• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Creation scientists - do they exist?

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,142
Visit site
✟98,015.00
Faith
Agnostic
Because when a claim that supports evolution also supports creation, it can't be regarded as proof of one theory over the other.

What wouldn't support creationism? What features would a fossil need in order to falsify creationism? What genetic marker shared by humans and chimps would falsify creationism? What features in a geologic formation would falsify creationism?

It would seem that creationism is a dogmatic belief, not a scientific theory.
 
Upvote 0

Astrophile

Newbie
Aug 30, 2013
2,338
1,559
77
England
✟256,526.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Widowed
I wonder what they are afraid of? Could it be that if children were allowed to hear the other side of the argument, they might start to question the evolutionary indoctrination that currently takes place?

I wasn't taught much about evolution at school, and certainly wasn't indoctrinated with it; I learnt about it from books that I borrowed from the public library.

When I fell in with a group of creationists during my late 20s, and, as you say, 'heard the other side of the argument', I studied both sides. As a result, I became convinced that creationism is nonsense, on the same level as UFOlogy, pyramidology and astrology. As for evolution, obviously, like all scientific theories it is subject to change, but I should be very surprised if it turned out to be entirely wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
78
✟8,968.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Evolutionary indoctrination, NotByChance? Oh, c'mon. That is precisely the problem I have with creation-science proponents. When they can't find a solid rebuttal to your arguments, they resort to personal attacks and casting dispersion on your character. I, too, received very little instruction on evolution, until I went to college. So don't give me this "indoctrination" nonsense. In that you resort to such terms, that sends a big red flag up that you yourself have had very little education on evolution and how science operates. Obviously, you have had very little experience in the world of academia. So let me clue you in. Academia functions on a kind of legalistic model. Everyone is to act like an attorney making a case and taking it to court. If you publish a book or paper, the first thing everyone does is go for the jugular vein, focus on what's wrong with your case, and how to demolish it. In this hypercritic al analytical world, you better know you stuff, have a solid case, or you perish very quickly. Hence, any generally accept4ed concept or theory in science had to fist pass through a huge number of challenges and be actually overly defended. That being the case, evolution is not indoctrination; it is there because it rests on an enormous body of evidence.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
What wouldn't support creationism? What features would a fossil need in order to falsify creationism? What genetic marker shared by humans and chimps would falsify creationism? What features in a geologic formation would falsify creationism?

It would seem that creationism is a dogmatic belief, not a scientific theory.


All they need to do to lift creationism out of dogma is to find one reasonable test that would show creationism to be wrong. The problem with that is that reasonable tests tend to show that creationism is wrong. That is why creationists will not submit a reasonable test.
 
Upvote 0

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Site Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,295
California
✟1,024,756.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
The scientists of project Steve are quite real and quite sincere. It's purpose is to (in humorous way) demonstrate how trivial the illusion of a growing support for creationism is.

Precisely.

You are citing a parody from an openly hostile, anti-creationist organization. So, well, that doesn't really mean much to this excellent thread.

The Clergy Letter Project was initiated in 2004 as a response to the common misperception that science and religion are inevitably in conflict, especially around the question of evolution, and has been officially endorsed by several prominent Christian denominations. Within two weeks nearly 200 clergy from a variety of Christian denominations had signed the letter, and today there are over 14,000 signatures. They also organize the annual Evolution Weekend that takes place in mid-February.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerman/evolution-weekend-an-exam_b_9206764.html

Over 14,000 clergy members from all corners of the United States have signed one of our four Clergy Letters promoting the teaching of evolution in public school science classrooms and laboratories as a "core component of human knowledge."

Thousands upon thousands of Christian clergy members, from Baptists to Quakers and from Methodists to Episcopalians, Lutherans, Roman Catholics and many more, have stated as clearly as possible that their religion and modern biology, including evolution, are fully compatible. They have been joined in this movement by Buddhist, Jewish and Unitarian Universalist clergy. These men and women of faith have come together, despite their theological differences, to embrace the knowledge and wisdom that humans have discovered over the years. And they have done so in a manner that is fully respectful of their religious diversity. Indeed, they welcome meaningful discussion and treasure learning about their differences.

Discussion, dialogue and discourse are so central to members of The Clergy Letter Project that each year on the anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin, hundreds of religious congregations all around the globe celebrate Evolution Weekend. The purpose of this annual celebration is to move beyond sound bites and to delve deeply into a complicated, contentious topic.
 
