Creation Science Evangelism

LorentzHA · Oct 11, 2003

Someone above just said "God bless his ministry"- That has been the only truth related to Mr. Hovind. It IS a ministry, it has NOTHING to do with science and he should quit posing. Give him your money and he will give you bad science that you can go back and share at Wednesday Night Bible Study. EEEEEKKKKKK!! What is the whole point of this anyhow a young or old Earth does not prove a God, heaven or hell. The whole premise is foolish...

Jet Black · Oct 11, 2003

Pete Harcoff said:
As for Walt Brown, his debate challenge is very narrow (for example, he refuses to debate with anyone who doesn't have a PhD). Here's an example of a person who challenged Walt, but was refused: http://gondwanaresearch.com/hp/walt_brown.htm

is Dr Meert JGMEERT who hangs around here?

Pete Harcoff · Oct 11, 2003

Jet Black said:
is Dr Meert JGMEERT who hangs around here?

Yup. He's more a regular at II, but has posted on a variety of Christian boards including this one.

the truth · Oct 11, 2003

Please do us all of a favor and list some of these lies the Dr. Hovind has told. I would like to hear them.

PhantomLlama · Oct 11, 2003

Here's one:

'My $250,000 offer demonstrates that the hypothesis of evolution is nothing more than a religious belief.'

That is untrue. His offer is biased and unanswerable, and as such does no such thing.

And don't forget:

I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God:

Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves.
Planets and stars formed from space dust.
Matter created life by itself.
Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves.
Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals).

Evolution has no opinion on 1, 2, 3, or 4. 1&2 are cosmology, 3 is abiogenesis, and 4 is a half truth, not actually necessary for the modern theory.

ThePhoenix · Oct 11, 2003

No new information
Radioactive dating methods are worthless
Human footprints have been found with dinosaur fossils
the flood could have created strata
Irriducable complexity

Basically any Drdino claim you post can be refuted.

the_malevolent_milk_man · Oct 11, 2003

http://www.christianforums.com/t56221&page=1

General thread bashing Dr Dino and his absurd claims

As much as I dislike AIG even they, a creationist organization known for using flimsy evidence, think that Hovind is a nut.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1011hovind.asp

notto · Oct 11, 2003

the truth said:
Please do us all of a favor and list some of these lies the Dr. Hovind has told. I would like to hear them.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind-decision.html
Notwithstanding the debtor's (Hovind) listing under penalty of perjury in his schedules and statement of affairs that he has no income, has no expenses, and owns no property, the evidence shows otherwise. Records from the State of Florida, Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles ("DHSMV") reflect three motor vehicles, a 1987 Mercury, 1989 GMC, and 1984 Honda titled in the debtor's name. Real property records from Escambia County, Florida reflect that the debtor and his wife purchased a home on December 16, 1993 from Ernest and Voncile Hicks and gave the Hicks, a mortgage in the amount of $60,000 encumbering the home. The testimony of Mrs. Hicks together with a closing statement from the sale, reflects a purchase price of $90,000 for the house with the debtor paying $30,369.43 down. Mrs. Hicks' testimony further established that the debtor makes regular payments on the mortgage and has in fact paid in advance on the mortgage. Typically, payments are made with third party checks made payable to the debtor and endorsed over to Mrs. Hicks. In February, 1995, the debtor paid $3,265.00 for the installation of central heating and air conditioning in the house. Additionally, the debtor has three children all of whom attend a private Christian school for which he and his wife pay approximately $4,800.00 per year in tuition and fees.

PhantomLlama · Oct 11, 2003

A real howler from the bottom of his 250K page:

Sincerely,

Kent Hovind

Arikay · Oct 11, 2003

My favorite from Hovind is the bar code junk. thats why we were posting barcodes Its my favorite because it is so completly absurd, I dont know why anyone believes him. A kid with a computer to tell you it was a lie. (and yes, i have actually e-mailed him about it, I got an automated response, and it has not changed.) Here it is:

B) FAQ 39*-*What about the Mark of the Beast?
(http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=faq&specific=39)

One example of technology is the UPC, or bar code. IBM developed the bar code in 1972. The black and white lines stand for numbers and letters in binary code. By the way, the two skinny lines at the beginning, middle, and end of every barcode are the same as "6" in binary code: 666. Under some bar codes you may see an F or H printed sideways, which may stand for forehead and hand.

False.
From, http://www.adams1.com/pub/russadam/faq.html
Is there a hidden 666 in bar code?
NO! I get this question asked at least once a week. What people really mean is "does UPC found on grocery products have a hidden 666 (mentioned in Revelation 13:16 in the New Testament)?" People have thought that the three guard bars used to specify the start, middle and end of a UPC bar code looked like the bar code sequence for a "6" found in the UPC symbol table. You can find a copy of the symbol table on the UPC/EAN page. These guard bars are not "6" and carry no information. Even if you don't believe that guard bars carry no information and insist on applying the code table, you have to determine whether the digit is on the left side or the right side of the symbol. That's because the sequence of bars and spaces are different depending on whether the digit is on the left of the symbol or the right of the symbol. The LEFT guard bar would have to be smallest space, smallest bar, smallest space, WIDEST BAR in order to be a "6". The guard bar on the left is actually space of undetermined wide (left side digit must always start with a space element), smallest bar, smallest space, smallest bar. That sequence of bars and spaces is undefined and is not a "6" even using the table. The middle guard bar is not on the left or the right ('cause it is used to divide the symbol), so it is undefined by the table.

