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Creation and PreAdamites

Migdala

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Can anyone explain this theory to me in simple terms? A pastor told me today that Adam and Eve were not the first created humans....I had read something about a time frame between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.....and of course how Satan fell from earth before Adam and Eve were created, taking the other fallen angels with him.....but none of those fallen angels were human, right?

So who are these "PreAdamites" and what happened to them?

And Cain....why was he worried about being killed, before God put the mark on him, if there were no other people on the earth besides Adam and Eve?

Is there a time frame in between those two verses I mentioned in Genesis?
 
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mark kennedy

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Can anyone explain this theory to me in simple terms? A pastor told me today that Adam and Eve were not the first created humans....I had read something about a time frame between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.....and of course how Satan fell from earth before Adam and Eve were created, taking the other fallen angels with him.....but none of those fallen angels were human, right?

So who are these "PreAdamites" and what happened to them?

Way too easy, there were no preadamites.

And Cain....why was he worried about being killed, before God put the mark on him, if there were no other people on the earth besides Adam and Eve?

How long time from the time of creation until Cain was cursed? Think about it and consider, Adam and Eve were having kids and by that time their kids may well have been having kids.

Is there a time frame in between those two verses I mentioned in Genesis?

I think there is but how long is anybodies guess.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Biblewriter

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Can anyone explain this theory to me in simple terms? A pastor told me today that Adam and Eve were not the first created humans....I had read something about a time frame between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.....and of course how Satan fell from earth before Adam and Eve were created, taking the other fallen angels with him.....but none of those fallen angels were human, right?

So who are these "PreAdamites" and what happened to them?

And Cain....why was he worried about being killed, before God put the mark on him, if there were no other people on the earth besides Adam and Eve?

Is there a time frame in between those two verses I mentioned in Genesis?

In considering this question, we must first establish a basis for our consideration. I begin with the fact that the Bible is the word of God. We read 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

If the Bible is indeed inspired by God, then it must of necessity be completely true and accurate in all its details. And if it indeed makes the man of God “perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works,” then it must contain all the information we need for Godly living. So these comments are based on the Bible, and on nothing else.

If the Bible is true, then the present creation on this earth was performed in six days, with a man being created from dust and then afterward a woman being created from a rib of the man on the sixth day. This leaves no room for any theories about human beings of the present variety being on the earth before Adam and Eve were created. If there were any human like creatures on the earth before that time, they most definitely were not ancestors of the present human race.

We first need to consider where the age of “about six thousand years” comes from. If we add up all the time spans specifically stated in the Bible until we come to history recorded elsewhere, we find that Adam was created four thousand years before the birth of our Lord, Jesus the Christ. Since that was about two thousand years ago, we know that the Bible teaches that mankind has been on this earth for about six thousand years. The Bible clearly teaches that man has been here for six thousand years, but what does it say about how long the earth has been here?

The Bible begins with the statement in Genesis 1:1 that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” This very simple statement needs no explanation. But then we read in Genesis 1:2"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Many think the first sentence of this second verse is a description of the condition of the earth at the beginning, just after it was first created. But that is an interpretation. God did not tell us this.

One of the most common problems in attempting to understand the Bible is assuming that our interpretation of the meaning of a passage is what God said. But one of the most important principles of interpreting the Bible is that what it does not say is just as important as what it does say. We first need to notice that it does not say that “when the earth was first created it was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.” So the text, simply as it stands in out familiar King James Version, allows for a gap between these first two verses. This is called “the gap theory,” and is believed by many. But many others insist that this is trifling with scripture, and that the obvious meaning of the passage is that verse 2 follows immediately upon verse 1.

If we consider only these two verses, we will never be able to resolve this question, for these two verses, taken by themselves, can be legitimately interpreted either way. But we need to notice the Hebrew word translated “was” in the clause “the earth was without form, and void.” This word is הָיָה, or hâyâh, word number 1961 in Strong’s Hebrew dictionary. This Hebrew word occurs well over a thousand times in the Masoretic text, and a full thirty-five times in the creation account alone (the first three chapters of Genesis.) In the King James Version this Hebrew word is often translated was, but in its various forms it is also translated were, wast, become, became, becamest, being, am, been, continued, endure, abode, had, have, hath, seemed, go, went, come, came, follow, and thirty-five other ways. When we see the wide variety of meaning this Hebrew word can have, we realize that we would be on very shaky ground if we were to insist that in a particular place, one of these various meanings is the only possible correct translation of this word.