Upvote 0

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Site Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,295
California
✟1,024,756.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Maybe they're afraid of kids growing up to be like some of the posters on this forum who waste an absurd amount of time arguing the earth is flat, the universe is 6000 yrs old, giants are real & there were dinos on Noah's Ark, in addition to getting pretty much all the facts wrong on evolution.

That's definitely a valid fear, and it's one that impacts society as a whole in addition to the individual children and their future selves; scientific literacy is critical. As an example, there is a commonality between creationism and opposition to vaccination.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Precisely.



The Clergy Letter Project was initiated in 2004 as a response to the common misperception that science and religion are inevitably in conflict, especially around the question of evolution, and has been officially endorsed by several prominent Christian denominations. Within two weeks nearly 200 clergy from a variety of Christian denominations had signed the letter, and today there are over 14,000 signatures. They also organize the annual Evolution Weekend that takes place in mid-February.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerman/evolution-weekend-an-exam_b_9206764.html
When I first read your post I thought that you made an error by incorrectly referring to the clergy project:

http://clergyproject.org/

That is actually a quite different group than the one that you linked. But you might want to check out biologos:

http://biologos.org/

This is a group of scientists that accept science and Christianity.
 
Upvote 0

Jfrsmth

Active Member
Aug 13, 2015
363
51
Philippines
✟16,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The Clergy Letter Project was initiated in 2004 as a response to the common misperception that science and religion are inevitably in conflict, especially around the question of evolution, and has been officially endorsed by several prominent Christian denominations. Within two weeks nearly 200 clergy from a variety of Christian denominations had signed the letter, and today there are over 14,000 signatures. They also organize the annual Evolution Weekend that takes place in mid-February.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerman/evolution-weekend-an-exam_b_9206764.html

Numbers do not make something accurate.
 
Upvote 0

Shemjaza

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2006
6,458
3,996
47
✟1,114,368.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
Numbers do not make something accurate.
Okay. Is it fair to assume you will never again post a list of creationist scientists or stats about theists in the community?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Butterfly99
Upvote 0

Jfrsmth

Active Member
Aug 13, 2015
363
51
Philippines
✟16,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Okay. Is it fair to assume you will never again post a list of creationist scientists or stats about theists in the community?

Is it fair to assume that you will look at the evidence as opposed to the numbers who agree or disagree?
 
Upvote 0

Jfrsmth

Active Member
Aug 13, 2015
363
51
Philippines
✟16,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That figure is extremely depressing. It means exactly one thing: that we need to do a much better job in science education. It doesn't mean that science suddenly becomes a rote "majority rules" exercise in the democratic shredding of the ivory tower.

Wait, I'm sorry, didn't you just get done with saying that 90% of the public wanted creation to be taught in schools? Apparently Matthew 7:13 only applies to people with an education. This is in fairly blatant contradiction to your previous point.

How does it contradict?

Apples and oranges:

Apples: "I" did not say it. It was a research on what the public wants and I gave a reference.
Oranges: The numbers reflect evolutionist and creationist scientists.

Matthew 7:13 is for everyone who has ears to hear.
 
Upvote 0

Jfrsmth

Active Member
Aug 13, 2015
363
51
Philippines
✟16,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
"...overtly pro-globe and anti-flat-earth"

So, how can they be non-biased?

That's what you sound like. That's how wrong your statement is. These organizations are "anti-creationism" because creationism is not science, and indeed, the creationist movement exists almost entirely to attempt to tear down modern scientific progress and replace it with religious dogma. These are scientific organizations; their purpose is to understand and spread understanding of science, and as such, groups like AiG are the largest hindrance. There's no two ways about this. These groups have become anti-creationist because they recognize the threat to public education posed by religious zealots who don't understand evolution and want to protect their kids from understanding it. Complaining about bias when a scientific organization props up a well-established scientific theory and rejects an unfalsifiable religious dogma that runs directly against essentially everything we've observed in the past 150 years is absurd. You might as well be complaining that NASA doesn't respect the verse about the corners of the earth, like @mike van wyk over in that other thread.

