Creation Science Evangelism

the truth said:

Amen

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Dunno why you'd "amen" that. Whether Hovind is the source of the misinformation or not, doesn't mean he doesn't spread misinformation. And if he's not the original source, then he's guilty of not doing proper research (well, anyone who knows anything about various subjects in geology, evolution, physics, etc will already know that).

edited to add: And for the record, not everyone who disagrees with Hovind is an atheist.

lucaspa said:

This is the only one of the list that may possibly be killing for the museum. Even here, the murder was not committed by the personnel of the museum.

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Granted.

Even here, there is no indication that the two people had been shot to provide the specimen. Yes, the "keen young science student" made sure the specimens were sent to the museum, but there is no hint in the text that the museum asked that the people be killed.

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Like I said, AIG often leaves out the details and leaves it to the reader's imagination to fill in the blanks. Wouldn't be the first time...

Again, it looks like the Aborigines were slaughtered for other reasons and only afterward were some specimens sent off as an afterthought.

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True. Based on the additional quote you provided from the Bulletin, the events there don't sound different than other cases of genocidal behavior on other continents.

The spin is definitely heavy on the article, which is why I wanted a more balanced look at it. I posted it to T.O. already, so I wonder what kind of feedback I'll get there...

I take it you haven't been paying attention to the conversation here, have you.

Yes, Amen to Liars and frauds.

the truth said:

Amen

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You know, some people here have accused us of being overtly hostile towards Hovind and others. And, given this thread, I can understand why. So, I'd just like to set the record straight why people here often react the way they do (this has been done before, but it bears repeating).

First of all, Hovind is not news to this forum. A quick search will reveal numerous threads in which his material has been debated and debunked countless times. On average, I'd say someone shows up about every 2 months, straight from Hovind's site, reciting his material as canon, and (probably) expecting a quick victory over the "evolutionists". But the reality is we're not newbies to this. I can't speak for others, but as for myself, I've watched almost all of Hovind's videos (except the conspiracy theory one, which I had no interest in), read a bulk of the material on his site, and listened to a number of debates between him and others. I have also read various material debunking Hovind, various debates over his material, and participated in a number of debates/discussions myself. So, if I seem dismissive of Hovind, it's because I've heard it all before. If you have something new to bring to the table, then bring it. But don't think I'll buy into Hovind's material because you point me to his site.

I can see how to a newbie to the forum, we might seem overly hostile about Hovind. But because he's been debunked here so many times, it gets old having to do it again and again. And so far, I've yet to see any person arguing in favor Hovind actually hold their ground in these debates (not that I'm surprised, though; Hovind's material has been so thoroughly debunked that defending it seems near impossible).

So, I'd like to offer a couple survival tips to newbies to the forum:

1) Lurk first, post second. Read the archives. Get a feel for what types of discussions go on here and what has been discussed in the past. Get a feel for the various personalities that populate the forum.

2) Research the material. The creationism/evolution debate is controversial, and like any controversial topic can get pretty heated at times. There are a lot of sides to this debate (it's not strictly evolution versus creationism), and a LOT of material to cover for such a debate. And don't simply treat a single web site as canon. Research both sides. Check sources. And learn as much as you can.

3) One of the rules of this forum is "You will come in here with the attitude and mindset that you are not always right. Stonewallers, and trolls need not apply." If you already have made up your mind and refuse to budge, then don't expect to get anywhere here. Discussion of these ideas only works if both sides are will to properly evaluate the opposing ideas. Only by willingness to be open to new ideas can you really learn. And only by learning will you survive these debates.

the search function is also great. a search for hovind in science forums thread titles pulls up no less than 20 threads

http://christianforums.com/search.php?searchid=90510

and a more general search pulls up 366 results

http://christianforums.com/search.php?searchid=90512

as you can see. hovind is well featured.

