Today at 03:47 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #25 First off, Evolution and Creation have been at each others throat's with what each other beliefs are on how everything started. At what point did these two "different beliefs or theories" come together?
They were together at the beginning and the person who thought they could work together was Charles Darwin. From
On the Origin of Species:
Fontispiece:
"But with regard to the material world, we can at least go so far as this -- we can perceive that events are brought about not by insulated interpositions of Divine power, exerted in each particular case, but by the establishment of general laws" Whewell: Bridgewater Treatise.
"The only distinct meaning of the word 'natural' is stated, fixed, or settled; since what is natural as much requires and presupposes an intelligent agent to render it so, i.e., to effect it continually or at stated times, as what is supernatural or miraculous does to effect it for once." Butler: Analogy of Revealed Religion
Toward the end of
Origin
"To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual." pg. 449.
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved." C. Darwin, On the Origin of Species, pg 450.
Does it say somewhere in the Bible that God did not create man in his own image?
So? What in evolution says man is not created in God's image? Can't you get to "God's image" as easily thru evolution as anything else? Also, what does "his own image" mean? The Bible is very clear that God is spirit without any particular physical form. Are you trying to tell us that God is a bipedal ape?
And if not how does it fit into God's plan?
Remember, Ikester, that the Hebrews were chosen by God not for what they inherently were, but because
God chose to view them as special. So if God created humans thru evolution and then
chose to view us as special, what's your problem? What, your pride is hurt because it is not something inherent in you but all God's choice? Tough.
How do you explain that when you disagree with what is written that is to call the writer a liar. In other words, God's word is supposed to be based on truths. If someone came up to you and ask that question, how would you be able to answer it without saying God's word lies?
Telling us that God lies is just what creationism does. Remember, if God really did create, then
everything we find via science in the physical universe (creation)
had to be put there by God. All that evidence that shouts "Evolution!" and "Creationism is false!" is put there by God. Now, did God lie to us with that evidence? You say so.
What we are talking about is
not "God's word" but rather
your interpretation of God's word. The simple answer is: "You got the wrong interpretation." As long ago as the 400s, St.Augustine of Hippo realized that a literal interpreation of Genesis was wrong. John Calvin and Martin Luther agreed. So we have your pride again that you think a literal interpretation is correct even in the face of God's Creation and the thought of the most profound theologians in Christianity. Isn't pride a deadly sin?
So to pick and choose what you want to believe from both. Where is the line drawn? What would make you decide to override one side of the story with the other? Is there a basis for this?
Science is open to everyone and the evidence comes directly from God. The Bible was
inspired by God but written by humans. So it is secondhand word of God. But the evidence in the physical universe is firsthand from God. So you place the physical evidence first and change your interpretation of the Bible. Christians have been doing this for centuries. They reinterpreted the passages that they had thought meant a flat earth when the physical evidence showed that interpretation to be wrong. They reinterpreted the passages that seemed to indicate an immovable earth when it was obvious that that intepretation was wrong. They reinterpreted "all the world was taxed" when it was apparent that all the world was
not taxed. This is just one more time. The theological messages of Genesis are unaffected (as far as I can see) by evolution, and isn't it the theological messages that are important?
something that no one could agree totally on?
LOL!! Christians don't totally agree on very much now. After all, there are 20,000 Christian denominations. How much agreement can there be?
And if someone came to you to pray for them or ask you to show them how to get saved what do you do? Talk them out of it? Send them to someone else because you do not believe in that part of the Bible?
Why would this be necessary? What in evolution contradicts the salvation message in the Bible?
And to say that God started the evolution of man through the creation of a monkey, would not you be calling God a monkey?
If you say God directly created humans, are you calling God a human? This objection makes no sense, Ikester. Because God appeared to Moses as a burning bush, is God a burning bush?
According to evolution we evolve into higher beings. So would that say that God is a lower being? A monkey?
First, evoution doesn't say that. Evolution says populations adapt to their environments thru natural selection, getting new designs in the process. There is no 'higher' or 'lower'. I really don't follow your reasoning. Why do you think humans evolving says anything about the nature of God at all? Why should it?
And if God word is supposed to be true, Then to believe that evolution fits right in make it untrue? And if so what parts of the Bible are untrue?
It is
your interpretation that is causing the problems. The theological messages of Genesis work just as well in evolution as they do in the Babylonian science in which they are set.
And believing both sides which side do you believe about when you die?
Evolution says nothing about what happens after death, so where is the conflict?
Does Heaven or Hell fall into the equation? And if so how do you expect to judge for your beliefs and works for God's kingdom?
What does evolution say about Heaven or Hell? What does evolution say about judgement? Nothing for either as far as I can tell. What do you think evolution says on the subject and why?
And if God ask you: Why should I let you into my Heaven? How will you answer?
Didn't Jesus say that the essence of the law was to love your God with all your heart and soul and to love your neighbor as yourself? Didn't Jesus also tell you how to behave toward your fellow human beings as though they were Jesus (feed the hungry, tend the sick, visit those in prison). Now, how does accepting evolution change any of that? Why couldn't you answer the same with accepting evolution as you do now?
I have found the word Creation in God's word. How come Evolution is not in there? And how do you fit that into God's word when it's not mentioned? What words should evolution replace in God's word?
Evolution tells you the
how of creation. It is
you that have decided that "creation" means instantaneous zapping of the present form into existence. Why isn't "evolution" mentioned? Because Genesis was meant to tell you the
who and
why of creation. God's Creation itself was meant to tell you the
how. The how of evolution wasn't important to telling you the who and why.
God's word says: Your either for me or against me. To pick and choose and to change God's word does that make you for him? And how would you define that as being for him?
As I said, "God's word" has been changed before and no one thinks that makes anyone against God. One more time, this isn't about "God's word" but about
your interpretation. Does telling God how He created make you for or against Him? I'd say setting yourself up as God's boss -- as creationists do -- make you against Him.
Is there been a Bible translation written yet that you can read evolution and creation as one that everyone can agree on?
Again, there isn't a Bible translation written yet that
everyone can agree on practically anything!! Remember the Reformation Wars? Lot's of people died because no one could agree on a translation of "this is my body, eat it and remember me". Some thought the bread literally became Jesus's body and others thought it was metaphorical. Which do you believe? Literal? If so, then how do you defend yourself against the charge of cannibalism?
And when we go to Heaven and get our perfect bodies, Do we go back to be monkies?
My guess is you get whatever body God chooses to give to you. Are you going to object if it is the body of a monkey? Perhaps God has a complaint box for you to drop your complaint into.
You seem obsessed with the idea of being a monkey or having a monkey body. Why? Doesn't Christianity teach that it's the soul that is important, not the body?
Now, Ikester, I have answered your questions. I have also asked a lot of my own of you. I would appreciate the courtesy of an answer to my questions.
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