Creationism is responsible for a falling away

[Greg1234]

It is neither a necessity to believe in creationism, nor is it something that our faith should be wrapped up so close to.

If the Creation of man should be given up on request then materialists would have saved alot of energy by just asking. The preliminary Darwinian concert was entirely flattering, but the answer is still no. The same for the request to see faith as evolutionary psychology, and God as ignorance. Concern yourself with providing data for microbe to man phenomena.

Come to terms with the fact that we are but small specs of dust floating in the grand ocean of the universe, here one second gone the next, for all the opposing view is is pride, we cannot truly know who God is if pride clouds who we are.

It's not pride, it's scripture. What does a man's proximity to the outer planets have to do with his proximity to his maker? "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." Ever heard of that? Why should a man replace his birthright with his Inner Fish and converse with beasts on his position in the material universe?

since evolution is such a strong scientific theory.

Define evolution here.

 

[Keachian]

If the Creation of man should be given up on request then materialists would have saved alot of energy by just asking. The preliminary Darwinian concert was entirely flattering, but the answer is still no. The same for the request to see faith as evolutionary psychology, and God as ignorance. Concern yourself with providing data for microbe to man phenomena.

I believe that you are wrong on these points:

• Evolution is not materialist.
• God is not ignorance.

I additionally wonder, whether you are serious in your microbe to man thing as either you are asking for all the intermediary steps which you will throw away because it is never exhaustive, or just the one step which is a fallacy of the nature of the world.

It's not pride, it's scripture. What does a man's proximity to the outer planets have to do with his proximity to his maker? "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." Ever heard of that? Why should a man replace his birthright with his Inner Fish and converse with beasts on his position in the material universe?

It's more his proximity to what the universe was designed to provide. The other thing is that these things do not need to be abandoned with a proper theological understanding of science. I firmly believe that sapience and self-awareness lead to being able to commune with God and that this ability was not something that happened through chance but was something God planned on all along. The God of the Bible is not a deistic God, and while I have so believed that about God in the past, I have continued to study and have come up with the idea that God is all pervasive through the natural world, you cannot separate him from it, he is sovereign over all.

Yes the Kingdom of heaven is at hand, but that is an eschatological statement, it has no bearing on our salvation or even how the universe came to being. I humbly suggest that the idea that the universe was created in six days, six thousand years ago has no bearing on that eschatological statement or even the very fact that God sent his Son that we might have life and have it to the full.

I'm also not aware of an inner fish (other than the one I had last night for dinner) and nor do I claim to be able to converse with beasts, (unless you are making the both scientifically and theologically incorrect statement that non-believers are beasts) I looked to God's word and found out who God was and what he has done, I looked at what he has done and found myself in a place where God is either a liar or the Bible is wrong and there is no God, however 5 years after that I have come to a conclusion that God is neither a liar and neither is the Bible wrong, only my interpretation of it at that time was wrong.

Define evolution here.

The theory of speciation through micro-changes over an extended period of time.

 

[Smidlee]

So many times I have heard it brought up that evolution is causing people to fall away from their faith and from God. I believe that this is not the case and that rather a fallacious mandate that people have made concerning creationism being the only way to interpret the first chapters of Genesis is what is causing this falling away.

Interesting that you are doing the same thing that you claimed about those you disagree with . That is pick to a group that you are not identified with and claiming they are the cause for people falling away. It's always the other guy that's the blame.
This is the opposite of Daniel's pray which identifies himself with the sins of his people.

Evolution itself is a creation story which IMO reads a lot different from Genesis account. Evolution creatonism focus on more on the physical (man as an animal) while Genesis Creationism focus on man as a "living soul".

 

[Keachian]

Interesting that you are doing the same thing that you claimed about those you disagree with . That is pick to a group that you are not identified with and claiming they are the cause for people falling away. It's always the other guy that's the blame.
This is the opposite of Daniel's pray which identifies himself with the sins of his people.

I can see where you're coming from, but I have always wondered what Christianity would look like if the statement that creationism was mandatory for belief in the God of Christianity.

