Creationists: can you explain post-Flood repopulation?

[OldWiseGuy]

I somehow don't think God is going to let salt stop Him from carrying out His plans for the future.

AV, you gotta roll with me on this one. The compost thing is just too good.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, you gotta roll with me on this one. The compost thing is just too good.

I suppose!

 

[JacksBratt]

Using your loose definition, a lot of things are "incomprehensible". That doesn't make any of them true.
Maybe, God simply miracle'd all the animal and plant populations into place after the flood and included the variations within the different species' genome so that it looked like each species had a population bottleneck at a different time than any other species.

That would solve the population problem.

What population problem?. Several people here have shown that the population is not a problem. Either is the different races different human characteristics.


What is a problem is how life somehow started, somehow found a way to eat, somehow had a food source, somehow found a way to replicate, somehow then turned into plants, insects, reptiles, bacteria, viruses, birds, fish, crustaceans, fungi, mammals and humans. Somehow began to care, love, have sympathy, compassion, and emotional connections to other humans. And, somehow, world wide moral structure that is basically the same for all tribes, races and ethnic cultures.

 

[SteveB28]

I think Noah and the others planted gardens, not field crops. A small plot can be intensely managed to produce an abundance of food. Field crops such as you suggest were not needed right away and would wait until the soil was purged of salt.

As a longtime organic gardener I would be giddy at the prospect of using the huge amount of composted bedding and manure from the animals on the ark. I could have a rather large garden up and producing in no time.

And how long, exactly, would it take you to "purge" soil that has been inundated with salt water for a year? And please, no magic in your answer.

And what, exactly, would they have planted? I see all kinds of detail included in that mythical story, but not one word about seed collection, or the growing of seedlings prior to ' The Deluge'?

 

[AV1611VET]

And please, no magic in your answer.

Then you say:

I see all kinds of detail included in that mythical story,

What gives here?

 

[Queller]

You do need a calculator for this.

Three couples; Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and their wives each produce one child per year for 10 years. When the youngest reaches the marriageable age of 20, a full breeding cycle of 30 years begins. At end of the first 30 years the population is 30, a multiple of 5x the original number of people.

Year 1= 6 people.
Year 30....30 people, or 5x growth each 30 year cycle. This multiplier remains constant for each breeding cycle thereafter, so,

Year 60=150 people
Year 90=750
Year110=3750
Year140=18750
Year 170=93750
Year 200=468,750
Year 230=2,343,750
Year 260=11,187,750
Year 290=58,593,750
and so on.

These numbers are also cumulative as the preceding three generations would still be alive if 90 years was the average age of death. So in my calculations the actual population 290 years after the flood would be,

2,343,750
11,187,750
58,593,750
72,125,250


Problem solved.

You do realize that this growth rate leads to a population today (in ~year 4500 post-Flood) of:

21,019,476,964,872,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

right?

Since obviously we don't have that kind of population today, when did every couple stop having 10 kids and why?

(I'm ignoring the fact that your model does not in any way resemble actual population growth models)

 

[ThinkForYourself]

What population problem?. Several people here have shown that the population is not a problem.

No, they didn't.

According to these population theories, we should have a populations into the quadrillions or more today.

According the the US Census Bureau's historical estimates, human population roughly doubled every 1000 years between 5000 bc and 0 bc.

I'll trust their estimates over anyone else on this thread.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

You do realize that this growth rate leads to a population today (in ~year 4500 post-Flood) of:

21,019,476,964,872,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

right?
...

That explains the traffic on the way home from work.

 

[KWCrazy]

And how long, exactly, would it take you to "purge" soil that has been inundated with salt water for a year? And please, no magic in your answer.

Who said it was salt water? Salinity is developed by water evaporating and leaving sodium chloride and other chemicals behind, but prior to the flood there was no event which involved such a concentration of water or a run off of reivers to deposit salt into the ocean. In other words, without the erosion process how would the oceans build salinity in the first place and, conversely, how would an abundance of salt come about?

It's entirely possible that there was no salt until the continents ripped apart and the foundation of the deep broke open. This could well have instituted the very erosion process which increases salinity in the sea. No salt water pre-flood = no salt water contamination.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

What if you took a globe of seawater (we'll call it Terra Aqua), called a giant landmass out of it (we'll call it Pangaea), then spoke and that entire landmass was instantly covered in flora?

How incredibly difficult would that be, in your opinion?

Pretty darn easy!

