Creation Science

[DogmaHunter]

He is a Creationist no matter if you reject the term or not. Even Theistic Evolution is Creationism.

In that sense, a deist is also a creationst by saying "some godlike thing kickstarted the big bang and then disappeared and never returned".

But that's just a dishonest statement. Since everybody knows that that is not what is being meant by "creationism". That's not even what the "intelligent design" folks are about.

Off hand I can not remember what he says about yec. There is nothing wrong with Bishop Usshers book. It is just as valid today as it was when he wrote it back in the 1600s.

It never was a valid anything.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You have an interesting and fairly non-standard definition of creationism. It is not what is being discussed in this thread.

Some people have a narrow view and others look at all that is involved. There are only 1500 Hebrew words to work with when we study the Books of Moses in the Bible. So we need to look at all the meaning of those words. A narrow minded understanding of the Bible simply is not going to work. Esp now when we have a lot more information to work with. Evolutionists want to control the dictionary and the meaning of words, but they simply do not have the ability to restrict the meaning to their definition.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Some people have a narrow view and others look at all that is involved. There are only 1500 Hebrew words to work with when we study the Books of Moses in the Bible. So we need to look at all the meaning of those words.

Or.......
We can just leave the riddles of bronze aged stories behind us and simply directly study reality, instead of assuming that people 2500 years ago had any kind of clue whatsoever.

 

[joshua 1 9]

In that sense, a deist is also a creationst by saying "some godlike thing kickstarted the big bang and then disappeared and never returned".

If you want to consider deism creationism that is fine. Although you want to control the meaning of Deism. Deism still accepts natural law as having been created by God. That means people will sow what they reap and there are consequences to what we do in life. As they say on the streets what goes around comes around. The way you treat others is the way your going to be treated. If you do good you will receive good in return, if you do evil then expect evil to come back to you.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Or.......
We can just leave the riddles of bronze aged stories behind us and simply directly study reality, instead of assuming that people 2500 years ago had any kind of clue whatsoever.

Why, do you really think people have changed all the much in the last 2500 years? Human nature is still pretty much the same. No matter how advanced or primitive they are. We all enter into this world not knowing anything. We have to learn everything. Some people simply have more opportunity to learn. In American children cry out because they are forced to go to school. In some countries children cry because there is no money to pay for them to get an education.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Science is not history.

A lot of history is based on the artifacts that Science provides for us to examine. Also there is Earth History based on the natural record that God has preserved for us to examine. He appears to be very selective in what He preserves for us.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Theistic evolutionists are not creationists. Being a creationist requires a rejection of the theory of evolution. Collins accepts the theory of evolution.

Are you yet another person whose arguments requires words to mean their exact opposite?

Theistic Evolutionists ARE Creationists. They are not YEC Young Earth Creationists, they are TE's. There is also GAP which stands for gap. There are OEC, Old Earth Creationists. This is the most difficult to try to get the ages of the Earth to line up with the 7 days in Genesis. Sometimes they call this Day Age Creationism. The funny thing is they are all true. It is the provincial story of the blind people looking at the elephant and coming up with a different story of what they are observing.

I just ran across an old book written by Kurt Wise. That is a interesting example of someone that is trained to be OEC and yet he wants to attend a YEC Church. Wise who has a Phd in Geology from Harvard, studied under Stephen Jay Gould. Wise is considered "a less propaganda-oriented creationist" Everyone has their own story and their own conclusions. Wise and Collins and all the rest of them are ALL Creationists. They all come to the conclusion that there is a God that Created the Universe we live in. Even Einstein was a Creationist, even if he tended toward Deism.

Remember Science is Agnostic, Science can not make a determination one way or the other if there is a God or not. Although they can prove that there is considerable value to having a belief in God. The atheist tries to hijack Science and hijack the dictionary to serve their own purpose and agenda.

 

[DogmaHunter]

If you want to consider deism creationism that is fine.

I don't. I was pointing out that the way YOU defined "creationism", it would also apply to deists.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Why, do you really think people have changed all the much in the last 2500 years?

I dare to say that perhaps today, we know more about the universe then 2500 years ago. Wouldn't you?

If you wish to learn about the world, the universe, nature... today, it's quite stupid to grab a source from 2500 years ago.

 

[The Cadet]

Some people have a narrow view and others look at all that is involved. [...] Evolutionists want to control the dictionary and the meaning of words, but they simply do not have the ability to restrict the meaning to their definition.

No, that's not what's going on here. The first post is using the term "creationist" to mean something very specific and you are trying to apply it to something else. When we say "creationist" we explicitly mean a certain thing. Please recognize that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No, that's not what's going on here. The first post is using the term "creationist" to mean something very specific and you are trying to apply it to something else. When we say "creationist" we explicitly mean a certain thing. Please recognize that.

Then use the right term. Creationist means all Creationists including Theistic Evolutionists. If you are talking about YEC then use the term Young Earth Creationists. If you want to confuse the language then your only going to fail to make your point.