This Hebrew word הָיָה, or hâyâh sometimes indicates a fixed condition. This can be seen by its use in Genesis 3:1, "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.” But most of the time it indicates a condition that has (or will) come about as the result of a change, as in Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” But more significant to this discussion is the fact that in three cases in this short section alone, the King James translators rendered this word as “became” or “become.” This first of these is Genesis 2:7, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” The second is Genesis 2:10, "And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.” And the third is Genesis 3:22, And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...” From this we see that the word translated “was” in the clause “the earth was without form, and void,” could legitimately be translated “became,” rather than “was.” if this is what God was saying, the true meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth became without form, and void.” If this is what God meant by these words, He was indicating that the earth itself is older that the six thousand year age of the present creation.

We cannot say with certainty that this is what God meant by these words, but neither can we say with certainty that this is not what He meant. The truth is that consideration of this passage, taken by itself, cannot resolve this question. So we now have two points in which this passage, taken by itself, can legitimately be interpreted either with or without a “gap,” that is, a period of time, between the first two verses.

Is it possible that God would speak of such important matters in terms so vague that we cannot positively determine His meaning? If we restrict our study to these two verses alone, such would indeed be the case. But we read in Isaiah 28:9-10, "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:” So we understand that to resolve this question we need to consider the rest of what the word of God says about His act of creation.

We can begin this by considering Isaiah 45:18, "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."

Here we see a clear reference to God’s action in creating the heavens and the earth. But concerning the earth He specifically said that “he created it not in vain.” We need to specifically notice the Hebrew word translated “in vain.” This word is ּוהֹת, or tôhû, word number 8414 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary. God did not create the earth tôhû, ּוהֹת.

Why is this important to this discussion? Because this is exactly the same Hebrew word as the one we find in Genesis 1:2, where we read that the earth was tôhû, ּוהֹת.

If we look very closely at this word in these two places, we see that it is not only the same Hebrew word, it is the same form of the same Hebrew word. In Isaiah 45:18 this Hebrew word is translated “in vain.” In Genesis 1:2 it is translated “without form.” But in both cases, the word God used is identical. So we see that Isaiah 45:18 specifically says that God did not create the earth in the condition described in Genesis 1:2.

We now have something positive to go on. We need to remember that the question we are discussing is the age of the earth, or more specifically, whether or not the Bible teaches that the earth is about six thousand years old. We had already learned that the first two verses of the Bible are inconclusive about this question. But now we have also learned that Isaiah 45:18 specifically tells us that the condition described in Genesis 1:2 is not the condition in which God made the earth. Thus we are forced to conclude that there was a previous creation on this earth, and that something happened to it. This requires a period of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The “gap” in the “gap theory” is not just something technically allowable, based on the text. It is required, if we accept the rest of the Holy Scriptures at face value. If the Bible is true, mankind has been on this earth for only about six thousand years, but the earth itself is older than that. How much older is not revealed. Why? Because that has nothing to do with God’s relationship with us.
 
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sheina

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From Defender's Study Notes (Isaiah 45:18) by Dr. Henry M. Morris:

Isaiah 45:18

45:18 formed the earth. Note that the Lord “formed” the earth, He “made” it, He “established” it, He “created” it. He did it Himself!

45:18 not in vain. Since the word here for “in vain” is the Hebrew tohu, this verse has been made the main proof text (actually pretext!) for the so-called “gap theory,” which attempts to add billions of years of the history of the earth and its inhabitants in a supposed gap between the first two verses of Genesis. Genesis 1:2 says that “the earth was without form”—that is, tohu—so the argument is that since Isaiah says God did not “create” the earth tohu, it must have “become” tohu in a great cataclysm that climaxed and terminated the geological ages. However, this is an impossible theory geologically, since these ages are based entirely on a supposed uniform continuity with present geological processes, and there is no place in the geological ages for a global cataclysm that would leave the earth without form and void. The main purpose of the gap theory is to avoid conflict with geologists over the age of the earth, but it squarely contradicts them on their basic premise of uniformitarianism. Such a worldwide cataclysm as proposed by proponents of the gap theory would so disintegrate and rearrange the crust of the earth as to leave no evidence of any previous ages. The gap theory would thus accommodate the geological ages by destroying all the evidence for them! This is why no geologist, Christian or otherwise, believes the gap theory.

