Creation in Public Schools.

[Mike Flynn]

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I am discussing, you hunting for a debate? And why do you reply?

Go back and read my responses, I have answered this question more than once. You have stated that you don't 'care' about it, however. More than that, you are not 'discussing' at all. You are 'stating' your opinion and then 'ignoring' and 'dodging'. You call that 'discussing'?

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

so is that why I am here? Because I care for you?

Obviously that's not what I said, but you chose to misrepresent me anyway (a pet peeve of mine). My point is that your continued presence here indicates that you do care about something in relation to the discussion at hand otherwise you wouldn't continue making meaningless posts here persisting that you are more knowledgeable than the scientific community and simultaneously don't care. I think you care in the sense that you realize that you are in a tiny minority and don't really know what you're talking about but have tied your live or die religious beliefs to misconceptions that you won't even admit you make even when showed otherwise.

or is it you that does not know the concept and comprehension? I know it very clearly. Do you?

You know it very clearly yet you equate evolution to atheism? You know it very clearly yet you equate evolution to abiogenesis? You know it very clearly yet you misrepresent evolutionary biology and dodge all posts that contain data? You know it very clearly yet you clearly don't even know how the scientific method is used or how science works in even a most basic sense? That's hilarious...

 

[MySavior]

To me comprehend means to understand. To you it means to understand your own beliefs and to ignore everything else inclusing facts. I am beginning to copmprehend that, very well.

LOL, this is rich, when you make a claim the burden of prof is on you-NOT us. You want to send me to google as proof to what you say??, yet many others and I have posted numerous links off of the web to support our points and you said they were "meaningless"-USAF it is the SAME internet so why would your articles be any less "meaningless", than ours?-Think about it.

I hope you never get accused of a crime and your defense lawyer has your attitude. LOL

Things are meaningless to those who cannot understand them. When I look at Chinese text it is meaningless, to me. It certainly does not mean the text is without meaning, only that I am not able to understand Chinese.

Lorentz I think usaf feels bad because he is not as smart as the rest of you so he want to fight and show you that he is. Do you see what I mean? He knows he needs to study more and it bugs him and hurts his feelings because everyone here is so smart. I am praying for him that he can stop getting so angry and find peace and time in his life to learn. God Bless all.

 

[MySavior]

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Obviously that's not what I said, but you chose to misrepresent me anyway (a pet peeve of mine). My point is that your continued presence here indicates that you do care about something in relation to the discussion at hand otherwise you wouldn't continue making meaningless posts here persisting that you are more knowledgeable than the scientific community and simultaneously don't care. I think you care in the sense that you realize that you are in a tiny minority and don't really know what you're talking about but have tied your live or die religious beliefs to misconceptions that you won't even admit you make even when showed otherwise.



You know it very clearly yet you equate evolution to atheism? You know it very clearly yet you equate evolution to abiogenesis? You know it very clearly yet you misrepresent evolutionary biology and dodge all posts that contain data? You know it very clearly yet you clearly don't even know how the scientific method is used or how science works in even a most basic sense? That's hilarious...

Like I just told Lorentz I think he is envious that everyone is so smart and not him. He wants you to see him as smart also and accept him as smart. I know he is not as smart as you all but wants to post and have friends. I think he just has a bad attitude and will not admit he need to learn much more. I am praying for him. Maybe we all can?

 

[USAF]

lucaspa









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Science confirms that design is present in biological organisms

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Science only confirms the observations in your physical world Lucapsa, so when Dsdumplin states: “Are you saying God couldn't have created an old earth and put in it everything that science has discovered?” I Believe she would be right.the Bible does not state the age of the earth nor the universe. life isn’t millions of years old. Earth may be.





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Sure it is. It's just a HOW that God created.

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the god of evolution perhaps





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Why should we realize something that the evidence says is not true?

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because the evidence is built upon mere assumption. You wont accept that because you were bred into believing that, and I mean that in an educational way. Your going to deny this all you want Lucaspa, because through assumption a false base was created. Now you’re a pathologist,sorry, "Tissue Engineer" having been taught it and you have no idea why people deny it. Perhaps (all do respect) they see through it







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You personally did not evolve. After all, evolution works on populations. However, your physical form is a product of evolution.

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well do some math. How long has “mans ancestors” and “man” been on this earth, given some Time ‘T’ ? given the offspring, of the first man and woman, what is population at present given their evolution history through ‘T’?









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You actually used data? When I used data at the beginning of this thread, you never used any data back. You retreated to this "evolution and creation are both Faith".

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do you know the Conclusion of that Debate was LorentzHA? Evolution and Creation are both Faith, There is no way in hell your going to change somebody’s mind once it is made.





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Because the data backs me up and my reasoning is sound?

