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Creation predictions

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Ted
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Hi DH,

You asked:
Then how can man know that god did anything?

This is why God had the Scriptures written. As a testimony to what He has done in bringing about man and the life that we have.

One must take some time and study to put all of this together. And, as the Scriptures declare, without faith all of this seems as foolishness to those who are perishing. My righteous ones shall live by faith, God declares. We must start with Abraham. God called a regular guy living in Ur of the Chaldeans. A man of no particular importance and why God chose him is honestly anyone's guess. But He did. He made a number of promises to Abraham. One of those was that He was going to raise up a nation of people through him who would be His (God's) people. As we follow along through the account of Abraham and his descendants, we find that they began to write down, often by the command of God, the things that He revealed to them. Moses spent a fairly lengthy period of time on the mountain with God and throughout Moses' life we find God telling him to write things down. These writings became what we know today as the Scriptures of Israel.

My own testimony is that God first proved Himself to me through the many fulfilled prophecies of the Scriptures. Once I came to the understanding that there must be this entity who calls Himself God to His people, because there just isn't anyway that any mere mortal men could possibly have known the outcome of the many prophecies that were fulfilled, then, by faith, I came to believe that if He is right in all of these prophecies, then the rest of it must be true also. The Scriptures do tell us that God cannot lie. Man, of course, limited by the knowledge that man has about man, believes that the Scriptures, like any other writings of men - great books and poems and stories and such - are merely the writings that have been spawned by the thoughts and imaginations of men. The fulfillment of all the prophecies quickly dispels that idea within my mind. There just isn't anyway that the prophecies written in the Scriptures, some hundreds of years before their fulfillment, could have been written by such wanderings, musings and imagination of men. There must really be some being who does know the end from the beginning, just as God declares of Himself in the Scriptures. There honestly just can't be any other explanation of these things, as far as I'm concerned.

So, once I became firmly grounded in my faith and understanding that God does exist, then the rest pretty much fell into line with this understanding that He does love us and He did create us and there is an end game to all of this which is fairly well described in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Because all the things before were fulfilled just as they have been foretold, I have no doubt that the things yet to be, that have been foretold, will likewise be fulfilled just as we have been told that they will.

So, there is a logical reason for one's understanding that there is a God and He does know the end from the beginning. Once we come face to face with the awesome love and power of this God, then those things that are written in the Scriptures that we just can't quite seem to understand the 'how' that they might have come to be, is answered simply be saying that God did it. He said He did it and I believe Him. Based pretty much on just the fact that He seems to have been right about everything else and therefore, there is no reason that I shouldn't believe Him in all of it.

However, there have always been those who deny God and that's what the Revelation tells us is going to be the eventuality of this existence. This God who has claimed to have created this realm of existence is going to separate from all of mankind those who believe Him and those who don't. Those who love Him and those who don't. Those who understand that He exists and those who don't. He is going to take those who believe and love and understand these things and set them apart from those who don't. Now, there are passages in the Scriptures that tell us the eternal existence after that time for those who believed and loved and understood will be one of peace and satisfaction. Those who didn't will have a life of fairly great suffering and torment. Because I believe that all that God caused to be written to me concerning the many fulfilled prophecies of the old covenant, I then believe that it's 100% likely that all the prophecies yet to be fulfilled will be fulfilled just as they are explained in those same Scriptures.

That's how I know that God did anything.

As to the rest of your following claims that these things for which we have no explanation just didn't happen. Again, the fulfilled prophecies of the Scriptures assure me that there is a being who knows what's going on in this world. Who knows the nature of men that He created and knows how all of this is going to work out. Who is able, merely by His power, to cause a deep sea of water to just separate into two standing walls of water. Who is able by His awesome power to just tell the rays of light from the sun to stop or turn back at any place and time. Who is able to create stars in the heavens that mere moments before didn't exist, and yet while they are billions of billions of billions of miles away from us, their light visible at the moment they were commanded to exist.