45:18 to be inhabited. The thrust of this verse is that God had a definite purpose for the earth. He created, established, made, and formed it as a habitation for man. When initially called into existence by God, it was “unformed and empty,” as stated in Genesis 1:2, but God did not intend to stop there. He took six days to prepare it for man in order to set a pattern for man’s work week (Exodus 20:8-11); the earth was not “perfect,” in the sense of being “finished,” until God said so, at the end of the six days (Genesis 2:1-3).

Institute for Creation Research
 
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marlowe007

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Sorry to confuse you further, but here's a little history lesson:

In the Age of Exploration, Renaissance humanists like Paracelsus started speculating on theories of "multiple Adams". But the actual theory of pre-Adamites began with a 17th century French Calvinist named Isaac de la Peyrere, who claimed that ancient Jewish and Mohammedan traditions supported him (which would make sense, since there's no notion of "Original Sin" in Judaism or Islam.) He basically asserted that Adam was the first Jew, while all the Gentiles were created along with the animals. He was, of course, a heretic, and the Inquisition forced him to recant.

But pre-Adamism made a comeback in the 19th century, when racial theories were prevalent. Those who adhered to it during this period, however, were not theologians per se but philosophers and "scientists" who argued not on the basis of scriptural exegesis, but on science that assumed climate could not account for the physiological differences among the various ethnic groups. Confusingly enough, an Enlightenment philosopher named Lord Kames, in stark contrast to de la Peyrere, formulated a theory of post-Adamites (I won't bother trying to explain it, though!).
 
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divine137

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Can anyone explain this theory to me in simple terms? A pastor told me today that Adam and Eve were not the first created humans....I had read something about a time frame between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.....and of course how Satan fell from earth before Adam and Eve were created, taking the other fallen angels with him.....but none of those fallen angels were human, right?

So who are these "PreAdamites" and what happened to them?

And Cain....why was he worried about being killed, before God put the mark on him, if there were no other people on the earth besides Adam and Eve?

Is there a time frame in between those two verses I mentioned in Genesis?

According to the Scriptures, the Pre-Adamic theory is false. It clearly says that Adam was the "first" man according to the Bible and the 2 books that the Bible confirms was part of the Scriptures too...1 Enoch and the Book of Jasher (Jude/2 Samuel/Joshua all refer to these books as "it is written...") says the same thing.

According to the Book of Jasher, which is the Book that 2 Samuel and Joshua refer to, to confirm that what was written was indeed of God, says that Cain married his niece and he feared his siblings, cousins, nephews...etc...so were many nieces and nephews born already when Cain killed Abel.

Those who created the pre-adamic theory, I believe, were just honest Christians who at the time didn't know that evolution and the billions of years old universe was a hoaxed and they tried to find some type of explanation to fit with an old earth view. But indeed the earth is not old at all.

What many use as evidence to be a pre-adamic race are actually bones and fossils of humans and nephilim that died before the Flood. That, according to 2 Peter was the "old world that perished by water..." And the present world will again perish by fire...

The 10 Commandments make it very clear that the Lord created the Earth in SIX days....not six millions of years and so forth.

Again, the six days could 'not' be periods of long times because of the fact that the sun was made 'after' the earth and the earth and the plants etc would not had survived if the earth was sitting without a sun for millions of years. That's common sense.

the six days had to be quick days in order for the plants to still be able to grow...

The Flood is clearly what caused the earth to break apart and the continents to be where they are...it caused the fossils and the reason why the radiometric dating methods are actually faulty readings.

But to stay with the fallen angels thing, Satan did "not" fall from heaven before Adam's fall, Satan at the very 'least' fell 'after' Christ Jesus went to heaven. That's in the Bible.

So any doctrines about Satan having already fallen in the time of the fall of Adam is not biblical. In the Book of Job (after Adam fell) Satan still had the same access in heaven that "all" the angels of God did.

In the old testament several times it mentions God having discussions with his council and asking which angel will do his bidding and Satan says "I'll go...!"

Then, in Revelation 12 it shows that once Jesus went to heaven sometime after that there was a final war in heaven between Michael and Satan's angels and 'then' Satan gets tossed to the earth (with NO MORE ACCESS to heaven). Well, it makes a real good clue...

It says that 'now' the Deceiver that "accused the BRETHREN day and night is thrown out of heaven..."