 

[Loudmouth]

Some people have a narrow view and others look at all that is involved. There are only 1500 Hebrew words to work with when we study the Books of Moses in the Bible. So we need to look at all the meaning of those words. A narrow minded understanding of the Bible simply is not going to work. Esp now when we have a lot more information to work with. Evolutionists want to control the dictionary and the meaning of words, but they simply do not have the ability to restrict the meaning to their definition.

Just as long as you admit that you are using a personal definition that is not found in the dictionary. If your argument requires you to change the meaning of words, then you don't have much of an argument.

 

[Loudmouth]

Then use the right term. Creationist means all Creationists including Theistic Evolutionists.

This is the definition from Merriam-Webster:

"a doctrine or theory holding that matter, the various forms of life, and the world were created by God out of nothing and usually in the way described in Genesis "

That excludes Theistic Evolution.

Did you read about how creationists misrepresent evolution and the facts? Your posts are yet another example.

 

[bhsmte]

Then use the right term. Creationist means all Creationists including Theistic Evolutionists. If you are talking about YEC then use the term Young Earth Creationists. If you want to confuse the language then your only going to fail to make your point.

You are the one confusing the terminology.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I dare to say that perhaps today, we know more about the universe then 2500 years ago. Wouldn't you?

We know more then we did 100 years ago and parts of the world are just now starting to catch up. Until we offered them a cell phone they were not all that much interested.

If you wish to learn about the world, the universe, nature... today, it's quite stupid to grab a source from 2500 years ago.

The question is what application does a 2500 year old teaching have for us today.

Psalm 102:18 "This will be written for the generation to come, That a people yet to be created may praise the LORD."
Romans15:4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

David is aware that he is writting for a future generation. So 3,000 years ago, he knew he was talking to us today. Paul says this was written for our instruction. So does that boggle your mind that someone 3,000 years ago is talking to you today and trying to instruct you in the way of righteousness? Why is it so difficult for you to understand that I know David and David knows me. Even though we have not yet met in person but someday we will. It was the 119 psalm where David really opened my understanding. When David talks about his love for the law and the ordinances of God. They were given to guide us and teach us, also to preserve and keep us strong and healthy.

psalm 119:97 "Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long."

Prov3 "7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and turn away from evil. 8 It will be healing to your body And strength to your bones."

 

[joshua 1 9]

This is the definition from Merriam-Webster:

1. Creationism is the belief that the Universe and Life originate "from specific acts of divine creation." For young Earth creationists, this includes a biblical literalist interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative and the rejection of the scientific theory of evolution. Wiki

Notice the distinction between creationism and young earth creationism?

God Created the universe and put His Laws into place.
Even Evolution show a lot of what God did. Because he left evidence for us to examine.

 

[RickG]

Then use the right term. Creationist means all Creationists including Theistic Evolutionists. If you are talking about YEC then use the term Young Earth Creationists. If you want to confuse the language then your only going to fail to make your point.

Joshua, this thread is not about creationism, it is about "creation science" and specific examples of showing not a different interpretation of the same evidence, but rather the misrepresentation of that same evidence. There is a difference. Again, I'll ask you to please contribute to the thread by staying on topic and not interpreting your own personal ideas as to what the topic of the thread is. If you dispute any of the already presented examples, then please state so and present conclusive honest evidence to the contrary. Your "appropriate" contributions will be appreciated.

 

[RickG]

Psalm 102:18 "This will be written for the generation to come, That a people yet to be created may praise the LORD."
Romans15:4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

David is aware that he is writting for a future generation. So 3,000 years ago, he knew he was talking to us today. Paul says this was written for our instruction. So does that boggle your mind that someone 3,000 years ago is talking to you today and trying to instruct you in the way of righteousness? Why is it so difficult for you to understand that I know David and David knows me. Even though we have not yet met in person but someday we will. It was the 119 psalm where David really opened my understanding. When David talks about his love for the law and the ordinances of God. They were given to guide us and teach us, also to preserve and keep us strong and healthy.

psalm 119:97 "Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long."

Prov3 "7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and turn away from evil. 8 It will be healing to your body And strength to your bones."

Apologetics are strictly forbidden, not by me or anyone posting here, but by the Forum Rules. Please review those rules and abide by them.

 

[Loudmouth]

1. Creationism is the belief that the Universe and Life originate "from specific acts of divine creation." For young Earth creationists, this includes a biblical literalist interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative and the rejection of the scientific theory of evolution. Wiki

Notice the distinction between creationism and young earth creationism?

Notice that neither of them include evolution? Specific acts of divine creation is the opposite of evolution. When we are talking about creation science in this thread, we are not talking about scientists who accept evolution.

 

[RickG]

Notice that neither of them include evolution? Specific acts of divine creation is the opposite of evolution. When we are talking about creation science in this thread, we are not talking about scientists who accept evolution.

(Bold emphasis) In fact, just the opposite. Not to mention the more broad view of all physical sciences.