God has power that you or I will never completely comprehend. But as we come to faith and trust in Him, we begin to understand that He can do whatever He thinks in His thoughts to do. He has the power and authority over His creation to make a woman who has never had male seed within fifty miles of her womb to be carrying a child. He has the power and authority over His creation to make water jump up and dance like a gargantuan marionette, if He so chooses. He has the power and authority over His creation to make the sun go around backwards throughout the whole of the universe if He so chooses. He has the power and authority over His creation to forgive us of our sin against Him and our fellow man by the method of His choosing. The fullness of God's power and abilities over His creation are pretty much without limit as to what He can make things do.

That's the God that I serve.

I remember the introduction to the old Superman show. That he was able to leap tall buildings with a single bound. Now, I might walk into downtown New York city and think to myself, "Gee, wouldn't it be something if I could just jump over the Empire State building from the sidewalk below. No special devices or tools. Just jump up as if I were jumping rope, but jump high enough to go over the top antenna of the Empire State building. I can't do that. But God can think to imagine that I can jump right over the building and by golly, it will happen! I don't know the 'how' that He would cause me to go airborne from the sidewalk on one side of the building to land gently down on the other side of the building, but I know that He can do it! It is within his power and abilities to merely lift me up off the sidewalk and carry me over the top of the building and then let me fall back down on the other side to land safely on the sidewalk of the other side.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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Aman777

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Hi there folks

I'ld like to know from creationists out there...
What testable predictions does the creation model make?
And how exactly do they naturally flow from the creation model?

What is your, let's say, top 3 of testable predictions?

EDIT: I ask in context of biology.

1. The prophecy that Humans (descendants of Adam) will rule the world. Gen 1:28
2. The prophecy that ALL creatures will become Vegetarians. Gen 1:30
3. The prophecy that God will cease "ALL" of His creating. Gen 2:1-3

All of the above events take place at the end of the present 6th Day/Age AFTER Jesus returns to rule and reign with us for a thousand years. As you can see, everything flows from God's 7 Day Creation model. There's not enough time left for Humans to worry about biology since it will be burned soon. ll Peter 3:10 Today is the last Day since the 7th Day is eternity. Those are God's predictions.
 
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SkyWriting

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Hi there folks

I'ld like to know from creationists out there...
What testable predictions does the creation model make?
And how exactly do they naturally flow from the creation model?

What is your, let's say, top 3 of testable predictions?

EDIT: I ask in context of biology.

Becasue of a single creation event, species will:

1. Be found to be much older than previously believed (scientists shouldn't be assuming anyway).
2. More species will be found to co-exist at the same time, rather than one evolving into the other.
3. There will be an extreme shortage of mistakes in any fossils, and in living forms, due to excellent engineering on the front end.
4. It will become more and more obvious that nothing is random.
5. The "Junk DNA" concept will be discarded.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Hi DH,

You asked:


This is why God had the Scriptures written. As a testimony to what He has done in bringing about man and the life that we have.

One must take some time and study to put all of this together. And, as the Scriptures declare, without faith all of this seems as foolishness to those who are perishing. My righteous ones shall live by faith, God declares. We must start with Abraham. God called a regular guy living in Ur of the Chaldeans. A man of no particular importance and why God chose him is honestly anyone's guess. But He did. He made a number of promises to Abraham. One of those was that He was going to raise up a nation of people through him who would be His (God's) people. As we follow along through the account of Abraham and his descendants, we find that they began to write down, often by the command of God, the things that He revealed to them. Moses spent a fairly lengthy period of time on the mountain with God and throughout Moses' life we find God telling him to write things down. These writings became what we know today as the Scriptures of Israel.

My own testimony is that God first proved Himself to me through the many fulfilled prophecies of the Scriptures. Once I came to the understanding that there must be this entity who calls Himself God to His people, because there just isn't anyway that any mere mortal men could possibly have known the outcome of the many prophecies that were fulfilled, then, by faith, I came to believe that if He is right in all of these prophecies, then the rest of it must be true also. The Scriptures do tell us that God cannot lie. Man, of course, limited by the knowledge that man has about man, believes that the Scriptures, like any other writings of men - great books and poems and stories and such - are merely the writings that have been spawned by the thoughts and imaginations of men. The fulfillment of all the prophecies quickly dispels that idea within my mind. There just isn't anyway that the prophecies written in the Scriptures, some hundreds of years before their fulfillment, could have been written by such wanderings, musings and imagination of men. There must really be some being who does know the end from the beginning, just as God declares of Himself in the Scriptures. There honestly just can't be any other explanation of these things, as far as I'm concerned.