My wife's Honeydo list has a bunch of landscaping on it, so if you ask him to please drop by my place ...

 

[KWCrazy]

According the the US Census Bureau's historical estimates, human population roughly doubled every 1000 years between 5000 bc and 0 bc.

Why would it need a thousand years to double? If you have four kids you double the population of the next generation. My stepson has five and he's only 22. I think he's got 978 years to spare.

So if there are 8 people on the ark it takes 1,000 years to get to 16? I don't think so.

 

[SteveB28]

As stated earlier, the 'problem' is not so much a matter of numbers - people can fabricate whatever time line they choose, coupled with a reproduction rate to match that timeline.

What they cannot fabricate (outside of the use of magic) is an explanation for the evidence provided by human genome research.

 

[SteveB28]

Who said it was salt water? Salinity is developed by water evaporating and leaving sodium chloride and other chemicals behind, but prior to the flood there was no event which involved such a concentration of water or a run off of reivers to deposit salt into the ocean. In other words, without the erosion process how would the oceans build salinity in the first place and, conversely, how would an abundance of salt come about?

It's entirely possible that there was no salt until the continents ripped apart and the foundation of the deep broke open. This could well have instituted the very erosion process which increases salinity in the sea. No salt water pre-flood = no salt water contamination.

I see. So now your myth relies upon the claim that there was no rainfall prior to the claimed global flood? Because, if rainfall was present, so too would erosion and consequent run-off.

Please explain how terrestrial life survived? And while you're at it, please also explain how all of the marine animals survived without any salt water!?

You see, it's a little like the moral that our father used to teach us - as soon as you commence making things up, you have to make even more up to explain your previous fabrications. Eventually, your story collapses under its own weight.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Why would it need a thousand years to double? If you have four kids you double the population of the next generation. My stepson has five and he's only 22. I think he's got 978 years to spare.

So if there are 8 people on the ark it takes 1,000 years to get to 16? I don't think so.

You will have to take that up with US Census Bureau. I gave you the link.

If I was going to take a guess:

1. No modern hospitals
2. No modern medicine, blood tests, MRIs
3. No Germ Theory
4. They drilled holes in your skull to treat headaches. <<==== Don't try this at home!
5. Inbreeding isn't a good thing.
5. Average life span: 20 years (4000 bc - 3000 bc Link Here)

 

[Queller]

In my example people would start reproducing at age 20 and stop with 10 kids at age 30. We don't know how long they lived. I'm assuming a lifestyle free from want, disease, and war, as the earth would have been pristine and productive for at least a few centuries.

Pristine? How in the world could the earth have been pristine with the corpses of hundreds of millions of humans and animals all over the place?

My absurd rate of reproduction anticipated your argument, thus, with a reproduction rate of one-half of that in my example the population would still have grown to 36 million people in 300 years after the flood.

and a population of

14,727,280,395,893,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

today. Same question as above.

The whole point of my post is to demonstrate that the earth could indeed be repopulated to vast numbers in a relatively short period of time. I invite you to do you own math using reasonable birthrates and longevity numbers of your own choosing. I believe that if you are honest you will come to the same conclusion.

Challenge accepted.

Population Growth Rate of 1.2%
Starting population: 6
Starting Year: 0
Ending Year: 4,500 (today)
Growth rate: .012 (1.2%)
Population at time of Tower of Babel (339 years post-Flood): 342 (ridiculously low)
Population at time of Jesus (~2,500 years post-Flood): 53,633,051,820,953 (ridiculously high)
Population now (~4,500 years post-Flood): 123,156,550,833,630,000,000,000 (ridiculously high)

Population Growth Rate of 2.91%
Starting population: 6
Starting Year: 0
Ending Year: 4,500 (today)
Growth rate: .0291 (2.91%)
Population at time of Tower of Babel (339 years post-Flood): 100,292 (reasonable)
Population at time of Jesus (~2,500 years post-Flood): 8,357,891,949,805,900,000,000,000,000,000 (ridiculously high)
Population now (~4,500 years post-Flood): 68,746,905,467,089,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (ridiculously high)

Population Growth Rate of .466%
Starting population: 6
Starting Year: 0
Ending Year: 4,500 (today)
Growth rate: .00466 (.466%)
Population at time of Tower of Babel (339 years post-Flood): 29 (ridiculously low)
Population at time of Jesus (~2,500 years post-Flood): 669,776 (demonstrably too low)
Population now (~4,500 years post-Flood): 7,313,959,597 (approximately correct)

No matter how you work it, you have either too few people at the time of the Tower of Babel, or orders of magnitude too many people today. To avoid this, you must adjust the growth rate to different levels at different times. Actual anthropologists do that because they know that the population today is a result of the huge increase in the population growth rate beginning around 300 years ago.