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no, my opinion because your were bred





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Actually, you don't. If you had really seen the website, you would have seen that I am not an M.D. And that I am in the Department of Experimental Pathology, not a "Pathologist". I describe myself as a "tissue engineer", not a pathologist.

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ohh sorry “tissue Engineer”, and I would say your site is confusing because under Education Profile you have listed “graduate Degree “ and “M.D.”, so I would assume your above a masters, and seeing the “M.D.” listed, that’s my first guess. What would you have me assume then?

 

[USAF]

Mike Flynn



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Go back and read my responses, I have answered this question more than once. You have stated that you don't 'care' about it, however. More than that, you are not 'discussing' at all. You are 'stating' your opinion and then 'ignoring' and 'dodging'. You call that 'discussing'?

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yes, that’s discussing, see what you guys are looking for is debate. You cant; stand opinions, well you can’t. Your waiting for me to say something with “””facts””” so you can jump all over it. That’s called awaiting a debate, which is what you guys are doing. See Discussing is simple, it means to discuss, meaning, My belief is Evolution = stupidity. You guys believe evolution = enlightenment

 

[MySavior]

usaf, The way you provoke non-believers! How do you ever expect them to come to Christ? Also some of the folks you attack are believers they are Brothers! This is frightening.

 

[Cantuar]

Well, the last two posts have been provoking believers. Apparently he wants to drive believers away as well as keep nonbelievers out. But some varieties of Christianity are very exclusive, so I suppose it isn't a surprise.

 

[LorentzHA]

My Savior posted something else regarding that it may be a self esteem issue. Good point MySavior!

 

[LorentzHA]

Lorentz I think usaf feels bad because he is not as smart as the rest of you so he want to fight and show you that he is. Do you see what I mean? He knows he needs to study more and it bugs him and hurts his feelings because everyone here is so smart. I am praying for him that he can stop getting so angry and find peace and time in his life to learn. God Bless all.

Yes, I do see what you mean, however, he is going about it the wrong way.

 

[Mike Flynn]

Mike Flynn






. See Discussing is simple, it means to discuss, meaning, My belief is Evolution = stupidity. You guys believe evolution = enlightenment

Oh we all know what you think. But you clearly have no idea what anyone else thinks. IOW, all this proves is that a discussion to you does not involve listening. For example, who said evolution=enlightenment? According to you, I suppose a 'discussion' means ignoring everyone else completely.

 

[lucaspa]

lucaspa

Science confirms that design is present in biological organisms





Science only confirms the observations in your physical world Lucapsa,

Since the biological organisms are in our physical world (you are in the physical world too, USAF), then we can see design. You mean you look at birds and don't see wings designed for flying? You look at fish and don't see fins designed for swimming? What kind of poor engineer are you that you can't reverse engineer and figure out the purpose of designs? The problem is how the design arose. Are biological organisms manufactured artifacts of a deity or is the designer natural selection. The physical world says natural selection.

so when Dsdumplin states

: “Are you saying God couldn't have created an old earth and put in it everything that science has discovered?” I Believe she would be right.the Bible does not state the age of the earth nor the universe. life isn’t millions of years old. Earth may be.

1. Life has been on the earth 3.8 billion years. If you accept the strata and everything that points to an old earth, then the fossils show that life is billions of years old. Can't have it both ways, USAF.
2. Doesn't the Bible give the geneologies back to Adam and wasn't the first people created on the 6th day. If you are a Biblical literalist, then yes, you are stuck with a young earth. If you give up a young earth and drop Biblical literalism, then why would you try to hold out for your absurd position of a very old earth but recent life?

Sure it is. It's just a HOW that God created.

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the god of evolution perhaps

Nice try, USAF. We have already established that it is Biblical literalism and creationism that makes a false god. We are talking about the real God that created the universe.

Why should we realize something that the evidence says is not true?

because the evidence is built upon mere assumption. You wont accept that because you were bred into believing that, and I mean that in an educational way. Your going to deny this all you want Lucaspa, because through assumption a false base was created.

Do you know the difference between an "assumption" and a conclusion? Tell us. Then walk me thru how evolution is an assumption.

You also realize that evidence isn't built on assumption? Evidence is what we observe in the physical universe. Thus the facts by which we conclude evolution happened aren't assumptions.

Now you’re a pathologist,sorry, "Tissue Engineer" having been taught it and you have no idea why people deny it. Perhaps (all do respect) they see through it

actually, now that I am a Tissue Engineer, I have evidence I have generated. If evolution had been false, that evidence could not exist.

Do you understand deductive logic?

You personally did not evolve. After all, evolution works on populations. However, your physical form is a product of evolution.

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well do some math. How long has “mans ancestors” and “man” been on this earth, given some Time ‘T’ ? given the offspring, of the first man and woman, what is population at present given their evolution history through ‘T’?

