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Creation Science Resources

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by mark kennedy, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. FaithfulPilgrim

    FaithfulPilgrim Eternally Seeking

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    A common response for the defense of the days being 24 hours is that the there was an evening and a morning and tha thr sun was actually created on Day 1 but was not visible from earth until Day 4.

    However, an interesting response I found about the "evening and morning" is that the connotation of evening in ancient Hebrew is chaos and disorder while the morning's connotation is order and organization. Therefore the phrase "evening and morning" could represent the transition from chaos to order.

    I got it from the link below and I was going to recommed it as a creation resource anyway.

    http://www.bethinking.org/does-evolution-disprove-creation/let-there-be-light
     
  2. rakovsky

    rakovsky Newbie

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    I understand.
    However there is no specification that the sun was made on day 1, while there is one that the greater lights, sun and moon, were made on day 4.

    The mainstream Bible commentaries, even Calvin's, agree.
     
  3. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Hey this is a Creation Science Resource Thread not a debate thread. Stop trying to flame it!
     
  4. FaithfulPilgrim

    FaithfulPilgrim Eternally Seeking

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    I don't think he is flaming. His profile does say he is a theistic evolutionist, but even if he is not supposed to debate here, he is being civil from what I can tell.
     
  5. FaithfulPilgrim

    FaithfulPilgrim Eternally Seeking

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    Does anyone have any resources that presents both YEC views and OEC views unbiasedly?

    Also, I do have a few questions about Old Earth Creationism.
     
  6. PGL

    PGL New Member

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  7. PGL

    PGL New Member

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    The essential prerequisite to ANY train of thought qualifying as a scientific discipline is that all of its steps and procedures are replicable by anyone duplicating the same process, and that the results are identical. Therefore, ANY such process ('creationism, intelligent design', etc) are INHERENTLY DISQUALIFIED from being scientific disciplines. WHY? Because at least ONE of their procedures are NOT replicable, being of Divine origin and therefore supernatural versus 'natural' and not replicable by human beings.
     
  8. PGL

    PGL New Member

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    Evolution as a scientific discipline must be divorced from the associated parent philosophy “Uniformitarianism” which was in vogue preceding it for reasons which have been discredited since. Evolution is a valid scientific discipline, Uniformitarianism is a disproven philosophy and school of thought. Uniformitarianism has intruded and embedded itself into scientific thought and thus skewed many considerations of cosmology and astral physics from being objective and empirical. Never mind poor old Emmanuel Velikovsky: While the evidence that he was considering was and is relevant and valid, his derivations (due to his great lack in correct scientific methodology) and conclusions were far amiss. He thus did a great disservice to the school of astral catastrophism, and set back its credibility immensely.

    The most recent conclusive disproof of Uniformitarianism is this(Coverage to the public was broadcast on a segment of Nova in the last 12 months):

    1. In the past decade (survey completion in last 3-4 years) a radar/topological mapping satellite of improved precision surveyed the surface of Venus.

    2. Recently formed (even of possibly historical times), non-eroded craters were found in large and significant quantities on the surface of Venus, craters which were not the result of volcanic activity, but of astral catastrophism (meteoric impact).

    3. When a renowned (I didn’t take note of his name, due to the following) uniformitarian astrophysicist was interviewed for his opinion he said: “Well, I don’t see how Uniformitarianism can ever possibly explain these craters. But, nevertheless, I’m not willing to give it up”.

    4. Gentleman, this is not objective, logical, scientific methodology. Scientific methodology requires that when the derived conclusions of your theory are found to be false in light of the evidence, then you either discard the theory or, if possible modify the flawed part of it accordingly. To cling to it after it has been disproved is not objective, it is religious domaticism.

    “Creationism” per se in all of its multi-fared manifestations, invoking to some extent and at some point a supernatural genesis of species, thus by its very nature cannot nor ever can be a scientific discipline. That being the case, “creationism” has absolutely no place whatsoever in any scientific textbook.
     
  9. PGL

    PGL New Member

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    B. Catastrophism

    Let me clarify one thing from the start: I absolutely believe in the prophetic word of the Bible; that the past cataclysmic events portrayed in the Bible were performed by God exactly as written and that, where it is recorded as such, He told His people ahead of time, before the event. What I am saying is that to avoid compromising free will by leaving too much evidence of what could only be direct divine intervention, God executed such large‑scale cataclysmic events by natural means in conformity with the laws of the physical universe. Thus, we should expect to find evidence of the means used to cause these events.


    As far north as Spitzbergen, in the polar circle, at some time in the past, coral reefs were formed, which do not occur except in tropical regions; palms also grew on Spitzbergen. The continent of Antarctica, which today has not a single tree on it, must have been covered at one time by forests, since it has coal deposits.186



    Every indication is that the mammoths died suddenly, in intense cold, and in great numbers. Death came so quickly that the swallowed vegetation is yet undigested in their stomachs and their mouths....