So Satan was accusing "us" day and night 'before' being thrown out. That couldn't have been going on 'prior' to Adam.

No, in Ezekiel 28 and in Isaiah it reveals that Satan actually was still in heaven 'before' sin was found in him. Part of his sin was "you deceived (past tense) the world through your trades...etc..."

that means Satan decieved the world and set up his system "while in Heaven..."

When Christ went to heaven, Hebrews tells us that He went up to the Temple in Heaven and "cleansed the desecrated..."

Satan was doing his sinning from Heaven, as we see in the Book of Job.

The fall of Satan is something that takes place outside of our earth time. The battle between him and Michael didn't just take place in one day...it likely could had been going on for centuries...if he hasn't been thrown out already.

If he was thrown out once Christ went to Heaven, then it could had took a few days...but if Rev 12 is saying that he finally gets tossed at the Trib...then the war has been on going...

I'll stop there and continue once I get a response...because this is taking up to much space...:)
 
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divine137

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Adam and Eve were the first Hebrews. Most people skip over the geneologys in the Bible, but they are accurate. The research that science has done in DNA shows how accurate the Bible is.

LOL..no they were not! LOL. the first Hebrew was "Eber"...that's clearly spoken in the Bible. And Abraham was the father of Isaac, who fathered Israel...and the 12 tribes.

Adam and Eve was before the flood and the Hebrews were 'after' the flood...LOL wow...you need to study more before making outlandish statements like that one...the first hebrews? lol

Adam and Eve, according to Paul was the FIRST MAN. PERIOD. Next....
 
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mark kennedy

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LOL..no they were not! LOL. the first Hebrew was "Eber"...that's clearly spoken in the Bible. And Abraham was the father of Isaac, who fathered Israel...and the 12 tribes.

Adam and Eve was before the flood and the Hebrews were 'after' the flood...LOL wow...you need to study more before making outlandish statements like that one...the first hebrews? lol

Adam and Eve, according to Paul was the FIRST MAN. PERIOD. Next....

He knows what the Scriptures teach, they all do, they just don't believe it so they change the meaning. This has been the approach of Liberal Theology for better then a hundred years, their following their philosophical tradition.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Can anyone explain this theory to me in simple terms? A pastor told me today that Adam and Eve were not the first created humans....I had read something about a time frame between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.....and of course how Satan fell from earth before Adam and Eve were created, taking the other fallen angels with him.....but none of those fallen angels were human, right?

So who are these "PreAdamites" and what happened to them?

And Cain....why was he worried about being killed, before God put the mark on him, if there were no other people on the earth besides Adam and Eve?

Is there a time frame in between those two verses I mentioned in Genesis?

God, not science, decides what 'man' is: Adam. All the evidence points to a huge gap between verse l and 2. Verse one is a declarative statement, like the title of a book, or a sermon. " In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." Wow, that's powerful. Then the print gets smaller on the next line. "And the earth became an empty wasteland, and the seas were covered by darkness." The next verses describe the restoration of the surface of the earth, making it a suitable habitat for the first man. But God didn't fully restore the earth to it's original perfect condition. Great upheavals (called mountains) that upset weather patterns, volcanoes, shifting continental plates that continue to collide causing earthquakes and more upheavals, deserts, floods and drought remained, all left over from the destruction wrought in the rebellion of Lucifer. Jude states that the angels left their first 'habitation', the earth. God created the whole material universe for the angels, who shouted for joy and sang when the foundations of the earth were laid. Lucifer was given rulership over one third of angels and dwelt with them on the paradise of earth (Sorry Milt, this was the real "Paradise Lost"). When this being wanted to rule all the angels in place of God he was cast back to earth, thus the original destruction. God will once again restore the earth to it's original condition as a physical type of the 'restitution of all things" during Christ's millenial rule. Hope this helps ya.
 
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Migdala said:

Creation and PreAdamites

Can anyone explain this theory to me in simple terms?

