Creationist schools and universities

[AV1611VET]

The issue with teaching creationism in public schools is that not everyone who attends the schools is Christian.

So?

If we taught Christian creationism we'd also have to teach Hindu creationism, pagan creationism, and all of the other types of creationism out there.

If you feel that's what you have to do, do so.

But teach them for what they are: doctrines of devils, meant to plagiarize or mock creationism.

 

[AV1611VET]

One of the requirements is that the subject have an overwhelmingly secular purpose despite being a religious belief.

Then don't call it a religious belief.

Call it Truth, fact, history, whatever.

Calling it a "religious belief" puts it on the same par as other religions.

You guys quit sounding like your hands are tied.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Think -- for pity's sake -- and quit making up excuses not to.

 

[Speedwell]

Then don't call it a religious belief.

Call it Truth, fact, history, whatever.

Calling it a "religious belief" puts it on the same par as other religions.

You guys quit sounding like your hands are tied.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Think -- for pity's sake -- and quit making up excuses not to.

Our hands are "tied," by the Constitution and the practical realities of a secular state with a religiously diverse population. There is no good reason to teach Evangelical Fundamentalist doctrine as "truth" in the public schools. If you want it taught to your children, that's fine, but you will have to do it yourself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why?

Can't creationism be taught in the public schools?

They kicked us out; let them admit they were wrong and let us back in.

But to do that, they would either have to get Satan's permission first; or God to override Satan's orders.

Because it is religion and not science. There is no scientific evidence that supports it and "creation scientist" is usually an oxymoron. To be a scientist one must follow the scientific method and most creationist organizations requite their workers to swear not to follow the scientific method.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then don't call it a religious belief.

Call it Truth, fact, history, whatever.

Calling it a "religious belief" puts it on the same par as other religions.

You guys quit sounding like your hands are tied.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Think -- for pity's sake -- and quit making up excuses not to.

There is no significant difference between your beliefs those of other religions. Why are you complaining?

 

[AV1611VET]

Our hands are "tied," by the Constitution and the practical realities of a secular state with a religiously diverse population.

Ya ... academia fought hard to get this country in that shape.

Well ... they got what they wanted.

Now look what they're doing with it.

Fighting like cats and dogs.

There is no good reason to teach Evangelical Fundamentalist doctrine as "truth" in the public schools.

How about teaching creationism in history class? forget the labels.

If you want it taught to your children, that's fine, but you will have to do it yourself.

Do you also, as I suspect, disagree with creationism in countries that don't have a "separation of God from Government / Church from State" academic clause?

For example, is it okay with you for Muslim countries to teach creationism in their public schools?

After all, they don't have a constitution like ours to hide behind.

Please answer this, as I suspect you're just using the Constitution as an excuse to justify getting the Bible out of the way of evolution.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because it is religion and not science.

What happened to calling it "history"?

Are you calling it "religious" so you can have it banned?

There is no scientific evidence that supports it ...

No kidding!?

I've only been saying that here almost twice longer than you have.

... and "creation scientist" is usually an oxymoron.

"Usually"???

Don't water it down like that.

Be like I and call them what they are: oxymorons.

To be a scientist one must follow the scientific method and most creationist organizations requite their workers to swear not to follow the scientific method.

Huh ... imagine that.

Let's get back to school, shall we?

History class is starting and they're teaching ... er ... all about the Challenger.

Their version of it anyway.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How about teaching creationism in history class? forget the labels.

Myths are not history.

It could be taught in a comparative religion class, but then one would need to teach other creation myths and compare it to them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What happened to calling it "history"?

Are you calling it "religious" so you can have it banned?
No kidding!?

Because it is not history either. It is myth. It is an event that never happened.

I've only been saying that here almost twice longer than you have.
"Usually"???

Don't water it down like that.

Be like I and call them what they are: oxymorons.

Then why support errors?

Huh ... imagine that.

Let's get back to school, shall we?

History class is starting and they're teaching ... er ... all about the Challenger.

Once again, myths are not taught in history class.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no significant difference between your beliefs those of other religions.