Evolution itself is a creation story which IMO reads a lot different from Genesis account. Evolution creatonism focus on more on the physical (man as an animal) while Genesis Creationism focus on man as a "living soul".

That's the whole point the entirety of Genesis sets up what we need to know in a spiritual sense, God is sovereign, God created everything and especially ourselves in order to have a relationship with him, we are in a fallen state and God has plans on redeeming humanity through the offspring of Abraham.

 

[mark kennedy]

So many times I have heard it brought up that evolution is causing people to fall away from their faith and from God. I believe that this is not the case and that rather a fallacious mandate that people have made concerning creationism being the only way to interpret the first chapters of Genesis is what is causing this falling away.

Genesis is written as an historical narrative. This is the problem, some people believe it and some people don't, it's as simple as that. If you lose your faith it's because you did not receive it from the author and finisher of our faith. Consequently, you are never indwelled with the Holy Spirit of promise. In short, you fall way because of the hardening of your heart, not because of an accurate exposition:

So, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. (Hebrews 3:7-13)​

It is neither a necessity to believe in creationism, nor is it something that our faith should be wrapped up so close to. I have travelled theological so far. I have nearly lost my belief in God too many times to count and for too many reasons to number, it is my experiences with God that continue to shape who I am. This doesn't mean that my faith is purely experiential but rather my experience matches that which I have seen in the Bible.

Creationism is inextricably linked to the resurrection. The same light the burst forth at creation raised Christ from the dead and empowers the believer to walk in newness of life. You don't know the Scriptures and you mockery of Bible believing Christians is shameful.

If we want to continue to say that we have faith in God's word, why do some of us subscribe to cessationism, why do some of us subscribe to pre-tribulation rapture, the whole theological discourse at times stifles what should in essence be an active faith of service, to both our brothers and sisters and to the world. We were not called because God created the world in 6 literal days, we were called because he sent his Son, such that we might not die and find peace in him.

What Christians believe in is the blessed hope, the return of Christ and the redemption of the purchase price. To worship Christ as Savior and Lord is to worship Christ as Creator. The six days of creation are not mutually exclusive with faith in the Son of God, they are both rooted and grounded in the historicity of the Gospel.

In my mind creationism does far more harm to Christianity than it does good, it substitutes the awe and wonder of the Universe and our place in it and our precious relationship with God, for saying of course we are precious to God, he made the universe solely for us. Come to terms with the fact that we are but small specs of dust floating in the grand ocean of the universe, here one second gone the next, for all the opposing view is is pride, we cannot truly know who God is if pride clouds who we are.

In my mind Darwinism has done far greater, irreparable harm by categorically denying the power of God. Why God created us and our place in the cosmos is cause for speculation, nothing more.

No theory behind how genesis fits with creation has in my mind been Theologically true enough that I'm willing to read it as a literal account for how the universe was physically formed. With this weak theology people aren't able to when they truly look into evolution see how to put the two together and so since evolution is such a strong scientific theory their faith dies.

I have studied both, for years, and I have found both the scientific and theological arguments to be deeply flawed and fallacious. If you don't believe the Bible it's because you rejected the light and fled to the darkness, not because Bible believing, believe the Bible as it is written and as it was intended to be read.

Your being absurd.

 

[Assyrian]

Interesting that you are doing the same thing that you claimed about those you disagree with . That is pick to a group that you are not identified with and claiming they are the cause for people falling away. It's always the other guy that's the blame.
This is the opposite of Daniel's pray which identifies himself with the sins of his people.

So you are saying that you and your fellow creationists should take responsibility for people falling away from Christianity?

Evolution itself is a creation story which IMO reads a lot different from Genesis account. Evolution creatonism focus on more on the physical (man as an animal) while Genesis Creationism focus on man as a "living soul".

That's all right, Genesis 2 reads a lot different from the account in Genesis 1.

 

[Smidlee]

So you are saying that you and your fellow creationists should take responsibility for people falling away from Christianity?