So, once I became firmly grounded in my faith and understanding that God does exist, then the rest pretty much fell into line with this understanding that He does love us and He did create us and there is an end game to all of this which is fairly well described in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Because all the things before were fulfilled just as they have been foretold, I have no doubt that the things yet to be, that have been foretold, will likewise be fulfilled just as we have been told that they will.

So, there is a logical reason for one's understanding that there is a God and He does know the end from the beginning. Once we come face to face with the awesome love and power of this God, then those things that are written in the Scriptures that we just can't quite seem to understand the 'how' that they might have come to be, is answered simply be saying that God did it. He said He did it and I believe Him. Based pretty much on just the fact that He seems to have been right about everything else and therefore, there is no reason that I shouldn't believe Him in all of it.

However, there have always been those who deny God and that's what the Revelation tells us is going to be the eventuality of this existence. This God who has claimed to have created this realm of existence is going to separate from all of mankind those who believe Him and those who don't. Those who love Him and those who don't. Those who understand that He exists and those who don't. He is going to take those who believe and love and understand these things and set them apart from those who don't. Now, there are passages in the Scriptures that tell us the eternal existence after that time for those who believed and loved and understood will be one of peace and satisfaction. Those who didn't will have a life of fairly great suffering and torment. Because I believe that all that God caused to be written to me concerning the many fulfilled prophecies of the old covenant, I then believe that it's 100% likely that all the prophecies yet to be fulfilled will be fulfilled just as they are explained in those same Scriptures.

That's how I know that God did anything.

As to the rest of your following claims that these things for which we have no explanation just didn't happen. Again, the fulfilled prophecies of the Scriptures assure me that there is a being who knows what's going on in this world. Who knows the nature of men that He created and knows how all of this is going to work out. Who is able, merely by His power, to cause a deep sea of water to just separate into two standing walls of water. Who is able by His awesome power to just tell the rays of light from the sun to stop or turn back at any place and time. Who is able to create stars in the heavens that mere moments before didn't exist, and yet while they are billions of billions of billions of miles away from us, their light visible at the moment they were commanded to exist.

God has power that you or I will never completely comprehend. But as we come to faith and trust in Him, we begin to understand that He can do whatever He thinks in His thoughts to do. He has the power and authority over His creation to make a woman who has never had male seed within fifty miles of her womb to be carrying a child. He has the power and authority over His creation to make water jump up and dance like a gargantuan marionette, if He so chooses. He has the power and authority over His creation to make the sun go around backwards throughout the whole of the universe if He so chooses. He has the power and authority over His creation to forgive us of our sin against Him and our fellow man by the method of His choosing. The fullness of God's power and abilities over His creation are pretty much without limit as to what He can make things do.

That's the God that I serve.

I remember the introduction to the old Superman show. That he was able to leap tall buildings with a single bound. Now, I might walk into downtown New York city and think to myself, "Gee, wouldn't it be something if I could just jump over the Empire State building from the sidewalk below. No special devices or tools. Just jump up as if I were jumping rope, but jump high enough to go over the top antenna of the Empire State building. I can't do that. But God can think to imagine that I can jump right over the building and by golly, it will happen! I don't know the 'how' that He would cause me to go airborne from the sidewalk on one side of the building to land gently down on the other side of the building, but I know that He can do it! It is within his power and abilities to merely lift me up off the sidewalk and carry me over the top of the building and then let me fall back down on the other side to land safely on the sidewalk of the other side.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Wall of text wich seems to be nothing but preaching.
Sorry, I'm not interested (nore do I have the time at his moment to read this in detail and respond)

This thread is about predictions of the creation model.
 
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DogmaHunter

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1. The prophecy that Humans (descendants of Adam) will rule the world. Gen 1:28
2. The prophecy that ALL creatures will become Vegetarians. Gen 1:30
3. The prophecy that God will cease "ALL" of His creating. Gen 2:1-3

All of the above events take place at the end of the present 6th Day/Age AFTER Jesus returns to rule and reign with us for a thousand years. As you can see, everything flows from God's 7 Day Creation model. There's not enough time left for Humans to worry about biology since it will be burned soon. ll Peter 3:10 Today is the last Day since the 7th Day is eternity. Those are God's predictions.