And round and round we go. . . .
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
We're not talking about the theory of evolution. Someone earlier in the thread claimed that life had been created from non-living chemicals and that there was proof of it. I want to see such proof.
Sorry about the wait on some abiogenesis sources, my internet at home was unstable. Luckily, someone compiled a list of many sources on the subject, going across roughly 50 years. I recommend looking more into the recent ones than the old ones, but I thought I would post the whole thing rather than leaving them out. They aren't links, but googling the authors and title of the articles together should be sufficient to find them.

Theoretical Study On The Formation Of The Amino Acid Glycine And Its Isomer In Extraterrestrial Icesby Philip D. Holtom, Chris J. Bennett, Yoshihiro Osamura, Nigel J Mason and Ralf. I Kaiser, The Astrophysical Journal, 626: 940-952 (20th June 2005)

A Production Of Amino Acids Under Possible Primitive Earth Conditions by Stanley L. Miller, Science, 117: 528-529 (15th May 1953)

A Rigorous Attempt To Verify Interstellar Glycine by I. E. Snyder, F. J. Lovas, J. M. Hollis, D. N. Friedel, P. R. Jewell, A. Remijan, V. V. Ilyushin, E. A. Alekseev and S. F. Dyubko, The Astrophysical Journal, 619(2): 914-930 (1st February 2005) {Also available at arXiv.org]

A Self-Replicating Ligase Ribozyme by Natasha Paul & Gerald F. Joyce, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA., 99(20): 12733-12740 (1st October 2002)

A Self-Replicating System by T. Tjivuka, P. Ballester and J. Rebek Jr, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 112: 1249-1250 (1990)

Activated Acetic Acid By Carbon Fixation On (Fe,Ni)S Under Primordial Conditions by Claudia Huber and Günter Wächetershäuser, Science, 276: 245-247 (11th April 1997)

An Asymmetric Underlying Rule In The Assignment Of Codons: Possible Clue To A Quick Early Evolution Of The Genetic Code Via Successive Binary Choices by Marc Delarue, The RNA Journal, 13(2): 161-169 (12th December 2006)

Attempted Prebiotic Synthesis Of Pseudouridine by Jason P. Dworkin, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 27: 345-355 (1997)

Carbonyl Sulphide-Mediated Prebiotic Formation Of Peptides by Luke Leman, Leslie Orgel and M. Reza Ghadiri, Science, 306: 283-286 (8th October 2004)

Catalysis In Prebiotic Chemistry: Application To The Synthesis Of RNA Oligomers by James P. Ferris, Prakash C. Joshi, K-J Wang, S. Miyakawa and W. Huang, Advances in Space Research, 33: 100-105 (2004)

11-20:

Cations As Mediators Of The Adsorption Of Nucleic Acids On Clay Surfaces In Prebiotic Environments by Marco Franchi, James P. Ferris and Enzo Gallori, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 33: 1-16 (2003)

Chemistry for the Synthesis of Nucleobase-Modified Peptide Nucleic Acid by R. H. E. Hudson, R. D. Viirre, Y. H. Liu, F. Wojciechowski and A. K. Dambenieks, Pure Appl. Chem., 76(7-8)1591-1598, 2004

Coevolution Of Compositional Protocells And Their Environment by Barak Shenhav, Aia Oz and Doron Lancet, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 362: 1813-1819 (9th May 2007)

Computational Models For The Formation Of Protocell Structures by Linglan Edwards, Yun Peng and James A. Reggia, Artificial Life, 4(1): 61-77 (1998)

Conditions For The Emergence Of Life On The Early Earth: Summary And Reflections by Joshua Jortner, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1877-1891 (11th September 2006)

Coupled Growth And Division Of Model Protocell Membranes by Ting F. Zhu and Jack W. Szostak, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 131:5705-5713 (2009)

Darwinian Evolution On A Chip by Brian M. Paegel and Gerald F. Joyce, Public Library of Science Biology, 6(4): e85 (April 2008)

Early Anaerobic Metabolisms by Don E Canfield, Minik T Rosing and Christian Bjerrum, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1819-1836 (11th September 2006)

Emergence Of A Replicating Species From An In Vitro RNA Evolution Reaction by Ronald R. Breaker and Gerald F. Joyce, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 91:6093-6097 (June 1994)

Evolution And Self-Assembly Of Protocells by Ricard V. Solé, The International Journal of Biochemistry & Cell Biology, 41: 274-284 (2009)

21-30:

