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Creation and the Big Bang

JYJ

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You said things which is very interesting.

I agree with you. And, I can make argument to demonstrate that this understanding is Biblical. I don't believe my own interpretation. Any understanding must originated from the Scripture. I yet to find support on the highlighted idea.

I am not sure angels have chance to learn more beyond what they already know. However, since satan can learn, other angels might also be able to learn. If we still can learn in the Heaven, that would be very very interesting.



I think it makes a difference that angels are not human. They are legitimate in God's world but with a separate purpose. As for Satan. The earth is the place where humanity learns to overcome adversity. Most generally the polar expression of everything here is the source of the trials. The angel that is Lucifer is appointed by God and serves at God's "pleasure" so to speak. Without this presence the idea of sin would not exist and there would be no need for us to have freedom of choice. I firmly believe that in the end of times for the earth (and earth is not immortal) everyone that has ever lived will be returned to the Father with full forgiveness and blessings. This will include Lucifer since he is doing God's will now. I do not believe in any part of the Father being lost forever. That would not be the hallmark of eternal mercy and forgiveness. Of course we would mis-use that knowledge if we had it so it's better that we hear about hell and so on.

I am beginning to see God in everything and everyone. When I consider a man I try to see his soul for here is the essential part which is immortal. Is there a high soul in a personality which is filled with imperfections? Possibly.

These are the things that I wish I'd have heard when I was a Christian. I had no need to keep hearing that I was a sinner. I already knew that.:crosseo:
 
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KCfromNC

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Forgive me if this sounds a bit bold, but why question the Bible at all? Science has been wrong so many times you cannot count. If you look at the history of science, it has been theology, not empirical evidence that has led us to the modern era. Science may be right about some things, but it should not try to challenge the word of God.

Come on, it's not nice to make fun of honest Christians with a parody this outrageous. For all their failings, certainly none of them believe anything so preposterous.
 
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juvenissun

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I think it makes a difference that angels are not human. They are legitimate in God's world but with a separate purpose. As for Satan. The earth is the place where humanity learns to overcome adversity. Most generally the polar expression of everything here is the source of the trials. The angel that is Lucifer is appointed by God and serves at God's "pleasure" so to speak. Without this presence the idea of sin would not exist and there would be no need for us to have freedom of choice. I firmly believe that in the end of times for the earth (and earth is not immortal) everyone that has ever lived will be returned to the Father with full forgiveness and blessings. This will include Lucifer since he is doing God's will now. I do not believe in any part of the Father being lost forever. That would not be the hallmark of eternal mercy and forgiveness. Of course we would mis-use that knowledge if we had it so it's better that we hear about hell and so on.

I am beginning to see God in everything and everyone. When I consider a man I try to see his soul for here is the essential part which is immortal. Is there a high soul in a personality which is filled with imperfections? Possibly.

These are the things that I wish I'd have heard when I was a Christian. I had no need to keep hearing that I was a sinner. I already knew that.:crosseo:

I like the red text and I object the blued text.

If everyone will be forgiven, then I would go right now and murder someone. That would be some experience I haven't learned.
 
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juvenissun

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Here's some words:

Janie is a horse.

Can you tell me exactly what this means? Does it mean that there is an actual horse named Janie? Or am I talking about a human girl named Janie who happens to be able to run like a horse? Unless I further clarify and tell you how it should be interpreted, you can only rely on the evidence in front of you.

In the case of interpreting Genesis, we have a data mine of scientific evidence that sways many to accept a non-literal interpretation of Genesis -- and what is wrong with that? By saying "challenge the Word of God", are you placing YOUR personal interpretation on the level of God's own word?

Nothing is wrong with that. Except you missed the literal part of the meaning.
 
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JYJ

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I like the red text and I object the blued text.

If everyone will be forgiven, then I would go right now and murder someone. That would be some experience I haven't learned.