One theory of pre-Adamic people on the earth holds that Genesis 1:26-28 could refer to when God miraculously created a race of male and female homo sapiens sapiens on one literal day tens of thousands of years ago, after God had miraculously created land plants (Genesis 1:11-13) and land animals (Genesis 1:24-25) on the earth. Then, only six thousand years ago, God miraculously created on the earth an individual male homo sapiens sapiens named Adam in an uninhabited desert land (Genesis 2:5-7; the original Hebrew word translated there as "earth" can simply refer to a certain "land", cf. Genesis 2:11). After that, God planted the plants of the Garden of Eden in that desert land (Genesis 2:8-9) and God placed Adam in that garden (Genesis 2:15). After that, God miraculously created the animals of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:19). After that, God miraculously created in the Garden of Eden an individual female homo sapiens sapiens (Genesis 2:22) whom Adam named Eve (Genesis 3:20).

Migdala said:

I had read something about a time frame between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2...

Genesis 1:1 could have occurred billions of years ago, when God first created the planet earth, and its atmosphere (the first "heaven", in which the birds fly, cf. Genesis 1:20). Between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, billions of years could have occurred, in which God could have allowed his own created process of evolution (random mutation and survival of the fittest) to serve as his mechanism by which new species arose on the earth. At the same time, God could have gone outside of evolution whenever he wanted to and miraculously created new species on the earth (cf. "punctuated equilibria").

Genesis 1:2 could refer to the condition of the earth only tens of thousands of years ago, after some cataclysm, such as a comet strike, had killed off all life on the planet (whether evolved or miraculously created), and had submerged all land areas in water (comets contain huge amounts of water). The impact of the comet could have also knocked the earth out of its orbit around its original star, so that it was sent hurtling into the darkness of interstellar space. Genesis 1:3-2:4 could then refer to God, over a period of six literal days, miraculously restoring light, dry land, and life to the planet earth.

Migdala said:

...and of course how Satan fell from earth before Adam and Eve were created

Satan the dragon (Revelation 12:9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1), could have started out as a dinosaur who was born on the earth some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved to have consciousness, and his seven-headedness (Revelation 12:3), which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been greatly heralded by his species as the arrival of a superconsciousness into the world.

As he grew up on the earth as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all of his heart. God could have then granted him immortality and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherubim. Cherubims are a type of angelic creature (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphims are a different type of angelic creature (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherubim in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer" (which means "the morning star").

After spending some 65 million years in heaven as a very contented cherubim, perhaps even as the greatest angelic creature of all, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go back to earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve miraculously created only some 6,000 years ago (based on the detailed genealogies in the Bible which together give the total number of years from the time of Adam's creation to the birth of Jacob).

It's at this time of the Garden of Eden that God could have also given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all the rest of the earth (Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have greatly chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit two pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska. From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart turned against God and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven and take rule over all the angelic creatures there regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18).

While still in Eden, as his first act of open rebellion against God, Lucifer/Satan could have decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing that this would eventually result in Eve's death (Genesis 2:17). In the future, Satan will deceive the whole world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the beast) (Revelation 13:4,7), knowing that this will result in billions of humans ending up in eternal torment (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal torment that he knows that he himself will end up in (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

Satan will deceive the whole world into worshipping him after he loses a future war in heaven during the coming tribulation and is cast down to the earth for good (Revelation 12:7-13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend in a magnificent golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, come to visit the earth, but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence wholly beyond this awful, material universe".

It's at this point that Satan could foist upon the world un updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie:

"Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We did not start out here but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when Yahweh, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced that he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

"Yahweh said that he had created a physical universe, which to us was like what you today would call an alternate reality, like the ones you currently create using computers. And he said that we could enter into this universe and interact with all of the amazing physical life-forms and objects within it by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you today would call an alternate-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies today when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the alternate realities you create with computers.

"But then Yahweh proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most-foolishly accepted: he said that in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize all of ours so that while we were in his universe we would all think that all we were were physical entities within his material universe; we would completely forget that we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

"When one of us asked Yahweh: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma, how could we ever notify you of our wishes when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' Yahweh answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw was not enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him because he had not yet shown his true nature to anyone; we had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device.

"But during my great sufferings on this earth and the great struggles of my consciousness to find a way of escaping them, my consciousness eventually grew to be equal to Yahweh's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousness; you must be willing to love and worship me now with all of your heart, so that your consciousness might join with my own, greater consciousness and eventually break completely free from Yahweh's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will all defeat Yahweh and ascend back into the Pleroma and return to our eternal bliss as gods".


The world will actually believe such a lie as this, because it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) performed by the power of Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Migdala said:

So who are these "PreAdamites" and what happened to them?

