Creationism - Lazy Man's science?

[I_Love_Cheese]

I am talking about the recent artical in Time magazine in regards to his love letters.
It seems among other thing he was interested in a mother and her daughter at the same time.

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1211594,00.html

Sorry, I thought you had something relevant to say. My bad.

 

[JohnR7]

And what bearing would that have on his scientific or mathematical contributions?

I am not going to judge him BUT if he were found to be a sexually immoral person, that would have a great deal of impact upon how much we can trust what he says.

1 Cor. 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. [10] Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

The point is that light has no fellowship with darkness. People claim not to "believe" in God, but really they just want to life a life of sin and they want to violate the moral laws of God. So to try to justify themselves they will try to claim that there is no God and that they will NOT be held accountable. But they will be held accountable.

Numbers 32:23
But if you do not do so, then take note, you have sinned against the Lord; and be sure your sin will find you out.

 

[Paulos23]

I am not going to judge him BUT if he were found to be a sexually immoral person, that would have a great deal of impact upon how much we can trust what he says.

1 Cor. 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. [10] Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

The point is that light has no fellowship with darkness. People claim not to "believe" in God, but really they just want to life a life of sin and they want to violate the moral laws of God. So to try to justify themselves they will try to claim that there is no God and that they will NOT be held accountable. But they will be held accountable.

Numbers 32:23
But if you do not do so, then take note, you have sinned against the Lord; and be sure your sin will find you out.

Again: What bearing would that have on his scientific or mathematical contributions?

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

I am not going to judge him BUT if he were found to be a sexually immoral person, that would have a great deal of impact upon how much we can trust what he says.

1 Cor. 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. [10] Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

The point is that light has no fellowship with darkness. People claim not to "believe" in God, but really they just want to life a life of sin and they want to violate the moral laws of God. So to try to justify themselves they will try to claim that there is no God and that they will NOT be held accountable. But they will be held accountable.

Numbers 32:23
But if you do not do so, then take note, you have sinned against the Lord; and be sure your sin will find you out.

If the subject of his work were morality like Jimmy Swaggart and too many others to name here, maybe, but otherwise, I still fail to see any relevance.

I suspect you have "lusted" as well, should I therefore dismiss you entirely?

 

[And-U-Say]

Admittedly, I'm not well versed enough to present a complete challenge to this idea. But I will say that a review of phase diagrams across a range of temperatures and pressures, sufficient to present triple-points for water, would tend to suggest that there is a fundamental flaw in your reasoning.

One of the barriers to boiling and vaporization of water is atmospheric pressure. This is why as we gain altitude, (and lose pressure), the boiling point of water drops. Boiling point is roughly defined as the temperature where saturated vapor pressure equals the surrounding atmospheric pressure. So as the atmospheric pressure is released, the vapor density of the water begins to exceed that of the atmospheric pressure. It seems reasonable that this is why a man in space, without a pressurized suit, would experience boiling of his blood even though he is not subjected to high temperatures.

I may be overlooking or misunderstanding some part of this. If so, I welcome some clarification.

A phase diagram is not really relevant to the question. In fact, it illustrates my point. A phase diagram is for water alone, nothing else present. If your phase diagram is detailed enough, you will see the 100F/1psi relationship that I mention below.

A psychrometric chart would be useful. All liquids, water included, have a vapor pressure of the gaseous phase of the liquid which is proportional to temperature. This vapor above the liquid is in equilibrium (well, if it is allowed to come to equilibrium) with the liquid below it. As an example, liquid water at 100F has a vapor pressure of about 1psi. Thus, as long as there is about 1psi of water vapor over the 100F water, no net exchange of vapor and liquid will take place. This is true regardless of the presense of any other inert gasses (like nitrogen, oxygen, etc,). So, 100F water won't boil or even evaporate unless the water vapor pressure over the liquid is less than 1 psi, regardless of the pressure of any other gasses. In our atmosphere there is some degree of equilibrium of water vapor over the oceans (indeed, everywhere) and this is refered to as relative humidity.

The boiling point of water does drop as you increase in altitude, but that's for a different reason, more of a macroscopic phenomena. Boiling is a physical phenomena and does not describe everything that is happening from an evaporation standpoint. Air "stops" the boiling process but does not stop evaporation. Water vapor, on the other hand, stops both. Thus, if you were placed in a chamber with 1 psi water in it and nothing else, your blood would not boil, or even evaporate (although you would suffocate from lack of oxygen).

 

[Loudmouth]

Just to be a jerk, it is not the force of 14.7 psi that keeps water liquid on the face of the earth. If we were to remove all of the oxygen, nitrogen, argon, and carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, the oceans would not boil nor even simmer (although life would be in big trouble). It is water vapor in equilibrium with the liquid water that keeps water in the liquid form, so to speak (that and temperature). A glass of water is perfectly content to remain calm and liquid in an appropriate atmosphere of water vapor alone.

Ideal gas law and all.