Ah, the old extrapolation backwards. So you do accept YEC arguments. At last we are starting to get to your beliefs, despite your attempts to hide them.

As an engineer, you must realize the problem with extrapolations. You must realize the assumptions behind them. In this case, the assumption is that human population has always expanded, and has done so at the rate it is doing so over the last 100 years. Is that a valid assumption, USAF? In the wild, USAF, do populations always expand? NO! They are actually held constant. There simply is not enough resources for the population to expand. In recorded human history, disease and starvation, primarily, have held human populations in check. My great-great great grandmother had 5 kids. Only 2 lived to adulthood. My great-great grandmother had 12 kids, of whom only 2 died in childhood. Improved medical care (particularly sanitation) was the difference. The assumption is not valid.

However, thank you. You have given us a perfect illustration of projection. This is a psychological term whereby you take the weakness of your position and say it belongs to the other guy. The population calculations "evidence" are based on nothing but assumptions. So you assume evolution works the same way.

You actually used data? When I used data at the beginning of this thread, you never used any data back. You retreated to this "evolution and creation are both Faith".

do you know the Conclusion of that Debate was LorentzHA? Evolution and Creation are both Faith, There is no way in hell your going to change somebody’s mind once it is made.


Because the data backs me up and my reasoning is sound?

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no, my opinion because your were bred

Projection again. Remember, people did change their minds and switched from creationism to evolution when presented with the evidence. Why wouldn't they switch back? And since you have no idea of what my upbringing was, your opinion is nothing but hot air, isn't it?

 

[lucaspa]

yes, that’s discussing, see what you guys are looking for is debate. You cant; stand opinions,

On the contrary. The atheists and theistic evolutionists respect each other's opinions quite well. When opinions are stated as opinions. You don't. You state yours as facts. Then when we either show you the facts are wrong or ask you to demonstrate the factual nature of your statements, we get this whine.

Vance and Mike Flynn and I have shared opinions back and forth. Neither fully accepts (or completely rejects ) my opinion of the origin and theological meaning of Genesis 1. No big deal. I put it out there mostly to show there is an alternative to literal interpretation. Both have their own alternatives.

Your waiting for me to say something with “””facts””” so you can jump all over it. That’s called awaiting a debate, which is what you guys are doing.[ See Discussing is simple, it means to discuss, meaning, My belief is Evolution = stupidity. You guys believe evolution = enlightenment

And when we ask you to justify your opinion and show that your justifications have no foundations, then you retreat to this. Look, if you want to keep your opinion as dogmatic faith and never change it, then do so. But if you are going to do that, then I suggest that there is no point for you in opening these discussions. Unless you had the opinion that you really could overpower us with the brilliance of your mind, evidence, and reasoning and are now hurt because it didn't work.

I agree with Mike Flynn. Where has anyone in this thread made the equation evolution = enlightenment? That is a belief that you brought in and are now trying to say is ours. We simply state that evolution is the explanation for the diversity of life on the planet. Now, whether that constitutes and "enlightened" position is outside the statement we have made.

 

[lucaspa]

Lorentz I think usaf feels bad because he is not as smart as the rest of you so he want to fight and show you that he is. Do you see what I mean? He knows he needs to study more and it bugs him and hurts his feelings because everyone here is so smart. I am praying for him that he can stop getting so angry and find peace and time in his life to learn. God Bless all.

The more I think about this, the more I agree. I think USAF came in here thinking that his "evidence" and reasoning would sweep all before it. He really thought there was no answer to the "complexity of DNA" argument. He had what he thought was a solid gap to put his Argument from Design into. When that fell apart then the discussion has gone downhill ever since. I predict it's not going to get better. When they start using the old, many times refuted "extrapolate the population backwards" argument for YEC, you know it can't end well.

 

[LorentzHA]

well do some math. How long has “mans ancestors” and “man” been on this earth, given some Time ‘T’ ? given the offspring, of the first man and woman, what is population at present given their evolution history through ‘T’?

This is HILARIOUS!! He says, well do some math. Then he gives this almost elementary school explanation for his logic and assigns "T" to time and thinks he has done some math. My side hurts from laughing. Reading this reminded me of listening to my daughter talking with her friends....she is a little girl, though.

 

[revolutio]

I am certain. If I am so certain, what would I care what you believe? Why?

Excellent point. Now why are you here?

 

[Cantuar]

This is HILARIOUS!! He says, well do some math. Then he gives this almost elementary school explanation for his logic and assigns "T" to time and thinks he has done some math.

Well, it shows a grasp of history that's pretty much equivalent to his grasp of science, so it's at least consistent.

 

[celda]

Does anybody know how accurate the sites with the bible contradictions are, which version of the bible they use, and i would like to know the names of the better ones?

 

[Arikay]

Which site?

 

[celda]

Any site as long as it doesn't post false info and uses the king james version which is the one everyone around here uses.