I'm not asking about religious prophecy.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Becasue of a single creation event, species will:

1. Be found to be much older than previously believed (scientists shouldn't be assuming anyway).

What do you mean by this? Wouldn't it be the other way round?
That species really are younger then currently believed?
The vast majority of species today are believed to be much much older then what a YEC would claim.

2. More species will be found to co-exist at the same time, rather than one evolving into the other.

Not sure what this means either...
What would that mean in practice?

3. There will be an extreme shortage of mistakes in any fossils, and in living forms, due to excellent engineering on the front end.

What do you mean by "mistakes"?

4. It will become more and more obvious that nothing is random.

In what sense?
For example, if I throw 20 dice, will the outcome not be random?

Or is your point that because the forces of physics are fundamentally deterministic, it is theoretically possible to predict exactly the outcome of any dice throw, assuming one has all the required information to plot out the path of each and every dice?

5. The "Junk DNA" concept will be discarded.

When, how and why?

A concrete example.... chickens have inactive (and broken) DNA to build teeth.
Is that not "junk" DNA? Why not?
 
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AV1611VET

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Of course, this doesn't work as a test to provide evidence for creation, since science predicts the same thing...
It satisfies a third of the OP though.
 
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AV1611VET

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No it doesn't. It is not a testable claim unique to creation.
The OP says:
What testable predictions does the creation model make?
It does not say:
What unique testable predictions does the creation model make?
In fact, I don't even see the word "unique" in the OP.

Or any of its synonyms.
 
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AV1611VET

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If you want to move the goalpost and add "unique" to your OP, then I'll change my answer to NOTHING.

Creation isn't science and therefore not scientifically testable.
 
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DogmaHunter

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The OP says:

It does not say:

In fact, I don't even see the word "unique" in the OP.

Or any of its synonyms.

It's implied. When one asks for testable predictions of a model, it is to see if the model can be supported with what data. It goes without saying that that data should then lend credence to that specific model, otherwise the prediction is rather useless.

Otherwise, we could make up nonsense such as this:

"If grass growing pixies exist, then grass should grow.
Grass grows. Therefor....."
 
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DogmaHunter

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If you want to move the goalpost and add "unique" to your OP, then I'll change my answer to NOTHING.

Creation isn't science and therefore not scientifically testable.

No moving goalposts.
At best, I made the mistake of assuming that certain people here would understand what it means to have a model that makes testable predictions.

[Staff edit].
 
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AV1611VET

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It's implied. When one asks for testable predictions of a model, it is to see if the model can be supported with what data.
Then test it, for crying out loud.

Try and mate a rabbit and a mole and see what you get.

The creation model says you can't do it.
 
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AV1611VET

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At best, I made the mistake of assuming that certain people here would understand what it means to have a model that makes testable predictions.
You want a model with testable biological predictions?

Sure.

The creation model predicts you can't mate a giraffe and an elephant and get a viable offspring.

Now ... quit cursing the dark and get out there and see if I'm right.

(On second thought, don't.)
 
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omega2xx

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Actually, it is still your turn.

I'm asking about testable predictions of the creation model.
I'm not asking about your objections or strawmen concerning evolution theory.

For the purpose of this thread, let's just forget everything about evolution.
In fact, let's even pretend as if it has just been disproven. So there, evolution is off the table.

Now, the proposition is the creation model.
What testable predictions does it make?

It doesn't make any predictions. It simply tells what happened.

What it say can't be proved or disproved. What eve side of the fence you are on, you accept hat you believe by faith alone.

When something can' be proved, logic must be used. IMO matter, energy and life can't create themselves out of nothing. A creation, especially one whose processes work the same way all the time, requires not only an omnipotent Creator, but also an Intelligent Designer.
 
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AV1611VET

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It doesn't make any predictions. It simply tells what happened.
I have a feeling this is one of those catch-me-if-you-can goalpost threads.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Then test it, for crying out loud.
Try and mate a rabbit and a mole and see what you get.
The creation model says you can't do it.

Every model says you can't do that.
Which is exactly why it is useless as a test for creationism.
 
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