Creation In hell?

[WithLoveFromAlyssa]

Since God had our lives panned out before we were born, why did he create us if he knew we would reject him and Go to hell?

 

[americanvet]

I believe God gives each of us the choice.

 

[nuttypiglet]

Many will be saved, but if you don't bother to create in the first place, nobody will be saved. You have to go back much much further than the creation of Man anyway. Free will creates problems for God with ALL creations. Even the Angels had problems with it. God could have created nothing and spent an eternity alone. God could have created life with no free will. What would be the good in that? The BIG thing to be destroyed in the lake of fire is DEATH Personally I can't wait. Are you assuming you will go to hell? Hell is not a place. The second death means the spirit is destroyed forever, which will happen to Lucifer. It isn't a place where you spend eternity, you simply won't exist. You could just REPENT.

 

[DennisTate]

Since God had our lives panned out before we were born, why did he create us if he knew we would reject him and Go to hell?

My theory is that Ezekiel 37 rather than being a one time event actually occurs again and again and again and again as many times as is necessary for God to work out as close to universal salvation as can be achieved while still giving us genuine freedom of choice.

Each time that a moment in what we think of as the past is recreated.....and a new and better branch of time is spun off.......this fulfills Ezekiel 37 in at least some ways???!!!

Time rather than being limited to being a straight line actually looks like a menorah!

Universal salvation though is one of those subjects that God apparently did not want everybody to know about too quickly....for obvious reasons??!!

I believe that in our time period the gates are open and now the full truth on this can be revealed!


II Corinthians 12:2-4:
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Howard Storm:
I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. ...."These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."
...
I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart...."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events.// (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

 

[nuttypiglet]

Why do you think that some won't be saved? Yes the bible talks of people burning for eternity etc, but the word for eternity is not what you think it is. It basically means "for as long as it lasts". This is a translation problem because there was no word in english for that particular use of the word eternal. For example, if you read "I lit a bonfire and the smoke rose for an eternity" what would you think? That my bonfire really lasted an eternity? It should read "and the smoke rose for as long as it lasted". I personally believe that the book of life contains ALL humans, from the beginning, Adam and Eve, right through to the last birth before judgement. The book will not contain the fallen angels or evil spirits on the Earth. God throws death into the fire and says that death is no more. How can humans then be killed if death is no more? He is speaking of the physical body being killed, not your soul. Adam and Eve sinned, yet they were promised a resurrection, through a redeemer. Now, if Adam and Eve were forgiven for the original sin, why wouldn't everyone else? Those who follow Jesus are the creme de la creme and will bypass judgement. They will become his bride and rule with him. This gives them a higher rank over others who have no believed, and this ranking system will continue on the new Earth. We should be asking a different question really. Why did God create Angels capable of ego attacks and jealousy? These are the cause of all the problems, not mankind. These are the ones who God is really after for vengeance, not Mankind. We are created in his image, and our ancestors were actually blessed. God would not bless something he doesn't want. Even Noah and his family were blessed, so we still have his blessing. It is important to separate the body from the spirit when reading scripture and determine which one God is speaking of. Those who believe in Jesus when he comes will see their bodies instantly change, they will not see death. Others will, that's the point, but then there is a second resurrection, they will be saved. If they are not going to be saved, then why resurrect them? just leave them there.

 

[DennisTate]

Why do you think that some won't be saved? Yes the bible talks of people burning for eternity etc, but the word for eternity is not what you think it is. It basically means "for as long as it lasts". This is a translation problem because there was no word in english for that particular use of the word eternal. For example, if you read "I lit a bonfire and the smoke rose for an eternity" what would you think? That my bonfire really lasted an eternity? It should read "and the smoke rose for as long as it lasted". I personally believe that the book of life contains ALL humans, from the beginning, Adam and Eve, right through to the last birth before judgement. The book will not contain the fallen angels or evil spirits on the Earth. God throws death into the fire and says that death is no more. How can humans then be killed if death is no more? He is speaking of the physical body being killed, not your soul. Adam and Eve sinned, yet they were promised a resurrection, through a redeemer. Now, if Adam and Eve were forgiven for the original sin, why wouldn't everyone else? Those who follow Jesus are the creme de la creme and will bypass judgement. They will become his bride and rule with him. This gives them a higher rank over others who have no believed, and this ranking system will continue on the new Earth. We should be asking a different question really. Why did God create Angels capable of ego attacks and jealousy? These are the cause of all the problems, not mankind. These are the ones who God is really after for vengeance, not Mankind. We are created in his image, and our ancestors were actually blessed. God would not bless something he doesn't want. Even Noah and his family were blessed, so we still have his blessing. It is important to separate the body from the spirit when reading scripture and determine which one God is speaking of. Those who believe in Jesus when he comes will see their bodies instantly change, they will not see death. Others will, that's the point, but then there is a second resurrection, they will be saved. If they are not going to be saved, then why resurrect them? just leave them there.

Personally, I believe that the near death experience of Dr. George Ritchie does an excellent job of explaining how our soul/spirit can get itself stuck in various hellish states for as long as we choose to be in that state.....but also God is available for when we are finally humble enough to call on him!


George Ritchie - Near-Death Experiences | Near-Death.com

 

[nuttypiglet]

I believe the spirit is part of God himself, which is why souls return to him. The body stays in the ground, but all our concious thoughts and memories are held within God. This is how he knows us so well and how nothing can be hidden from him. It also enables him to put US back into a new body. We are never lost through death, we were, are and will be a part of God himself. We know NDE is not a trick of the mind, thanks to a Cardiologist who studied it over 20 years or more.

 

[nuttypiglet]

I didn't explain my beliefs very well there, let me try again. I believe the human body is nothing more than a covering, a vehicle which the spirit can experience the world through. I believe that the spirit involved is within God, not inside this body. The brain somehow connects the physical world to the spiritual through consciousness. So the real YOU is in God, and you experience everything remotely through the body. If the brain becomes damaged in such a away as to distort or break the connection, we lose memory ability or die. Huge areas of peoples brains have been damaged and yet they still maintain all their memory, and this is because it only needs to be a transmitter/receiver to your spirit where everything is stored. This is why nobody except God can destroy your spirit, because it's in God himself. A blind person will see again after death because when God puts that spirit into a new body (spirit or flesh) they are complete and perfect again. When scientists believe they are getting close to tapping into dreams etc, they are simply looking at the conversation between God and the brain. This is how he can help any individual or give them visions, by sending a signal down the line. So, we can never be totally lost because the real us doesn't exist here.