Creationists: can you explain post-Flood repopulation?

[lasthero]

I'm pretty sure a newly pristine earth, free from disease, could feed a fast growing population. There was no scarcity of land for grazing animals or cultivating crops.

A) Why would it be 'free from disease'?

B) Land area isn't the problem. Crops don't just cultivate themselves. Resources are limited. A given environment is only going to be able to support so many lifeforms.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A) Why would it be 'free from disease'?

B) Land area isn't the problem. Crops don't just cultivate themselves. Resources are limited. A given environment is only going to be able to support so many lifeforms.

Part of the reason for the flood was that the earth itself was corrupted. Competition for resources wouldn't have been a problem for centuries, especially after God scattered mankind over the earth.

 

[SteveB28]

Part of the reason for the flood was that the earth itself was corrupted. Competition for resources wouldn't have been a problem for centuries, especially after God scattered mankind over the earth.

Have you ever seen what salt water does to arable land?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Have you ever seen what salt water does to arable land?

I guessing that first it disinfects the land before being washed away by the rains. Salt is very soluble.

 

[SteveB28]

I guessing that first it disinfects the land before being washed away by the rains. Salt is very soluble.

Very poor guessing I'm afraid. How fortunate it was not yourself in charge of the recovery efforts after out two most recent tsunamis.

http://www.fao.org/ag/tsunami/docs/saltwater-guide.pdf

http://www.acpfg.com.au/blog/?p=43

And remember, these were the effects on limited areas that were only affected by several days or weeks. The flood myth would have us believe that the entire earth was covered in toxic saltwater for a year!

What crops would that band of 8 have eaten please? What fruit?

 

[MerlinJ]

Sowing the earth with salt is something people did to their enemies in the bible too.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Very poor guessing I'm afraid. How fortunate it was not yourself in charge of the recovery efforts after out two most recent tsunamis.

http://www.fao.org/ag/tsunami/docs/saltwater-guide.pdf

http://www.acpfg.com.au/blog/?p=43

And remember, these were the effects on limited areas that were only affected by several days or weeks. The flood myth would have us believe that the entire earth was covered in toxic saltwater for a year!

What crops would that band of 8 have eaten please? What fruit?

Your first link supports my claim that abundant rains will quickly leach salt out of the soil. Also recall that the earth was saturated with fresh water from 40 days of rainfall before the seawater came in. This would certainly mitigate the incursion of salt water into the soil.

Also I'm sure that 8 people could find enough to eat until crops could be grown. They also had provisions on the ark to eat. Perhaps they ate some of the animals.

 

[SteveB28]

Your first link supports my claim that abundant rains will quickly leach salt out of the soil. Also recall that the earth was saturated with fresh water from 40 days of rainfall before the seawater came in. This would certainly mitigate the incursion of salt water into the soil.

The myth states that the earth was covered for a year! The "abundant rains" washing the soil free of salt assumes that the salt water has now subsided. This is not the case in your myth. In fact, it is the reverse. At first, fresh water would be falling on the earth (although you do have all that "fountains of the deep" nonsense to consider). And then the saltwater from the rising oceans would be lying on top of the soil - for a year.

You haven't done much farming have you?

Also I'm sure that 8 people could find enough to eat until crops could be grown.

What exactly? No magic answer please.

They also had provisions on the ark to eat. Perhaps they ate some of the animals.

Yes, perhaps as the animals died of starvation, or from drinking fouled, salty water!

 

[PsychoSarah]

So let's also talk about cheetahs. Was there a genetic bottleneck recently? Mmmmmm.

Depends on what you mean by recently. A little over 10,000 years ago was when the cheetah bottleneck occurred.

 

[JacksBratt]

Honestly, three related males with three unrelated female wives producing the diversity of humans we have today, seems much more believable than one solitary, single cell life form producing all the biodiversity of the whole earth, that exists today....

Just say'n.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The myth states that the earth was covered for a year! The "abundant rains" washing the soil free of salt assumes that the salt water has now subsided. This is not the case in your myth. In fact, it is the reverse. At first, fresh water would be falling on the earth (although you do have all that "fountains of the deep" nonsense to consider). And then the saltwater from the rising oceans would be lying on top of the soil - for a year.

You haven't done much farming have you?



What exactly? No magic answer please.



Yes, perhaps as the animals died of starvation, or from drinking fouled, salty water!

According to the story they all lived, reproduced, and.......here we are.