How much water would have to turn to vapor (ie boil) before the Earth's atmosphere was 1 psi?

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

How much water would have to turn to vapor (ie boil) before the Earth's atmosphere was 1 psi?

not much, the rough average between liquid and gas volume at atmospheric pressure is around 1000:1 so maybe 1/15000 of the water would be necessary to generate 1psi.

 

[OdwinOddball]

I am not going to judge him BUT if he were found to be a sexually immoral person, that would have a great deal of impact upon how much we can trust what he says.

1 Cor. 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. [10] Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

No John, it would not. The validity of his work is only based on who well that work stands up. Gneeral Relativity and Special Relativity will not go away even if it turned out Eisntein had sex with his entire family. The theories themselves work, are testable, and produce verified results.

A persons moral foundation has no bearing on wether the science they produce is good or not.

The point is that light has no fellowship with darkness. People claim not to "believe" in God, but really they just want to life a life of sin and they want to violate the moral laws of God. So to try to justify themselves they will try to claim that there is no God and that they will NOT be held accountable. But they will be held accountable.

Numbers 32:23
But if you do not do so, then take note, you have sinned against the Lord; and be sure your sin will find you out.

Sorry John, you fail at mind reading. Most of us really do actually lack belief in gods because of lack of evidence, not because we want to do thign sdenied by Christainity. Being Christian doesn't instantly make someone a supreme moral being.

John, I once thought you were a fairly intelligent fellow, who just had some strange beliefs. I guess I was wrong, you really do live in your own little fantasy world.

Are you ready to pony up that evidence yet, or are you still scared to admit the truth?

 

[And-U-Say]

How much water would have to turn to vapor (ie boil) before the Earth's atmosphere was 1 psi?

32x1/14.7 = about 2.2 feet. However... thats at 100F. The average temperature of the earth is much lower, about 70F (actually, less that 70, but I am not going to look the number up right now). At that temperature, the water vapor pressure is about 0.35psi. So a more realistic figure would be

32 x 0.35/14.7 or about 0.75 feet. Since there is already considerable water vapor in the air (on average probably something like 75%), the final figure would be about

0.75 x 0.25 = 0.2 feet or about 2 inches. After that had evaporated from the water, all boiling would stop and then it would be just evaporation and condensation. It would be a very different weather system then we have today without the dilluting effects of the air. But, you would probably be able to walk the surface with an oxygen mask on.

(edit: on second thought, no. Oxygen would not be enough. You need to have a sufficient partial pressure of oxygen to survive, a pressure of about 3psi. The 0.35psi environment of our hypothetical water vapor only world would not allow that much oxygen into your lungs, and you would suffocate.)

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

32x1/14.7 = about 2.2 feet. However... thats at 100F. The average temperature of the earth is much lower, about 70F (actually, less that 70, but I am not going to look the number up right now). At that temperature, the water vapor pressure is about 0.35psi. So a more realistic figure would be

32 x 0.35/14.7 or about 0.75 feet. Since there is already considerable water vapor in the air (on average probably something like 75%), the final figure would be about

0.75 x 0.25 = 0.2 feet or about 2 inches. After that had evaporated from the water, all boiling would stop and then it would be just evaporation and condensation. It would be a very different weather system then we have today without the dilluting effects of the air. But, you would probably be able to walk the surface with an oxygen mask on.

crazy question, but where does the 32 come from, and what setup are you using?

 

[Beastt]

I am not going to judge him BUT if he were found to be a sexually immoral person, that would have a great deal of impact upon how much we can trust what he says.

1 Cor. 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. [10] Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

The point is that light has no fellowship with darkness. People claim not to "believe" in God, but really they just want to life a life of sin and they want to violate the moral laws of God. So to try to justify themselves they will try to claim that there is no God and that they will NOT be held accountable. But they will be held accountable.

Numbers 32:23
But if you do not do so, then take note, you have sinned against the Lord; and be sure your sin will find you out.

John, the man could write dirty love letters to chocolate teddy-bears. It doesn't detract one little bit from the genius of his work in science. Your book might say otherwise but your book was written by men and is known to be wrong in many areas. This is just one more place where it contrasts with reality.

 

[Jase]

I am not going to judge him BUT if he were found to be a sexually immoral person, that would have a great deal of impact upon how much we can trust what he says.

1 Cor. 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. [10] Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

The point is that light has no fellowship with darkness. People claim not to "believe" in God, but really they just want to life a life of sin and they want to violate the moral laws of God. So to try to justify themselves they will try to claim that there is no God and that they will NOT be held accountable. But they will be held accountable.

Numbers 32:23
But if you do not do so, then take note, you have sinned against the Lord; and be sure your sin will find you out.

Everyone has sinned against God, so by your logic, absolutely no one on the planet is worth paying attention to, including you.

And also, I do recall Jesus interacting with Mary Magdalene, a prostitute. I don't believe he cast her aside and completely ignored her. He forgave her, did he not? She was certainly considered sexually immoral, yet Jesus had the compassion to forgive her.