According to your model, there must have been a huge increase in population growth for an unspecified amount of time following the Flood, followed by an unexplained (and unevidenced) drop in population growth rate to almost nothing until the population explosion 300 years ago. What is your explanation and evidence for these changes in growth rate?

BTW, here is some additional info.

Population growth rate calculator

Exponential Growth Calculator

 

[JacksBratt]

I see. So now your myth relies upon the claim that there was no rainfall prior to the claimed global flood? Because, if rainfall was present, so too would erosion and consequent run-off.

Please explain how terrestrial life survived? And while you're at it, please also explain how all of the marine animals survived without any salt water!?

You see, it's a little like the moral that our father used to teach us - as soon as you commence making things up, you have to make even more up to explain your previous fabrications. Eventually, your story collapses under its own weight.

It is quite possible that there was no rain before the flood. The fact that Noah was shown a rainbow by God as a covenant with Him would not have been a big deal if it was not a new phenomenon. I think it would be a stretch to say that there was a couple of thousand years for the earth, with rain and hundreds of years for Noah himself where if there was rain there were no rainbows.

The earth was a much different place before the flood. The atmosphere was different and so was the vegetation and climate. It's possible that the plants were watered by a heavy due and high humidity.

If what the bible says is true, and I believe it is, then it is entirely possible that the first rain that humans saw, brought the flood.

 

[crjmurray]

evolution? evilution?

a thought came a few days ago about a child development center in irvine ca...as i drove past...

child development center...? secular teaching?
devel? devil? op? ment? center? sent her?

go spel? go spell? hmm... we wait for the promise of the pure language of God!

Zephaniah 3:9

Purification of the Nations

9"For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder. 10"From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones, Will bring My offerings.

What am I reading and why am I reading it here?

 

[Queller]

If there were 300 million people in the world at the time of Christ’s Resurrection,2 this requires a population growth rate of only 0.75% since the Flood, or a doubling time of 92 years—much less than the documented population growth rate in the years following the Flood.
source

and a population of 92,732,267,859,293 today. Oops.

 

[JacksBratt]

It is relatively easy to calculate the growth rate needed to get today’s population from Noah’s three sons and their wives, after the Flood. With the Flood at about 4,500 years ago, it needs less than 0.5% per year growth.6 That’s not very much.

Of course, population growth has not been constant. There is reasonably good evidence that growth has been slow at times—such as in the Middle Ages in Europe. However, data from the Bible (Genesis 10,11) shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the Flood. Shem had five sons, Ham had four, and Japheth had seven. If we assume that they had the same number of daughters, then they averaged 10.7 children per couple. In the next generation, Shem had 14 grandsons, Ham, 28 and Japheth, 23, or 130 children in total. That is an average of 8.1 per couple. These figures are consisent with God’s command to ‘be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth’ (Genesis 9:1).

Let us take the average of all births in the first two post-Flood generations as 8.53 children per couple. The average age at which the first son was born in the seven post-Flood generations in Shem’s line ranged from 35 to 29 years (Genesis 11:10–24), with an average of 31 years,7 so a generation time of 40 years is reasonable. Hence, just four generations after the Flood would see a total population of over 3,000 people (remembering that the longevity of people was such that Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, etc., were still alive at that time).8 This represents a population growth rate of 3.7% per year, or a doubling time of about 19 years.9

If there were 300 million people in the world at the time of Christ’s Resurrection,2 this requires a population growth rate of only 0.75% since the Flood, or a doubling time of 92 years—much less than the documented population growth rate in the years following the Flood.
source

All of God's miracles are impossible. That's why they are miracles. A rapid growth rate is simple mathematics. Many could reproduce very rapidly because he would have no enemies; until he again became his own enemy.

Diversity didn't happen until after Babel, when the races and languages were scattered throughout the human race.

As you can see by the retorts to your posts. One bunch get you trying to explain where all the people came from and the others say where have they all gone.

If they had eyes to see and ears to hear this thread would be blank.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

As you can see by the retorts to your posts. One bunch get you trying to explain where all the people came from and the others say where have they all gone.

If they had eyes to see and ears to hear this thread would be blank.

LOL, yeah, Math can be a cruel mistress.