Your question is so designed to pick a group that doesn't included you. But yes I do think me and fellow "Christians" should take responsiblity as I believe the scripture clearly state if those of called by His name should repent God will bring revival.

That's all right, Genesis 2 reads a lot different from the account in Genesis 1.

Evolution is even worst . For example this article states we walk upright so we could kill each other. Of course I seriously hope there are not any Christians who support this view but this is an example of evolutionary thinking the totally opposite of biblical (Genesis) teaching.
So we started walk upright because....
1) to stay cooler to have less skin exposed to the sun.
2) to see over the grass
3) to use tools
4) results in more sex
5) to kill each other.

 

[BondiHarry]

That's a convenient excuse.

I would say the religious teaching of an angry, jealous, petty, spiteful god of the bronze age is likely more a reason for sensible people choosing to fall away. Evolution / creationism has nothing to do with people's view of who God is.

Satan is no doubt delighted that sensible people buy into his portrayal of God although how sensible it is to buy into that portrayal is questionable.

 

[Assyrian]

Your question is so designed to pick a group that doesn't included you.

No just showing the implication of what you said.

But yes I do think me and fellow "Christians" should take responsiblity as I believe the scripture clearly state if those of called by His name should repent God will bring revival.

Indeed, unfortunately the problem is realising what we should repent about.

Evolution is even worst . For example this article states we walk upright so we could kill each other. Of course I seriously hope there are not any Christians who support this view but this is an example of evolutionary thinking the totally opposite of biblical (Genesis) teaching.
So we started walk upright because....
1) to stay cooler to have less skin exposed to the sun.
2) to see over the grass
3) to use tools
4) results in more sex
5) to kill each other.

Isn't there a time to kill, and a time to heal... a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing Eccles 3:3-5? didn't

 

[Smidlee]

Isn't there a time to kill, and a time to heal... a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing Eccles 3:3-5? didn't

This is referring to "now" after the fall of man. You also have to be careful quoting from Eccles since he stated he is writing about both wisdom and folly "under the sun".

 

[Greg1234]

I believe that you are wrong on these points:

• Evolution is not materialist.

You would have to define evolution.

God is not ignorance.

Never said that.

I additionally wonder, whether you are serious in your microbe to man thing as either you are asking for all the intermediary steps which you will throw away because it is never exhaustive, or just the one step which is a fallacy of the nature of the world.

There is no need for me to throw in Darwinian intermediaries because the data contradict these intermediaries. Speculations abound but chance cannot take bacteria to man and natural selection does nothing at the molecular stage (where it is seen to count in light of modern scientific discoveries ).

It's more his proximity to what the universe was designed to provide.

The universe doesn't provide man.

The other thing is that these things do not need to be abandoned with a proper theological understanding of science. I firmly believe that sapience and self-awareness lead to being able to commune with God

Microbes cannot develop into God communicating men in the first place.

and that this ability was not something that happened through chance but was something God planned on all along.

Data shows otherwise. So does text.

The God of the Bible is not a deistic God,

Man being created by God came first. Any term attached to that came after the process. Hence, you can choose anyone you want to represent that, get past it, and attend to the task at hand.

and while I have so believed that about God in the past, I have continued to study and have come up with the idea that God is all pervasive through the natural world, you cannot separate him from it, he is sovereign over all.

In stages and classes of life. Variety preceded matter and matter as a shadow obeys that variety.

Yes the Kingdom of heaven is at hand, but that is an eschatological statement, it has no bearing on our salvation or even how the universe came to being.

Actually, it has everything to do with salvation. It also delves into the nature of man as a whole and ultimately his creation which in turn determines his nature. You're just preaching Darwinism here.

I humbly suggest that the idea that the universe was created in six days,

Irrelevant

six thousand years ago

Irrelevant

has no bearing on that eschatological statement or even the very fact that God sent his Son that we might have life and have it to the full.

You were the one who brought it up.

The theory of speciation through micro-changes over an extended period of time.

This doesn't say anything. A speciation can occur through the degeneration of microbes, and as previously explained above, the modern view of micro-changes over time does not imply microbe to man phenomena but rejects it.