Evolution Of Amino Acid Frequencies In Proteins Over Deep Time: Inferred Order Of Introduction Of Amino Acids Into The Genetic Codeby Dawn J. Brooks, Jacques R. Fresco, Arthur M. Lesk and Mona Singh, Molecular and Biological Evolution, 19(10): 1645-1655 (2002)

Formation Of Bimolecular Membranes From Lipid Monolayers And A Study Of Their Electrical Properties by M. Montal and P. Mueller, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 69(12):3561-3566 (December 1972)

Formation Of Protocell-Like Structures From Glycine And Formaldehyde In A Modified Sea Medium by Hiroshi Yanagawa and Fujio Egami, Proceedings of the Japan Academy, 53: 42-45 (12th January 1977)

Formation Of Protocell-Like Vesicles In A Thermal Diffusion Column by Itay Budin, Raphael J. Bruckner and Jack W. Szostak, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 131:9628-9629 (2009)

Generic Darwinian Selection In Catalytic Protocell Assemblies by Andreea Munteanu, Camille Stephan-Otto Attolini, Steen Rasmussen, Hans Ziock and Ricard V. Solé, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 362: 1847-1855 (2007)

Homochiral Selection In The Montmorillonite-Catalysed And Uncatalysed Prebiotic Synthesis Of RNA by Prakash C. Joshi, Stefan Pitsch and James P. Ferris, Chemical Communications (Royal Society of Chemistry), 2497-2498 (2000) [DOI: 10.1039/b007444f]

Hyperthermophiles In The History Of Life by Karl O. Stetter, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1837-1843 (11th September 2006)

Implications Of A 3.472-3.333?GYr-Old Subaerial Microbal Mat From The Barberton Greenstone Belt, South Africa, For The UV Environmental Conditions Of The Early Earth by Frances Westall, Cornel E.J de Ronde, Gordon Southam, Nathalie Grassineau, Maggy Colas, Charles Cockell and Helmut Lammer, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1857-1876 (11th September 2006)

Information Transfer From Peptide Nucleic Acids To RNA By Template-Directed Syntheses by Jürgen G. Schmidt, Peter E. Nielsen and Leslie E. Orgel, Nucleic Acids Research, 25(23):4794-4802 (1997)

Interstellar Glycine by Yi-Jehng Kuan, Steven B. Charnley, Hui-Chun Huang, Wei-Ling Tseng, and Zbigniew Kisiel, The Astrophysical Journal, 593: 848-867 (20th August 2003)

31-40:

Kin Selection And Virulence In The Evolution Of Protocells And Parasites by Steven A. Frank, Proceedings of the Royal Society of London Part B, 258: 153-161 (1994)

Ligation Of The Hairpin Ribozyme In cis Induced By Freezing And Dehydration by Sergei A. Kazakov, Svetlana V. Balatskaya and Brian H. Johnston, The RNA Journal, 12: 446-456 (2006)

Lipid Bilayer Fibres From Diastereomeric And Enantiomeric N-Octylaldonamides by Jürgen-Hinrich Fuhrhop, Peter Schneider, Egbert Boekema and Wolfgang Helfrich, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 110:2861-2867 (1988)

"Living" Under The Challenge Of Information Decay: The Stochastic Corrector Model Versus Hypercycles by Elias Zintzaras, Mauro Santos and Eörs Szathmáry, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 217: 167-181 (2002)

Mineral Catalysis And Prebiotic Synthesis: Montmorillonite-Catalysed Formation Of RNA by James P. Ferris, Elements, 1: 145-149 (June 2005)

Molecular Asymmetry In Extraterrestrial Chemistry: Insights From A Pristine Meteorite by Sandra Pizzarello, Yongsong Huang and Marcelo R. Alexandre, Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 105(10):3700-3704 (11th March 2008)

Molecular Dynamics Simulation Of The Formation, Structure, And Dynamics Of Small Phospholipid Vesicles by Siewert J. Marrink and Alan E. Mark, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 125: 15233-15242 (2003)

Montmorillonite Catalysis Of 30-50 Mer Oligonucleotides: Laboratory Demonstration Of Potential Steps In The Origin Of The RNA Worldby James P. Ferris, Origins of Life and Evolution of the biosphere, 32: 311-332 (2002)

Montmorillonite Catalysis Of RNA Oligomer Formation In Aqueous Solution: A Model For The Prebiotic Formation Of RNA by James P. Ferris and Gözen Ertem, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 115: 12270-12275 (1993)