 

[KWCrazy]

It is relatively easy to calculate the growth rate needed to get today’s population from Noah’s three sons and their wives, after the Flood. With the Flood at about 4,500 years ago, it needs less than 0.5% per year growth.6 That’s not very much.

Of course, population growth has not been constant. There is reasonably good evidence that growth has been slow at times—such as in the Middle Ages in Europe. However, data from the Bible (Genesis 10,11) shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the Flood. Shem had five sons, Ham had four, and Japheth had seven. If we assume that they had the same number of daughters, then they averaged 10.7 children per couple. In the next generation, Shem had 14 grandsons, Ham, 28 and Japheth, 23, or 130 children in total. That is an average of 8.1 per couple. These figures are consisent with God’s command to ‘be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth’ (Genesis 9:1).

Let us take the average of all births in the first two post-Flood generations as 8.53 children per couple. The average age at which the first son was born in the seven post-Flood generations in Shem’s line ranged from 35 to 29 years (Genesis 11:10–24), with an average of 31 years,7 so a generation time of 40 years is reasonable. Hence, just four generations after the Flood would see a total population of over 3,000 people (remembering that the longevity of people was such that Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, etc., were still alive at that time).8 This represents a population growth rate of 3.7% per year, or a doubling time of about 19 years.9

If there were 300 million people in the world at the time of Christ’s Resurrection,2 this requires a population growth rate of only 0.75% since the Flood, or a doubling time of 92 years—much less than the documented population growth rate in the years following the Flood.
source

All of God's miracles are impossible. That's why they are miracles. A rapid growth rate is simple mathematics. Many could reproduce very rapidly because he would have no enemies; until he again became his own enemy.

Diversity didn't happen until after Babel, when the races and languages were scattered throughout the human race.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

...
Also I'm sure that 8 people could find enough to eat until crops could be grown. They also had provisions on the ark to eat. Perhaps they ate some of the animals.

I grew up on a farm, and I can assure you, crops take a lot of effort when you start with good soil. Starting with soil that had been submerged in saltwater for a year would be incredibly difficult.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Honestly, three related males with three unrelated female wives producing the diversity of humans we have today, seems much more believable than one solitary, single cell life form producing all the biodiversity of the whole earth, that exists today....

Just say'n.

Great Point.

It is totally believable that humans mated and produced more humans.

I'm convinced.

 

[AV1611VET]

Starting with soil that had been submerged in saltwater for a year would be incredibly difficult.

What if you took a globe of seawater (we'll call it Terra Aqua), called a giant landmass out of it (we'll call it Pangaea), then spoke and that entire landmass was instantly covered in flora?

How incredibly difficult would that be, in your opinion?

 

[DerelictJunction]

What if you took a globe of seawater (we'll call it Terra Aqua), called a giant landmass out of it (we'll call it Pangaea), then spoke and that entire landmass was instantly covered in flora?

How incredibly difficult would that be, in your opinion?

Really difficult. I am unable to violate the laws of physics by using my voice to move large masses.

 

[AV1611VET]

Really difficult. I am unable to violate the laws of physics by using my voice to move large masses.

Incomprehensible, isn't it?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I grew up on a farm, and I can assure you, crops take a lot of effort when you start with good soil. Starting with soil that had been submerged in saltwater for a year would be incredibly difficult.

I think Noah and the others planted gardens, not field crops. A small plot can be intensely managed to produce an abundance of food. Field crops such as you suggest were not needed right away and would wait until the soil was purged of salt.

As a longtime organic gardener I would be giddy at the prospect of using the huge amount of composted bedding and manure from the animals on the ark. I could have a rather large garden up and producing in no time.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think Noah and the others planted gardens, not field crops. A small plot can be intensely managed to produce an abundance of food. Field crops such as you suggest were not needed right away and would wait until the soil was purged of salt.

As a longtime organic gardener I would be giddy at the prospect of using the huge amount of composted bedding and manure from the animals on the ark. I could have a rather large garden up and producing in no time.

I somehow don't think God is going to let salt stop Him from carrying out His plans for the future.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Incomprehensible, isn't it?

Using your loose definition, a lot of things are "incomprehensible". That doesn't make any of them true.
Maybe, God simply miracle'd all the animal and plant populations into place after the flood and included the variations within the different species' genome so that it looked like each species had a population bottleneck at a different time than any other species.

That would solve the population problem.