was said to me, despite the fact that I hadn't told anyone about my depression or sense of worthlessness. Because of that, I think it's hard to explain this from a secular standpoint.

And no, I'm not expecting you to change your belief because of someone else's experience. I get that. This is my testimony and its right here for you to examine and make your own conclusions with.

 

[Sparagmos]

You're barking up the wrong tree. Creation, by definition is a miracle. Miracles, by definition, defy explanation. You can't demand a scientific explanation for a religious belief based on faith - religion and science are two very different games.

Are you saying that nothing on the molecular or chemical level happened when Adam was created?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Once again I see creationists claiming that "creation" is a valid explanation for life on Earth.

Therefore creationists should be able to explain the mechanisms, processes, forces, etc, involved in the creation and/or modification of living things on Earth via a designer.

Disclaimer: Not interested in Bible quotes. I know what the Bible says and it doesn't explain anything. If you want to invoke God "speaking" things into existence or shaping people out of clay, you need to explain the mechanism, processes, forces, etc behind such an act.

On this I would have to defer to Dr, Hugh Ross. He is an old Earth Creationist and an astrophysicist by trade.

He has a testable creation model that includes such things as.

1. Creation, by fiat miracle, of the entire physical universe (space-time dimensions, matter, energy, galaxies, stars, planets, etc.)
2. planet Earth singled out for a sequence of creation miracles. At its beginning, Earth is empty of life and unfit for life; interplanetary debris and Earth's primordial atmosphere prevent the light of the sun, moon, and stars from reaching the planet's surface
3. clearing of the interplanetary debris and partial transformation of the earth's atmosphere so that light from the heavenly bodies now penetrates to the surface of Earth's ocean
4. formation of water vapor in the troposphere under conditions that establish a stable water cycle
5. formation of continental land masses and ocean basins
6. production of plants on the continental land masses
7. transformation of the atmosphere from translucent to occasionally transparent. Sun, Moon, planets, and stars now can be seen from the vantage point of Earth's surface
8. production of swarms of small sea animals.
9. creation of sea mammals and birds
10. creation of three specialized kinds of land mammals: a) short-legged land mammals, b) long-legged land mammals that are easy to tame, and c) long-legged land mammals that are difficult to tame—all three specifically designed to cohabit with humans
11. creation of the human species

He believes in a "Singularity Beginning", aka The Big Bang. Marker 23:29 of the video, covers the conditions before life emerged. But if you really are interested in the topic you should watch the whole thing.

 

[Speedwell]

Dr. Ross is not a creationist within the context of this discussion. In fact, he has been denounced by the major creationist ministries such as Answers in Genesis and Creation Research International.

 

[Brightmoon]

"God didn't do it." is a belief as well. A belief that is no more valid than saying "Goddidit". I would also argue that there is a wealth of evidence that points to God. The problem is that "evidence" is entirely subjective on one's level of skepticism. So I will ask you a simple question. What would "evidence" for creation look like for you?

but that’s exactly the problem. There’s no DEFINITIVE evidence for God-did-it and scientists need that kind of verification to say that something is scientific. I’m a Christian and I would love it if scientists found this. They haven’t! And the only thing creationists seem to do is lie about what scientific research has already confirmed. Some of these creationist lies have been floating around for over a century.

 

[Halbhh]

Once again I see creationists claiming that "creation" is a valid explanation for life on Earth.

Therefore creationists should be able to explain the mechanisms, processes, forces, etc, involved in the creation and/or modification of living things on Earth via a designer.

Disclaimer: Not interested in Bible quotes. I know what the Bible says and it doesn't explain anything. If you want to invoke God "speaking" things into existence or shaping people out of clay, you need to explain the mechanism, processes, forces, etc behind such an act.

Well, since we ourselves can already modify genes....this hypothesis isn't any stretch.

But, notice that if we asked that 70 years ago, the idea of it being possible to directly alter genes in a useful and excellent way would seem more out-there. Any case, one would not expect the Creator to be limited to 1950s or 2020s era technology, right? And this is all just imagining under the regime of naturalism (where in the more ideological form, everything is suppose to work according to already-known science and technology; but in a more typical form, according to limits of reasonably projected technology). To be more complete, we'd note that a creator of this Universe would not, logically, be constrained by its physics. That's just the logic.