Nucelotide Synthetase Ribozymes May Have Emerged First In The RNA World by Wentao Ma, Chunwu Yu, Wentao Zhang and Jiming Hu, The RNA Journal, 13: 2012-2019, 18th September 2007

41-50:

Nutrient Uptake By Protocells: A Liposome Model System by Pierre-Alain Monnard and David W. Deamer, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 31: 147-155 (2001)

Organic Compounds In Carbonaceous Meteorites by Mark A. Sephton, Natural Products Reports (Royal Society of Chemistry), 19: 292-311 (2002)

Peptide Nucleic Acids Rather Than RNA May Have Been The First Genetic Molecule by Kevin E. Nelson, Matthew Levy and Stanley L. Miller, Proc. Natl, Acad. Sci. USA., 97(8):3868-3871, 11th April 2000

Peptides By Activation Of Amino Acids With CO On (Ni,Fe)S Surfaces: Implications For The Origin Of Life by Claudia Huber and Günter Wächtershäuser, Science, 281: 670-672 (31st July 1998)

Phenotypic Diversity And Chaos In A Minimal Cell Model by Andreea Munteanu and Ricard V. Solé, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 240:434-442 (2006)

Prebiotic Amino Acids As Asymmetric Catalysts by Sandra Pizzarello and Arthur L. Weber, Science, 303: 1151 (20 February 2004)

Prebiotic Chemistry And The Origin Of The RNA World by Leslie E. Orgel, Critical Reviews in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 39:99-123 (2004)

Prebiotic Materials From On And Off The Early Earth by Max Bernstein, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361:1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

Prebiotic Synthesis On Minerals: Bridging The Prebiotic And RNA Worlds by James P. Ferris, Biological Bulletin, 196: 311-314 (June 1999)

Racemic Amino Acids From The Ultraviolet Photolysis Of Interstellar Ice Analogues by Max P. Bernstein, Jason P. Dworkin, Scott A. Sandford, George W. Copoper and Louis J. Allamandola, Nature, 416: 401-403

51-60:

Replicating Vesicles As Models Of Primitive Cell Growth And Division by Martin M. Hanczyc and Jack W. Szostak, Current Opinion In Chemical Biology, 8: 660-664 (22nd October 2004)

Ribozymes: Building The RNA World by Gerald F. Joyce, Current Biology, 6(8): 965-967, 1996

RNA Catalysis In Model Protocell Vesicles by Irene A Chen, Kourosh Salehi-Ashtiani and Jack W Szostak, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 127: 13213-13219 (2005)

RNA-Catalysed Nucleotide Synthesis by Peter J. Unrau and David P. Bartel, Nature, 395: 260-263 (17th September 1998)

RNA-Catalyzed RNA Polymerization: Accurate and General RNA-Templated Primer Extension by Wendy K. Johnston, Peter J. Unrau, Michael S. Lawrence, Margaret E. Glasner and David P. Bartel, Science, 292: 1319-1325, 18th May 2001

RNA-Directed Amino Acid Homochirality by J. Martyn Bailey, FASEB Journal (Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology), 12: 503-507 (1998)

RNA Evolution And The Origin Of Life by Gerald F. Joyce, Nature, 338: 217-224 (16th March 1989)

Self Replicating Systems by Volker Patzke and Günter von Kiedrowski, ARKIVOC5: 293-310, 2007

Self-Assembling Amphiphilic Molecules Synthesis In Simulated Interstellar/Precometary Ices by Jason P. Dworkin, David W. Deamer, Scott A. Sandford and Louis J. Allamandola, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 98(3): 815-819 (30th January 2001)

Self-Assembly Of Surfactant-Like Peptides With Variable Glycine Tails To Form Nanotubes And Nanovesicles by Steve Santoso, Wonmuk Hwang, Hyman Hartman and Shuguang Zhang, Nano Letters, 2(7): 687-691 (2002)

61-70:

Self-Assembly Processes In The Prebiotic Environment by David Deamer, Sara Singaram, Sudha Rajamani, Vladimir Kompanichenko and Stephen Guggenheim, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

Self-Organising Biochemical Cycles by Leslie E. Orgel, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 97(23): 12503-12507 (7th November 2000)