My premise is based upon the reality of the immortality of the human soul and the mortality of the body and personality. What the mortal personality does on earth does not escape review after death. Judgment and then restitution are the means of cancellation of that debt. "Punishment" is an earth concept which does not accurately describe judgment and restitution. What is the use of punishment if we may not profit from it by improving? When being judged there is substantial remorse experienced by the subject. "Why did I allow that to happen?" That sort of thing. This, with the knowledge that restitution is to come. The whole of it is both fair and firm. The two souls have an opportunity to meet too. They may endeavor to understand earth circumstances and the reasons that things happen. Remember, please, that these are souls now, not earth personalities which are only an aspect of the bodies which have served their purposes. The forms that restitution will take are a different topic but they have to do with performing service to others in various ways which teach everyone concerned to understand humanity a little better. But evil can never overcome goodness. This is key.

When considering this please focus on the fact that we do not exist severally, or separately by any means. Each of us is a tiny bit of the whole of humanity and it is this larger whole which trends forward always in spite of the many smaller setbacks within. God has created humanity with a specific purpose which cannot be stopped from occurring. View this from the plateau of the soul and not from the level of one person in a body because, again, it is the soul that is the essential human being. All souls are purified before God is finished. Nothing, not even one soul, is ever lost forever. Just like shepherd who leaves his others to go search for the missing one. This is another meaning to that story which is just below the one we are normally shown.

As for punishment there is plenty of opportunity for this while still on earth. Even if the law does not catch the culprit he/she has to live in confusion or fear until they die. Often people reform and turn themselves around so to speak. Here is the purpose of religion and an example of why, in spite of controversies and arguments between us all, they are so valuable. Religions, mine included, teach punishment but always with forgiveness too when true repentance is present. There are those of us who need a little fear before they can move themselves to appreciate right and wrong. Most of humanity is of this sort. For these a firm picture of sure punishment is the best approach. Nothing less would impress them. Pride and willfulness are so strong that they rule some of us all our lives. Hell, then, is an existence separated from God. It is right here on earth in the form of our suffering from realization of our deeds. Some of us do not feel so. But we all pass to heaven in any case and those who have attempted reconciliation while yet on earth find that they have a less strenuous path to walk in restitution.

In the end nothing is lost. Energy and life itself can never be destroyed. Eternity does not exist in heaven. This is because one cannot have eternity unless there is time in the first place and time is a function of matter. Heaven is spirit and is timeless. This is why God knows how we will use our freedom of choice and yet we still have freedom of choice. From our standpoint it doesn't make sense but from where God is everything simply "is". "Before (blank) was, I am..." tells about this.

The apostle Paul speaks of most of these things but not in direct terms. The easier to understand metaphors are best for most of us while we are here. Humanity is of such a nature that we would seek to abuse the system if we understood it just like we do tax laws and social norms in everyday life. And what would result from this? A waste of time and effort. Shall we make God wait for us while we live for ourselves only? The spiritually mature woman and man will not do this because they have risen above the profane. There are few of these.

Is all this Biblical? I say yes. Both the OT, the NT and my own Quran include all of this information in slightly encrypted form. The beauty of all scripture is God's Design which presents lessons within lessons within lessons. What we see in God's Word is dependent upon our abilities to see in the first place. This is why so many disagree.:holy:

All scripture really is the Word of God. As such are we to think that it does not serve us all? To each in his own manner. A single scripture, a single religion a single means to an end is not suitable for a complex and diverse humanity. For social insects it would work for they have no minds and no free will and can never know God. We, on the other hand, are far too complex and God's methods for different groups while on earth must be tailored, each, for the people, the time and the specific requirements. What I attempt to say is that all three of the great Abrahamic religions are of the same source and all will result in the same end. Shall we attempt to be understanding or shall we continue to try getting others to leave their homes and change religions because we have not yet been able to find that Jesus is of them all? Is it not the teachings of this great man that redeem or is it the person of Christ? Consider the person without the teachings and find that little is afforded humanity. Consider the teachings without the person and remain unconvinced of the source. Consider the teachings and know they are from God, through Christ, through many prophets and find the oneness that is presented as a gift to God's children.

Pardon me for being so talkative. Sometimes I get on my soapbox and have to be kicked off before I'll shut up. I feel very strongly about all of this. One last thing. Religions are a thing of the earth. They, too, remain here. In heaven they are not needed. God really has no preference at all. Nor does Christ who is the appointed World Teacher, nor does Jesus who is known to others in the earth by different names in different times.

Peace and Blessings especially to those who make war in the name of God.
 
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