LOL

You don't know the difference between JEHOVAH and Allah?

Not knowing the difference between two things can lead to embarrassing moments in IAU history.

 

[AV1611VET]

Myths are not history.

And history isn't myths.

 

[AV1611VET]

Once again, myths are not taught in history class.

Then teach creationism instead.

 

[Speedwell]

Do you also, as I suspect, disagree with creationism in countries that don't have a "separation of God from Government / Church from State" academic clause?

I don't know of any such countries, even those I am aware of which are officially Christian teach evolution in their public schools. You understand, I hope, that creationism is largely an American phenomenon, little known elsewhere outside of the Muslim world.

For example, is it okay with you for Muslim countries to teach creationism in their public schools?

I don't care very much what Muslim countries teach in their public schools. Some, but by no means all, teach evolution in their public schools anyway.

After all, they don't have a constitution like ours to hide behind.

I am disappointed that you have such poor regard for document which guarantees your freedom of religion. But I suppose you would rather have a constitution which allows you to use government schools indoctrinate children of other faiths in your particular brand of the Christian religion.

(How would you feel if it was Roman Catholics who had that option?)

Please answer this, as I suspect you're just using the Constitution as an excuse to justify getting the Bible out of the way of evolution.

I don't care all that much about the theory of evolution--it's just a scientific theory, and scientific theories come and go. I would not subscribe to or support your interpretation of scripture even if there was no theory of evolution.

 

[Nando Ronteltap]

It has failed in science class, where it doesn't belong.

You don't understand that the concept of creationism is the fundamentals on which everything else is built. Science and religion.

Students are taught about the difference between facts and opinions at age 9 or something? That is really teaching creationism, if you would go into the details of what facts and opinions are.

Students now basically solely get taught about things being forced, cause and effect. So knowledge about how things are chosen is out the window, comprehension of subjectivity is out the window too. This is very bad obviously. As far as I know religious schools are generally the same as public schools in solely teaching about cause and effect, things being forced.

 

[Subduction Zone]

LOL

You don't know the difference between JEHOVAH and Allah?

Not knowing the difference between two things can lead to embarrassing moments in IAU history.

I do know the difference, I also know the similarities. You are projecting again at best.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then teach creationism instead.

Now you are guilty of contradicting yourself. Like it or not creationism is a myth. It could be taught in a comparative religion class. But once again they would have to also teach other creation myths. Creationists hate this because how silly their beliefs are become rather obvious when this is done.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And history isn't myths.

Right, so we can't teach myths like creationism. You might finally be getting it (but I am betting that you don't).

 

[Speedwell]

You don't understand that the concept of creationism is the fundamentals on which everything else is built. Science and religion.

Students are taught about the difference between facts and opinions at age 9 or something? That is really teaching creationism, if you would go into the details of what facts and opinions are.

Students now basically solely get taught about things being forced, cause and effect. So knowledge about how things are chosen is out the window, comprehension of subjectivity is out the window too. This is very bad obviously. As far as I know religious schools are generally the same as public schools in solely teaching about cause and effect, things being forced.

You've left me behind with that argument. How is it that you can set a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation stories in opposition to determinism?

 

[Strathos]

So?

So, in a secular nation with freedom of religion, the government can't favor one religion over any other.

If you feel that's what you have to do, do so.

But teach them for what they are: doctrines of devils, meant to plagiarize or mock creationism.

They would say the same about your version of creationism. In fact, many Christians say that about slightly different versions of Christian creationism. Who gets to decide which one is true?

 

[AV1611VET]

So, in a secular nation with freedom of religion, the government can't favor one religion over any other.

IN GOD WE TRUST

God, bless America!
Land that I love!
Stand beside her,
And guide her,
Through the night, with the Light from above!

They would say the same about your version of creationism.

And they can fail the class if they want.

You know, get an F.

In fact, many Christians say that about slightly different versions of Christian creationism.

Then they can do it off school property, but not in the classroom.

Who gets to decide which one is true?

Not the students.