Self-Sustained Replication Of An RNA Enzyme by Tracey A. Lincoln and Gerald F. Joyce, ScienceExpress, DOI: 10.1126/science.1167856 (8th January 2009)

Sequence- And Regio-Selectivity In The Montmorillonite-Catalysed Synthesis Of RNA by Gözen Ertem and James P. Ferris, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 30: 411-422 (2000)

Simulation Of The Spontaneous Aggregation Of Phospholipids Into Bilayers by Siewert J. Marrink, Eric Lindahl, Olle Edholm and Alan E. Mark, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 123:8638-8639 (2001)

Synchronisation Phenomena In Internal Reaction Models Of Protocells by Roberto Serra, Timoteo Carletti, Alessandro Filisetti and Irene Poli, Artificial life, 13: 123-128 (2007)

Synchronisation Phenomena In Protocell Models by Alessandro Filisetti, Roberto Serra, Timoteo Carletti, Irene Poli and Marco Villani, Biophysical Reviews and Letters, 3(1-2): 325-342 (2008)

Synthesis Of 35-40 Mers Of RNA Oligomers From Unblocked Monomers. A Simple Approach To The RNA World by Wenhua Huang and James P. Ferris, Chemical Communications of the Royal Society of Chemistry, 1458-1459 (2003)

Synthesis Of Long Prebiotic Oligomers On Mineral Surfaces by James P. Ferris, Aubrey R. Hill Jr, Rihe Liu and Leslie E. Orgel, Nature, 381: 59-61 (2nd May 1996)

Synthesising Life by Jack W. Szostak, David P. Bartel and P. Luigi Luisi, Nature, 409: 387-390 (18th January 2001)

71-80:

Synthetic Protocell Biology: From Reproduction To Computation by Ricard V. Solé, Andreea Munteanu, Carlos Rodriguez-Caso and Javier Macia, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 362: 1727-1739 (October 2007)

Template-Directed Synthesis Of A Genetic Polymer In A Model Protocell by Sheref S. Mansy, Jason P. Schrum, Mathangi Krisnamurthy, Sylvia Tobé, Douglas A. Treco and Jack W. Szostak, Nature, 454: 122-125 (4th June 2008)

The Antiquity Of RNA-Based Evolution by Gerald F. Joyce, Nature, 418: 214-221, 11th July 2002

The Case For An Ancestral Genetic System Involving Simple Analogues Of The Nucleotides by Gerald F. Joyce, Alan W. Schwartz, Stanley L. Miller and Leslie E. Orgel, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 84:4398-4402 (July 1987)

The Descent of Polymerisation by Matthew Levy and Andrew D. Ellington, Nature Structural Biology, 8(7): 580-582, July 2001

The Emergence Of Competition Between Model Protocells by Irene A Chen, Richard W. Roberts and Jack W. Szostak, Science, 305:1474-1476 (3rd September 2004)

The Generality Of DNA-Templated Synthesis As A Basis For Evolving Non-Natural Small Molecules by Zev J. Gartner and David R. Liu, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 123:6961-6963 (2001)

The Lifetimes Of Nitriles (CN) And Acids (COOH) During Ultraviolet Photolysis And Their Survival In Space by Max P. Bernstein, Samantha F. M. Ashbourne, Scott A. Sandford and Louis J. Allamandola, The Astrophysical Journal, 601: 3650270 (20th January 2004)

The Lipid World by Daniel Segré, Dafna Ben-Eli, David W. Deamer and Doron Lancet, Origins of Life And Evolution of the Biosphere, 31:119-145, 2001

The Miller Volcanic Spark Discharge Experiment by Adam P. Johnson, H. James Cleaves., Jason D. Dworkin, Daniel P. Glavin, Antonio Lazcano and Jeffrey L. Bada, Science, 322: 404 (17th October 2008)

81-90 (ending at 88):

The Origin And Early Evolution Of Life: Prebiotic Chemistry, The Pre-RNA World, And Time by Antonio Laczano and Stanley R. Miller, Cell, 85: 793-798 (14th June 1996)

The Origin Of Replicators And Reproducers by Eörs Szathmáry, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

The Prebiotic Molecules Observed In The Interstellar Gas by P. Thaddeus, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361:1689-1702 (7th September 2006)

The Roads To And From The RNA World by Jason P. Dworkin, Antonio Lazcano and Stanley L. Miller, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 222: 127-134 (2003)