    In the case of the mammoths, the span of time between death and freezing call be estimated quite accurately through an examination of the carcasses. This is determined by the extent of water separation within the cell, for water begins to separate within the cell at death, and it ceases to separate at freezing. The smaller extent of separated water indicates that carcasses were frozen rapidly, perhaps at temperatures below –150degrees F.

    Temperatures of this severity exist in our solar system, but not at the surface of the Earth.188


    `Sedentary rock covers high mountains and the highest of all, the Himalayas. Shells and skeletons of sea animals are found there. This means that at some time fish swam over these mountains. What caused the mountains to rise?

    A force pushing from within or pulling from without or twisting on the sides must have elevated the mountains and lifted continents from the bottom of the sea and submerged other landmasses. 193



    As we have seen, evolution is a viable process, and its validity is substantiated not only by scientific evidence but also by Scripture itself. However, the school of thought that gave birth to evolution‑ Uniformitarianism‑ is in complete contradiction to all the evidence: geological, historical, and astronomical. Strict Uniformitarianism, at least to the extent of preclusion of astral catatrophism, is untenable and insupportable.


    Uniformitarianism as a school of thought was founded on incomplete data, before the discovery of the asteroid belt, planetary moons with retrograde orbits, and the overlapping of the orbits of Neptune and Pluto, all of which are in direct contradiction to Uniformitarianism. Uniformitarianism alone is incapable of furnishing a mechanism both for the so‑called Ice Age(s) and mountain‑building; or of explaining the sudden deaths of the mammoths, among many other things. Only astral catastrophism offers a viable mechanism for the occurrence of these events. That astral catatrophism has in fact occurred is borne out by the mute witness of the meteoritic scars of Mars, Mercury, the Earth, and its moon. That astral catatrophism of a sufficient magnitude involving the Earth has indeed occurred is evidenced by the "Carolina craters" and the related pair of holes in the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean off the southeastern coast or the United States. That such events do occur in historical times is evidenced by the Siberian meteorite of Jun 30, 1908 and by the near‑miss of the Earth in February of 1936 by a much larger asteroid, which passed within the orbit of the moon.


    And Jehovah said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thy hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valor.... So the people shouted, and the priests blew the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, that the people shouted with a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. (Josh. 6:2, 20)



    The great walls of Jericho- they were twelve feet wide‑ have been excavated. They were found to have been destroyed by an earthquake.198


    The direct correlation between biblical catastrophic events and natural terrestrial effects is readily substantiated, but what is the indicated causal mechanism for these catastrophic events?


    The evidence mandates that the short‑period comets of our solar system had to have been acquired (through gravitational capture) from interstellar space within recent geological times, probably within historical times. This acquisition by the sun of previously extra‑solar (system) material is not limited only to cometary material or to material of cometary size. It is probable (indeed required by the known evidence) that the planets were acquired by the sun in the same way


    It has been shown in this book, however, that forces which at present do not act on the earth, did so act in historical times, and that these forces are of a purely physical character. Scientific principles do not warrant maintaining that a force which does not act now, could not have acted previously. Or must we be in permanent collision with the planets and comets to believe in such catastrophes? 207


    And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and Jehovah caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all the night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand and on their left. (Exod. 14:21‑22)


    In some parts of Egypt, where bolides chanced to fall, we propose that entire communities were demolished, (as in the case of the collapsed building where Job's children were having a birthday party exactly 216 years earlier). In addition, as we shall soon show, tidal waves perhaps 100 feet high swept the Mediterranean coast of Egypt. (When the tidal wave emanated from Krakatoa in 1883, it was a maximum of 100 feet high on the nearby coasts of Java and Sumatra and 36,000 people were drowned.) A tidal bore sweeping up the Nile Delta would also create ample havoc for that, the richest part of Egypt. 215


    THERA. Thera is an island 70 miles north of Crete in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, and about 180 miles southeast of Athens. It is a caldera, about eight miles across on one side and ten miles across on tile other. The rim of the caldera projects above sea level; the crater is below sea level. A caldera is formed when a marine volcano expels several cubic miles of ash cinder, dust and lava, and the expulsion results in a hollow center. The hollow center is partly below sea level. The volcanic walls then collapse, leaving merely the rim. Thera is the largest known carldera on Earth....

    The eruption of Thera has been correlated within the last two decades with the cataclysmic events simultaneous with the Exodus Catastrophe. The correlation in timing has been by carbon‑14 datings, by buried archaeological pottery, and by historical analysis. Certain timbers remain there, buried in the paroxysm, which yield carbon‑14 dates identical to those of the Exodus upheaval. The correlations in timing have been well documented by Mavor, Luce, and more recently, in National Geographic.... Assuming that the effect would dissipate with distance, how large would the tidal wave have been on the Levant Coast or moving up the Nile Delta, or across the Suez Isthmus? A wave of 100 feet in height could be a conservative estimate. The Suez Isthmus is 500 miles from Thera.

