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Creationist Verses

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gluadys

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WAB said:
I confess to not being the smartest guy around, and so would you please explain to me how something can be true but not factual?

Or... how can something (anything) be factual but not true? After all, for the one postulation to be true (or factual?) the reverse must be as well.:confused:

Fact is a sub-set of truth. All facts are true. But all truth is not necessarily fact. A poem or a story can express a deep truth that may be impossible to present as an observed and measured fact.

When we come to the first chapter of Genesis, the question is not how long the days were. It is what kind of account the Genesis account is.

Is this story intended to be a reportorial documentary of the history of creation in a chronological sense? Or is it intended to be a theological account presented in a mythical and symbolic framework?

In the first case the days must be a form of measurement of time analogous to the days on a calendar, although calendars had not been invented yet. They must be part of the earth's history.

In the second they are not part of the earth's history any more than the days in Bridget Jones' Diary. They are days in the story and have a theological function in the story.

Both ways of looking at the story assert that it is true. The first also asserts it is a fact. But this assertion runs counter to what we know to be fact from the study of the earth itself.
 
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RightWingGirl

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artybloke said:
Sure it's true. Just not factual.

The definition of true is Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous..---Dictionary.com

Is the verse Genesis 20:11 true or false? Is there another option I cannot see?
 
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Dracil

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RightWingGirl said:
The definition of true is Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous..---Dictionary.com

Is the verse Genesis 20:11 true or false? Is there another option I cannot see?
That is not the only definition of true at dictionary.com. You would also do well to click the "Usage Note" link for the definition you quoted and read what it says.

Once again, it's TRUE, and some of it actually happened.
 
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gluadys

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RightWingGirl said:
The definition of true is Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous..---Dictionary.com

Is the verse Genesis 20:11 true or false? Is there another option I cannot see?

Genesis 20:11
And Abraham said, "I did it [called his wife his sister] because I thought 'There is no fear of God in this place and they will kill me because of my wife.' "

I don't know if it is true, but it is plausible that it is.
 
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RightWingGirl said:
The definition of true is Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous..---Dictionary.com

Just use Truth instead of the word Fact. We're pulling teeth by using our own words instead of using the words TEs choose to use. TEs are going to expect more structured wording than speaking like you or I would talk in our everyday lives.
 
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gluadys said:
Genesis 20:11
And Abraham said, "I did it [called his wife his sister] because I thought 'There is no fear of God in this place and they will kill me because of my wife.' "

I don't know if it is true, but it is plausible that it is.

What do you mean by "[you] don't know if its true"? To me, its in the Bible, so it is true. The question is only the context of the verse.

As for the verse, Sarai was Abram's neice (Abram's brother Haran's daughter). So they were related. And they were only 10 years apart in age. It's quite possible that Abram put those two things together and decided to have her called his sister out of fear of what they might do to him. Frankly they might have acted like brother and sister in the early years. But we don't know much unless you look at the midrash stories of Abram.

Did anyone know that Noah and Abram might have known each other, based on the ages in the Bible?
 
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chaoschristian

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RightWingGirl said:
Did the Lord create the heavens, the earth, and the sea, with all the life in them,

Yes, as the revelation of scripture tells us so.

in six solar days?

No, as the revelation of Creation tell us otherwise.
 
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RightWingGirl

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Mark2010 said:
Right wing girl,

Do you say that these verses imply 24-hour days, or could they also refer to some other time period?

The word used is the hebrew yom, which in context could not possibly refer to more than a solar, 24 hour day. You can find a complete study of the word here I would be very interested on your thoughts and comments on the artical, if you wouldn't mind.
 
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RightWingGirl

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chaoschristian said:
Yes, as the revelation of scripture tells us so.



No, as the revelation of Creation tell us otherwise.

As you had to seperate my question into two parts to answer it exactly, I assume your answer to the whole thought (Created..in six solar days) is no?
 
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chaoschristian

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RightWingGirl said:
As you had to seperate my question into two parts to answer it exactly, I assume your answer to the whole thought (Created..in six solar days) is no?

The answer to your question in this post is, "Yes, because I wanted to make sure my position on Creation was clear."
 
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RightWingGirl

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Dracil said:
There's a reason he didn't put YEC under Origin of Life in his profile.

Dracil, do you think this verse,

Exd 20:11For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Which states that God created everything in six days (yom, solar days) is true (factually true, truth, correct) or false?
 
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RightWingGirl

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chaoschristian said:
The answer to your question in this post is, "Yes, because I wanted to make sure my position on Creation was clear."

If you think the sentance
"Lord created the heavens, the earth, and the sea, with all the life in them, in six solar days."
is false (Not correct, factually true, or historically correct)

Then you also think the sentance
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them,
Which has the same meaning as the sentance above, is also false, (Not correct, factually true, or historically correct)



Is this correct?:wave:
 
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chaoschristian

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RightWingGirl said:
If you think the sentance
"Lord created the heavens, the earth, and the sea, with all the life in them, in six solar days."
is false (Not correct, factually true, or historically correct)

Then you also think the sentance
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them,
Which has the same meaning as the sentance above, is also false, (Not correct, factually true, or historically correct)



Is this correct?:wave:

Let's look at it through logic . . .

Premise 1: 'The Lord created the heavens, the earth, and the seas, with all the life in them, in six days' is a statement that is to be interpreted as indicative fact.

Response: False

Premise 2: 'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them' is a statement that is to be interpreted as indicative fact.

Response: False

Within this context Premise 1 and Premise 2 are logical equivalents. If P1 is false, P2 is false; if P2 is false, P1 is false.

Both statements are false as stated within this context.
 
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Dracil

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RightWingGirl said:
Dracil, do you think this verse,

Exd 20:11For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Which states that God created everything in six days (yom, solar days) is true (factually true, truth, correct) or false?

I think what I have told you. It is True. I do not necessarily think it happened that way.

This is almost like trying to explain the Trinity to non-Christians.
 
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RightWingGirl

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chaoschristian said:
Let's look at it through logic . . .

Premise 1: 'The Lord created the heavens, the earth, and the seas, with all the life in them, in six days' is a statement that is to be interpreted as indicative fact.

Response: False

Premise 2: 'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them' is a statement that is to be interpreted as indicative fact.

Response: False

Within this context Premise 1 and Premise 2 are logical equivalents. If P1 is false, P2 is false; if P2 is false, P1 is false.

Both statements are false as stated within this context.
Thank you for your concise reply. So few people reason logically, it is good to see someone do so!

If you wouldn't mind, Sir, I have another question. What do you think the average Hebrew at the time this was written, without the knowledge of modern science, would have thought that this meant;
'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them'
 
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Marshall Janzen

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RightWingGirl said:
Dracil, do you think this verse,

Exd 20:11For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Which states that God created everything in six days (yom, solar days) is true (factually true, truth, correct) or false?
I'm not Dracil, but I believe that verse is true yet not fact in much the same way as this verse:

"Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, 'Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.' " (Revelation 16:1, ESV)

RightWingGirl, do you think that God's wrath will (or was) literally placed into seven literal bowls? Do you see how even if this verse isn't providing literal facts, that doesn't make it false?

I interpret the seven days of Genesis 1 and the seven bowls of Revelation 16 similarly. Both sets of seven items are symbolic, literary containers used to relate true events no human had yet witnessed to a fallible, human audience. The structure, sequence and nature of the account has literary significance. Creation could have just as easily been described with seven trumpets as seven days, but by using days the inspired author reiterated the Sabbath rest that God first revealed at Sinai.

The accounts of the days and the bowls are both true, but neither is a bland historical record. They're far more than that.
 
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