Thermostability Of Model Protocell Membranes by Sheref S. Mansy and Jack W. Szostak, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 105(36): 13351-13355 (9th September 2008)

Toward Synthesis Of A Minimal Cell by Anthony C. Forster and George M. Church, Molecular Systems Biology (2006) doi:10.1038/msb4100090

Transcription And Translation In An RNA World by William R. Taylor, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

Two Step Potentially Prebiotic Synthesis Of α-D-Cystidine-5'-Phosphate From D-Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate by Carole Anastasi, Michael A. Crowe and John D. Sutherland, Journal of the American Chemical Society (Communications), 129: 24-24 (2007)
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,142
Visit site
✟98,015.00
Faith
Agnostic
Is it fair to assume that you will look at the evidence as opposed to the numbers who agree or disagree?

It is fair to say that creationist organizations have already stated that they ignore evidence if it contradicts their religious beliefs. Are you the same?

"By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record."--Answers in Genesis
https://answersingenesis.org/about/faith/
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
I wonder what they are afraid of? Could it be that if children were allowed to hear the other side of the argument, they might start to question the evolutionary indoctrination that currently takes place?
I have never seen evolution taught at young enough ages that it could have the effect of indoctrination. In religious communities or countries with a high population of religious people, exposure to the culture around you will usually expose children to creationist concepts before even the very basics of evolution ones.
 
Upvote 0

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Site Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,295
California
✟1,024,756.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Numbers do not make something accurate.

Of course not. It's the abundance of evidence that substantiates the accuracy of the Theory of Evolution. Your choice to dismiss or manipulate that evidence does not undermine it. I do think the fact a multitude of Christian theologians who have thoroughly and carefully studied Scriptures also support TOE and view science and their faith as harmonious is significant.
 
Upvote 0

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Site Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,295
California
✟1,024,756.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
When I first read your post I thought that you made an error by incorrectly referring to the clergy project:

http://clergyproject.org/

That is actually a quite different group than the one that you linked. But you might want to check out biologos:

http://biologos.org/

This is a group of scientists that accept science and Christianity.

Yes, the Clergy Project and the Clergy Letter Project have very similar names but are distinctive. I'm very familiar with BioLogos and have discussed it quite a bit on here, but I thank you nevertheless for posting the link for the benefit of others who might not be aware of it yet. Yes, there are many Christians who accept Christ through faith and evolution as scientific fact through substantial evidence.
 
Upvote 0

Jfrsmth

Active Member
Aug 13, 2015
363
51
Philippines
✟16,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Of course not. It's the abundance of evidence that substantiates the accuracy of the Theory of Evolution. Your choice to dismiss or manipulate that evidence does not undermine it. I do think the fact a multitude of Christian theologians who have thoroughly and carefully studied Scriptures also support TOE and view science and their faith as harmonious is significant.

What it indicates to me Stanfordella, is that the apparent majority of these "theologians" can and are reading into the plain reading of Scripture in order to accommodate evolutionary science, in contradiction to exegetical practices of extracting meaning from the text. However, that is another thread. This thread is a celebration of creation scientists, and it appears that, that irritates a lot of people, based on the amount of negativity its getting.

Furthermore, it is NOT only my choice, but a number of creation scientists who have been of great blessing in helping me enjoy the glory of the Lord as plainly revealed in His Word. You just don't seem to like it.

By the way, what evidence are they "manipulating"? What are those instances where YECs are guilty of manipulating the evidence? Please share.

If you want to throw accusations around, we could simply come up some against evolution as well:

Haeckel's embryo fraud
Piltdown man fraud
Nebraska man from a pig's tooth
... to name only a few

https://evolutionisntscience.wordpress.com/evolution-frauds/

In fact, there are entire books devoted to the subject of poor, bad, weak, or even false science from evolutionary science:

The Darwinian Delusion: The Scientific Myth of Evolutionism (Michael Ebifegha)
EVOLUTION: A Grand Monument to Human Stupidity (Daniel Jappah)
Bones of Contention: A Creationist Assessment of Human Fossils (Marvin Lubenow)
Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth (Jonathan Wells)
... to name only a few

In fact, if you want to argue evolutionary theory, these authors and or websites might be people you could try and make your case with. But, based on my own observations from the Bible and from creation scientists, they are right on. So, there is no sense bashing me about it. They make very good points.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Not_By_Chance
Upvote 0