A more in depth explanation can be found here: http://www.virtualsalt.com/barcode.htm

In it shows what a barcode would look like with all 6s and shows that the barcode for 6 is different than the guard bars.

Pete Harcoff · Oct 11, 2003

How about the one where he accused the Smithsonian Institute of mass murder?

The Smithsonian Institute has 33,000 sets of human remains in their basement right now as you are reading this. Many of them were taken while the people were still alive. They were so desperate to find missing links, so desperate to prove their theory that they murdered people to prove it.
- Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 4 - a transcript of Kent Hovind's early sermons circa 1996.

MartinM · Oct 11, 2003

Pete Harcoff said:
How about the one where he accused the Smithsonian Institute of mass murder?

Heh. I use that one as my sig on another forum.

chris320 · Oct 11, 2003

Pete Harcoff said:
The term here is Creation Science, not Christian Science (Christian Science is a subset of Christianity that focuses on faith-healing, from what I understand).

This is incorrect. Christian Science has nothing to do with Christianity. It does not promote a born again experience where you encounter the living God. It is based on the idea that you can will things into existance by your mind. This is very different from faith healing, which is based on Jesus bearing our sin AND sicknesses on the cross

Pete Harcoff said:
Creation Science, on the other hand, is an attempt at twisting modern science to fit with a literal Bible....Modern science, on the other hand, has refuted these notions (in fact, some of these ideas were rejected almost 200 years ago), because the evidence in the Earth does not support these ideas (the Earth is generally accepted to be 4.5 billion years old, for example). Yet, some Christians still try to claim that the evidence really confirms their ideas based on the literal Bible.

There is such a thing as the gap theory, which refutes evolution and still allows a creation belief based on a literal Bible and the evidence in the Earth.

-Chris320

chris320 · Oct 11, 2003

PhantomLlama said:
I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God

Exactly. These five major beliefs are just that, beliefs. You cannot use science to prove them. That is why evolution is a THEORY.

Pete Harcoff · Oct 11, 2003

chris320 said:
This is incorrect. Christian Science has nothing to do with Christianity. It is based on the idea that you can will things into existance by your mind. This is very different from faith healing.

Er no, Christian Science is based on Christianity.

Christian Science is a Christian denomination based on the teachings and works of Christ Jesus. The Church was founded in 1879 by Mary Baker Eddy, with this purpose: ". . . to commemorate the word and works of our Master, which should reinstate primitive Christianity and its lost element of healing."

Seeking and finding God is central to the practice of Christian Science. God is understood as the all-loving, omnipotent Father-Mother, and Christ Jesus as His Son. Jesus' human life characterized the kind of sonship that Christian Scientists believe is provable for all as the children of God. He is seen as the Exemplar, the Way-shower. The divine nature he expressed is the Christ, and the Christ-God's expression of Himself-is eternal and ever-present. Understanding man's pure, indestructible relationship with God is what results in regeneration and healing.

Source

You might be thinking of something else (Scientology perhaps?).

There is such a thing as the gap theory, which refutes evolution and still allows a creation belief based on a literal Bible and the evidence in the Earth.

Yeah, but the most outspoken creationists tend to be YECs.

Pete Harcoff · Oct 12, 2003

chris320 said:
Exactly. These five major beliefs are just that, beliefs. You cannot use science to prove them. That is why evolution is a THEORY.

Nothing in science can be proven. Heck, everything in life rests on certain philosophical beliefs about the very nature of existence. So technically, you can't prove anything.

As far as evolution only being a theory, that is all it will ever be. Just like the theory of gravity, theory of general relativity, germ theory, etc. Do you understand what a scientific theory is?

the_malevolent_milk_man · Oct 12, 2003

God kills a kitten everytime a YEC uses the word theory without understanding what that means. Please, I beg you, spare the kittens.

Arikay · Oct 12, 2003

Um, what pete said.

What you quoted was actually refering to the fact that the line is Wrong.

"I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God"

This is often a statement Hovind makes. Its completly false, but that doesn't stop him from saying its true.

A "theory" and a "scientific theory" are seperate things, I would suggest learning about the scientific one.
Germ Theory is "just a theory" I mean, isn't it just so obvious that the idea that things like bacteria make us sick is just an atheistic guess to throw us off the truth. Demons do it.

chris320 said:
Exactly. These five major beliefs are just that, beliefs. You cannot use science to prove them. That is why evolution is a THEORY.

Philosoft · Oct 12, 2003

chris320 said:
There is such a thing as the gap theory, which refutes evolution and still allows a creation belief based on a literal Bible and the evidence in the Earth.

That's correct. Except you misspelled a word. "Fantasy" is not spelled t-h-e-o-r-y.

TruthTraveler · Oct 12, 2003

Wow, you Atheist need to learn how to LISTEN, almost all of Dr. Hovind's info is from OTHER people so why are you blaming him for atleast informing you?

"Eat the meat and spit out the bones"

As for the Smithsonian killing [size=-1]Aboriginal people[/size] that is true.
Just like the Holocaust you can say it didn't happen but it did.

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