    The paroxysm of Thera correlates with the Exodus holocaust in Egypt. Three days after the passover, the tidal waves generated by the collapsing walls of the volcanic cone would correlate with the water overwhelming Egyptian charioteers as they pursued the children of Israel across the Suez Isthmus. The site of the inundation of the Egyptian army and deliverance of the fleeing Hebrew is thought to be an arm of Lake Menzilah, an ancient lagoon adjoining the Mediterranean Sea, and was not the Red Sea as we know it today. 216


    So often the Flood has been pictured as having been caused only by excessive rain.... Now if the Flood had been a local phenomenon, then the accounts of an overwhelming flood might presumably have come in from one or two particular regions of localities of the Earth. Yet the accounts of an ancient Flood of continental proportions persist in over 40 different cultures in each hemisphere.

    Similarly, water‑lain strata occurs on a global scale, and at almost every elevation, both above and below mean sea level.... Evidence of a World Flood of continental dimensions occur both in the traditions of man and in the fossils and strata of his terrestrial domain. Furthermore, evidences of former gravitational interactions and tidal responses occur among other planets.... this particular account of a Flood given in Genesis ... teaches that the rain was associated with the Flood, but not that rain was the primary cause of the Flood. The two phenomena were merely simultaneous....

    The proposition herein set forth is that the Flood was caused by tidal movements of the oceans, tides in sub-continental proportion. Rain was also involved, but its ratio was the proverbial drop in the bucket.222


    Obviously, an astral body large enough to have caused the phenomenon of the Flood was far too large to be termed a comet per se. Such a body could well have had an exterior crusting of "cometary" ice, though, but would more properly be termed a planetary body than a comet. A mechanistically plausible theorization that explains heretofore unaccountable (by Uniformitarianism) astral and terrestrial phenomena is ably presented by Mr. Donald W. Patten in The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch. I highly recommend this book for its cogent evaluation and presentation.


    Author's Note: Since my writing of this section, rock specimens have been found in Antarctica that have been shown to have been at one time on the surface of Mars; and also some which had, at one time, been on the surface of the far side of the moon.

    Also, within the last 20 years a complete, detailed planetary topological mapping of Venus was carried out by satellite. Venus has a violent (600 mph) and corrosive (sulphuric acid) atmosphere. Yet craters (with little or no detectable erosion) were found that had to have been formed within recent, perhaps historical times. This alone directly disproves Uniformitarianism. When NOVA asked an astrophysicist about this, his reply was: ‘I don’t see how Uniformitarianism can ever possibly explain those craters. But I’m not willing to give it up.’

    Sir, your answer is the epitome of religious dogmatism and not that of objective, scientific methodology.


    There is no exception to the rule that every organic being naturally increases at so high a rate, that, if not destroyed, the earth would soon be covered by the progeny of a single pair. Even slow‑breeding man has doubled in twenty‑five years, and at this rate, in less than a thousand years, there would literally not be standing‑room for his progeny. 226


    We see, by the scientific evidence above, that both the details and the postulated date of occurrence of the Genesis Flood are not in conflict with any known genetic or population contingencies, which are the relevant areas of consideration.

     
  10. PGL

    PGL New Member

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    The occurrence of the Flood should exhibit peculiar evidence in certain specific archaeological areas. Remember, the re‑population of the Earth after the Flood began from just one place in the Middle East, the place where the ark landed. It is almost certain that man, before the Flood, had settled in all areas of the globe. However, since his evolution occurred only in the Old World, the amount of archaeological evidence of his pre‑Flood existence in the New World would be much less prevalent than in the Old World. It is to be expected, then, that the Flood left much less archaeological evidence of pre‑Flood man in the New World than in the Old, since such evidence was more recent and of a much shorter duration. There should thus be a discrepancy in the archaeological evidence of the We see, by the scientific evidence above, that both the details and the postulated date of occurrence of the Genesis Flood are not in conflict with any known genetic or population contingencies, which are the relevant areas of consideration.

    The occurrence of the Flood should exhibit peculiar evidence in certain specific archaeological areas. Remember, the re‑population of the Earth after the Flood began from just one place in the Middle East, the place where the ark landed. It is almost certain that man, before the Flood, had settled in all areas of the globe. However, since his evolution occurred only in the Old World, the amount of archaeological evidence of his pre‑Flood existence in the New World would be much less prevalent than in the Old World. It is to be expected, then, that the Flood left much less archaeological evidence of pre‑Flood man in the New World than in the Old, since such evidence was more recent and of a much shorter duration. There should thus be a discrepancy in the archaeological evidence of the Old World.



    As we have seen, there is no evidence of true fossil man in the Americas. Archaeological evidence, however, points to considerably greater antiquity for man than do the known skeletal remains. 232



    The reality both of the Flood and of its global magnitude has been consistently substantiated not only in the literary heritage of diverse cultures worldwide but also by the archaeological and geological evidence.


    The only material consideration, scientifically, is whether or not such an explanation is mechanistically possible within the confines of the laws of the physical universe. Such an explanation for the biblically (among other numerous sources) recorded catastrophes, which is imminently feasible mechanistically, is ably presented in the book The Long Day of Joshua and Six Other Catastrophes. I strongly recommend this book to all skeptical inquirers after truth.


     
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