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

Everyone has sinned against God, so by your logic, absolutely no one on the planet is worth paying attention to, including you.

And also, I do recall Jesus interacting with Mary Magdalene, a prostitute. I don't believe he cast her aside and completely ignored her. He forgave her, did he not? She was certainly considered sexually immoral, yet Jesus had the compassion to forgive her.

You mean even John has probably sinned against god, I think I agree, thus we should ignore him as well.

John, can you prove you have not sinned and should not be ignored?

 

[Beastt]

32x1/14.7 = about 2.2 feet. However... thats at 100F. The average temperature of the earth is much lower, about 70F (actually, less that 70, but I am not going to look the number up right now). At that temperature, the water vapor pressure is about 0.35psi. So a more realistic figure would be

32 x 0.35/14.7 or about 0.75 feet. Since there is already considerable water vapor in the air (on average probably something like 75%), the final figure would be about

0.75 x 0.25 = 0.2 feet or about 2 inches. After that had evaporated from the water, all boiling would stop and then it would be just evaporation and condensation. It would be a very different weather system then we have today without the dilluting effects of the air. But, you would probably be able to walk the surface with an oxygen mask on.

(edit: on second thought, no. Oxygen would not be enough. You need to have a sufficient partial pressure of oxygen to survive, a pressure of about 3psi. The 0.35psi environment of our hypothetical water vapor only world would not allow that much oxygen into your lungs, and you would suffocate.)

Okay, I think I understand about the layer of water vapor over the liquid and how that presents enough pressure against the liquid to stop boiling and, more or less, halt evaporation. And of course, that's assuming the sun's rays which are now partially blocked by the atmosphere aren't affecting the water to any great degree. But I'm starting to wonder if your forumla is correct so I'm going to submit a slight variation for your approval because it seems to me that you may be leaving out a vital factor.

Shouldn't this; 32 x 0.35/14.7, be corrected to;

32 x 0.35/14.7/(lust in your heart^2) ?

The way you have it set up the atmospheric pressure would stay the same even if you had sinned against God.

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

Okay, I think I understand about the layer of water vapor over the liquid and how that presents enough pressure against the liquid to stop boiling and, more or less, halt evaporation. And of course, that's assuming the sun's rays which are now partially blocked by the atmosphere aren't affecting the water to any great degree. But I'm starting to wonder if your forumla is correct so I'm going to submit a slight variation for your approval because it seems to me that you may be leaving out a vital factor.

Shouldn't this; 32 x 0.35/14.7, be corrected to;

32 x 0.35/14.7/(lust in your heart^2) ?

The way you have it set up the atmospheric pressure would stay the same even if you had sinned against God.

The exponent is yet to be determined, but yes, you are beginning to understand Creation Science.

 

[Beastt]

You mean even John has probably sinned against god, I think I agree, thus we should ignore him as well.

John, can you prove you have not sinned and should not be ignored?

"May we burn 'im?"

Sorry, silly question.​

 

[Loudmouth]

32x1/14.7 = about 2.2 feet. However... thats at 100F. The average temperature of the earth is much lower, about 70F (actually, less that 70, but I am not going to look the number up right now). At that temperature, the water vapor pressure is about 0.35psi. So a more realistic figure would be

32 x 0.35/14.7 or about 0.75 feet. Since there is already considerable water vapor in the air (on average probably something like 75%), the final figure would be about

0.75 x 0.25 = 0.2 feet or about 2 inches. After that had evaporated from the water, all boiling would stop and then it would be just evaporation and condensation. It would be a very different weather system then we have today without the dilluting effects of the air. But, you would probably be able to walk the surface with an oxygen mask on.

(edit: on second thought, no. Oxygen would not be enough. You need to have a sufficient partial pressure of oxygen to survive, a pressure of about 3psi. The 0.35psi environment of our hypothetical water vapor only world would not allow that much oxygen into your lungs, and you would suffocate.)

This assumes that there is enough solar energy to heat up water to 100F at 1 psi. I know that temperature greatly decreases as you increase in altitude. Bombers during WWII experienced extremely low temperatures, even during the hot European summers. It would seem unlikely that anywhere on the Earth could be 100F at just 1 psi atmospheric temperature. What water vapor did enter the atmosphere would quickly freeze and return to the ground.

 

[Beastt]

The exponent is yet to be determined, but yes, you are beginning to understand Creation Science.

Oh goody!

I want to do an experiment. I've got a lump of dust and a bellows. Know where I can get some God's breath?

Wait... do I need lightening for this?

 

[JohnR7]

John, can you prove you have not sinned and should not be ignored?

We will find out at the rapture who will go with Jesus and who will remain behind. Those who are living free from sin can not die.

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

"May we burn 'im?"

Sorry, silly question.​

Depend's on your interpretation of scripture, but I am sure that there are many offenses that he is guilty of that qualify for at least a stoning.