 

[AV1611VET]

but that’s exactly the problem. There’s no DEFINITIVE evidence for God-did-it and scientists need that kind of verification to say that something is scientific. I’m a Christian and I would love it if scientists found this. They haven’t! And the only thing creationists seem to do is lie about what scientific research has already confirmed. Some of these creationist lies have been floating around for over a century.

So when scientists say the universe is "expanding," when God said it was "stretched", God can take a hike ... right?

You do know the difference, don't you?

Expanding comes from forces inside pushing outward.

Stretching comes from forces outside pulling.

 

[Yttrium]

So when scientists say the universe is "expanding," when God said it was "stretched", God can take a hike ... right?

You do know the difference, don't you?

Expanding comes from forces inside pushing outward.

Stretching comes from forces outside pulling.

The term "expanding" doesn't imply a force. It just implies motion. Things being stretched apart are expanding.

 

[AV1611VET]

The term "expanding" doesn't imply a force. It just implies motion.

In the case of the Beelzebang,* motion from within, I take it?

* Big Bang event

 

[Yttrium]

In the case of the Beelzebang,* motion from within, I take it?

* Big Bang event

Well... actually... big bang theory doesn't really cover that. If you take a look here:

Expansion of the universe - Wikipedia

You'll see an awful lot of words with no clear idea of what caused the expansion, or what is causing the current estimated acceleration. Keep in mind the big bang isn't actually described as an explosion. It's described as a rapid reduction in density of the universe.

There is a lot of hypothesis and conjecture, but I don't see anything in the basic theory offhand that would rule out a supreme being doing some stretching to get things moving. I would, of course, appreciate anyone pointing out something I might have missed.

 

[eleos1954]

Once again I see creationists claiming that "creation" is a valid explanation for life on Earth.

Therefore creationists should be able to explain the mechanisms, processes, forces, etc, involved in the creation and/or modification of living things on Earth via a designer.

Disclaimer: Not interested in Bible quotes. I know what the Bible says and it doesn't explain anything. If you want to invoke God "speaking" things into existence or shaping people out of clay, you need to explain the mechanism, processes, forces, etc behind such an act.

Atheism is about belief or, specifically, what you don't believe. An atheist doesn't believe in any gods.

Agnosticism (as you describe yourself) is about knowledge or, specifically, about what you don't know. An agnostic doesn't know if any gods exist or not.

A Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God;

the atheist, that we can know there is not a god or gods.

The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial.

agnostic refers to someone who doesn’t know whether there is a god, or even if such a thing is knowable.

so, you argue/debate God, while at the same time admitting it's not knowable?

ok .. so we get it ... you don't know. ;o)

The Bible is not a science book, and was not intended to be.

Spiritual - relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

Spiritual - material - they are contrary to one another, so therefore are not
comparable and to do so is futile.

 

[pitabread]

The Bible is not a science book, and was not intended to be.

Which is why I'm not asking for Bible quotes.

 

[pitabread]

• production of swarms of small sea animals.

• creation of sea mammals and birds

• creation of three specialized kinds of land mammals: a) short-legged land mammals, b) long-legged land mammals that are easy to tame, and c) long-legged land mammals that are difficult to tame—all three specifically designed to cohabit with humans

• creation of the human species

How does Hugh Ross say these things are specifically created? What is the process involved?

 

[pitabread]

That's why I was suggesting to give prayer a shot.

The only other thing I can suggest is reading The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel, an athiest journalist who became Christian when he investigated Jesus' life, death, and resurrection in order to disprove God to his wife.

I didn't start this thread with the intention of asking about the validity of Christianity nor looking for prayers. The topic of the thread is clearly outlined in the OP. I'd like to stick to that if possible.

 

[Halbhh]

Since we can already modify genes....we'd have to recognize that God could of course, and more: we would expect He could do more/better than us.

(even under the assumptions of naturalism)

 

[pitabread]

Since we can already modify genes....we'd have to recognize that God could of course, and more: we would expect He could do more/better than us.

(even under the assumptions of naturalism)

The question is how though. Does God have a biology lab?

 

[Halbhh]

The question is how though. Does God have a biology lab?

You're asking for mere speculation? My personal speculation, which is just guessing, is that as the creator of this Universe's physics, God can do things we cannot even imagine very well. So I'd guess that He'd not need a lab or even a machine of any kind, as just guessing. Perhaps something far more amazing, as suggested in some of the more out-there quantum mechanics interpretations. But, see, I don't even presume naturalism actually, so...this naturalistic speculation is only one of several possibilities that come to mind.