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Creationist definition of evolution

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Deamiter

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Creationists have become rather notorious for using the term "evolution" to encompass a wide range of concepts in science, all of which conveniently have their own names (so we know what we're talking about when we use the term).

Would it be possible to get a creationist definition of evolution so we might compare it to the definition used in science? Does the term 'evolution' simply encompass anything in science with which you happen to disagree, is it Hovind's list of different areas of science with the word evolution tacked on, or is it something more specific?

Another question that should be addressed by this definition -- often creationists say that "evolution says we came from a rock." Does the creationist definition of evolution claim to describe any chemical reactions that could lead to self-replicators?

I know, it's easier to believe something (or disbelieve something) when it's ill defined, but for the sake of clarity, why don't we try to pin down what all creationists mean when they say, "evolution didn't happen."
 
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vossler

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Deamiter said:
Creationists have become rather notorious for using the term "evolution" to encompass a wide range of concepts in science, all of which conveniently have their own names (so we know what we're talking about when we use the term).
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As someone known in these parts as a 'notorious' creationist who is doubly cursed because he's also not a scientist I feel I'm qualified to respond.

One species evolving or becoming another.

And your are right, it hasn't happened.
 
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Deamiter

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vossler said:
As someone known in these parts as a 'notorious' creationist who is doubly cursed because he's also not a scientist I feel I'm qualified to respond.

One species evolving or becoming another.

And your are right, it hasn't happened.
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Very nice. Of course if you wanted it to be a useful definition, you'd have to define species too (and perhaps show why the species scientists show to turn into other species all the time don't fit your definition). I'd suggest changing your definition to "One kind evolving or becoming another." It's still useless until you can define kind, but it at least doesn't attempt to redefine species just to make evolution wrong by definition.

Now that we've established at least one definition vossler, would you please correct your fellow creationists when they use the word "evolution" incorrectly?

That'd be great thanks.

Oh, and I'd love to hear any other creationist definitions of this word -- I'm sure vossler isn't the only one out there who rejects the scientific definition!
 
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Dannager

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vossler said:
As someone known in these parts as a 'notorious' creationist who is doubly cursed because he's also not a scientist I feel I'm qualified to respond.

One species evolving or becoming another.
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And the definition of "species" that you accept is the one that the field of biology uses? Or is it something else entirely that you'd like to share with us?
 
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lucaspa

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Deamiter said:
Would it be possible to get a creationist definition of evolution so we might compare it to the definition used in science?
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Probably not. Deamiter, different creationists use "evolution" differently and sometimes the same creationist will use "evolution" differently at different times.

Hovind uses "evolution" as meaning "atheism" or "philosophical materialism". Most creationists, at some time or another, do this. You have to be alert to when the "definition" of evolution slips from the "descent with modification" (the scientific meaning) to "atheism". One tell tale sign is when the creationist starts talking about either abiogenesis or the origin of the universe.

At that point you know the individual is no longer discussing the validity of evolution as a scientific theory but is arguing theism vs atheism.

Does the creationist definition of evolution claim to describe any chemical reactions that could lead to self-replicators?
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No. Creationists deny that there are any chemical reactions that could do this. That's the whole point of using "we came from rocks" as a definition of evolution.

If you see this "we came from rocks", that's your tip-off you are now dealing with theism vs atheism.
 
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lucaspa

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vossler said:
As someone known in these parts as a 'notorious' creationist who is doubly cursed because he's also not a scientist I feel I'm qualified to respond.

One species evolving or becoming another.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, both of the premier young earth creationist organization -- ICR and Answers in Genesis -- disagree with you. Both acknowledge that species have evolved to other species! So, according to your fellow creationists, evolution HAS happened!

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v22n3_liger.asp
http://www.icr.org/goodsci/botany.htm
 
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Dannager

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And now watch those goalposts ever so softly sliiiiiiiiide.
 
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lucaspa

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Dannager said:
And now watch those goalposts ever so softly sliiiiiiiiide.
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And you can watch them slide in the very webpage I posted! AiG starts talking about "barmin" (= "created kinds"). The new creationist hypothesis is that there are several originally created kinds instead of ONE common ancestor for all life. AiG allows evolution, and LOTS of it, in descent with modification within the baramin.

However, what is really interesting is to compare the diagram on that AIG webpage with the diagram (and there is only one) in Origin of Species.
 
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