Since you Atheist seem to dismiss Creation so easy why don't you debate Dr. Hovind LIVE?

toll free > 1.888.878.8436
Weekdays from 5pm to 6pm central

TruthTraveler said:

Since you Atheist seem to dismiss Creation so easy why don't you debate Dr. Hovind LIVE?

toll free > 1.888.878.8436
Weekdays from 5pm to 6pm central

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you know that evolution is not atheism. you know that we don't dismiss creation, merely Young Earth Creationism. you know what tactics hovind uses. you know that his science is rubbish, and he couldn't cope with a proper written debate, ever.



in short, you're a troll aren't you?

Jet Black said:

you know that evolution is not atheism. you know that we don't dismiss creation, merely Young Earth Creationism. you know what tactics hovind uses. you know that his science is rubbish, and he couldn't cope with a proper written debate, ever.

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Well call in I wanna hear.

You can have your evidence and information all set out in front of you and watch Dr. Hovind pimp slap you with the truth.

TruthTraveler said:

Well call in I wanna hear.

You can have your evidence and information all set out in front of you and watch Dr. Hovind pimp slap you with the truth.

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I'm not going to call all the way from Germany. I'm not mad, however if he wants a written debate I would be glad to oblige.

TruthTraveler said:

Since you Atheist seem to dismiss Creation so easy why don't you debate Dr. Hovind LIVE?

toll free > 1.888.878.8436
Weekdays from 5pm to 6pm central

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First of all, not everyone here who disagrees with creationism are atheists. Attempting to label them as such is just ignorant.

Second, as I've explain countless times, live debates are useless for this subject matter because the material is too broad and too deep to be properly covered in a live debate.

The reason Hovind likes his live debates is so he can shower his opponents with a barrage of strawman, witticisms, and other sound bites which would take too long to sort through in a live debate.

Hovind's material has been routinely debunked here. If Hovind wants to defend it, he is more than welcome to show up on these forums. But he won't.

TruthTraveler said:

You can have your evidence and information all set out in front of you and watch Dr. Hovind pimp slap you with the truth.

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You wish. Get Hovind in here and we'll see who gets "pimp slapped". Hovind won't debate in writing because he knows his material won't stand up to that kind of scrutiny.

If you think Hovind's material is so hot, try using it for a debate here. I dare ya.

TruthTraveler said:

Well call in I wanna hear.

You can have your evidence and information all set out in front of you and watch Dr. Hovind pimp slap you with the truth.

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ROFL; I never thought I'd see the day when someone claimed Hovind would "pimp slap" somebody.

Oh, sweet mother. I'm writing that one down.

Pete Harcoff said:

You wish. Get Hovind in here and we'll see who gets "pimp slapped". Hovind won't debate in writing because he knows his material won't stand up to that kind of scrutiny.

If you think Hovind's material is so hot, try using it for a debate here. I dare ya.

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Looks like you Atheist got some GIRLY voices on the phone. I see why you don't wan't to call......................

I smell troll. Travel back under your bridge TruthTraveler.

The frumious Bandersnatch

What religion exactly says you came from a rock Billions of years ago?

Just believing in (a)God is not gonna get you into Heaven. LOL

TruthTraveler said:

What religion exactly says you came from a rock Billions of years ago?

Just believing in (a)God is not gonna get you into Heaven. LOL

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quiet, or I will let the billy goats out.

Frumious Bandersnatch said:

I smell troll.

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Your smelling your upper lip.

Frumious Bandersnatch said:

I smell troll. Travel back under your bridge TruthTraveler.

The frumious Bandersnatch

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Yup. The distinct lack of coherent arguments coupled with ad hominem attacks. Off to ignore he goes.

Silver bullets or a stake?

How about we make it simple. Hovind - or his representative, TruthTraveller- posts one piece of evidence for YEC and one piece of evidence against biological evolution (ignore the stellar stuff and big bang for now).

Someone here then gets to post one piece of evidence for biological evolution and one piece of evidence against YEC.

Then they each get to rebut the two pieces of evidence of the other.

Off-topic stuff is not allowed.

Truth Traveller, as I know that Hovind will not 'stoop' to doing this, how about you? You can use his stuff, of course.

That way we could have a discussion about this, instead of a p*ssing contest.