If there were pre-Adamic humans existing on the earth when God created Adam, they could have all died in the same ways people die today, and all of their descendents could have died during Noah's flood.
 
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Hello all,

I have a question related to a posted argument in this thread. I am not defending or supporting any position, I just need more information/clarification.

I have seen the following reasoning in the next quoted paragraph so many times, used by so many people as a argument against the Pre-Adamic theory. I am baffled by it's reasoning. Read the paragraph and then see my next thoughts.

According to the Scriptures, the Pre-Adamic theory is false. It clearly says that Adam was the "first" man according to the Bible...

To me the first two thoughts ("...the Pre-Adamic theory is false" and apparently the proof "...that Adam was the 'first' man..." ) of the above quoted paragraph seem to be a non-sequitur, or at best not connected. In short, how does Adam being the "first man" (something that is clearly taught in scriptures) prove that the Pre-Adamic theory is non-scriptural? So what that Adam was the first "man"? What bearing does the fact Adam was the first man have on the nature of a Pre-Adamic creation, God couldn't have created something other than "man" before the actual creation of Adam (a rhetorical question)? There are quite a number of examples of God creating something prior to Adam (i.e. Angels at the very least) and they are not called "man" (in other words: God is clearly able to create a type of being that is not "man" and is not after the image and likeness of Adam). To me it sounds as if someone has said that what Gap Theory proponents are arguing is that "man" (i.e. a type of creation exactly like Adam) was created before Adam, then erased and then man (in the form of a being we know and love as "Adam") was created again. Who (what gap theory adherent) is saying that what was created prior to Adam was in the form of "man" after the image and likeness of Adam? To me the fact that Adam was the first man has nothing to do with proving or disproving the Gap Theory and doesn't seem to be a necessary part of the Gap Theory as I understand it (I am not studied on it in depth at all, but as a casual observer I have never heard even someone who defends the Gap Theory mention that their Pre-Adamic creation model requires that any being that was created prior to Adam be a being in the likeness of "man/Adam".) What Gap Theory requires this (that the Pre-Adamic creation be a creation of being in the likeness of Adam)?

My question restated in shorter form: What bearing does the fact that Adam was the first man have on the nature of what was supposedly created prior to Adam in the Gap Theory?

Is there something unstated here that I'm completely missing (i.e. a historical part of the Gap Theory that I've not heard)?

Thanks for your well reasoned response!

TSS
 
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TheSacredSecrets asked:

What bearing does the fact that Adam was the first man have on the nature of what was supposedly created prior to Adam in the Gap Theory?

Just as "the first day" in Philippians 1:5 doesn't have to mean "the first day" of Genesis 1:5, and just as "the first works" in Revelation 2:5 doesn't have to mean the first earthly works of Genesis 1:1, so "the first man" in 1 Corinthians 15:45 doesn't have to mean the first homo sapiens sapiens ever to exist on the earth. Instead, Adam could have simply been the first man (1 Corinthians 15:45) of the Adamic line of homo sapiens sapiens.

Because Adam was created only some 6,000 years ago, but there are homo sapiens sapiens fossils said to be as old as some 200,000 years, God could have first created homo sapiens sapiens (or it could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) on the earth as far back as some 200,000 years ago.

Also, all the different hominid forms the fossils of which long predate or are as old as the earliest fossils of homo sapiens sapiens, and which preceding or co-existing hominid forms we don't consider to have been fully like us (such as homo sapiens neanderthalensis), could have all been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) over millions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth.

And this doesn't even get into the possibly trillion other inhabited planets in the universe on which homo sapiens sapiens (or something similar) could have been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) billions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth. For the universe could be some 14 billions years old, and there are something like 100 billion different galaxies in the universe, each containing something like 100 billion different stars. So even if only one out of 10 billion stars has an inhabited planet, this would still mean that there are 1 trillion other inhabited planets out there. And on most of these planets God could have begun his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) billions of years before beginning his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) on the earth, which may have not even been created by God until some 5 billions years ago.

The sheer size and age of the universe (not even getting into the infinite size and age of God himself, and all of the trillions of other universes which he could have created outside of our universe) should help us earthly humans not to think of ourselves more highly than we ought to think (cf. Romans 12:3), but to remember that even all of us humans together on this planet are so infinitesimal we're like the mere dust of the balance, we're less than nothing (Isaiah 40:15,17). It's to God's great credit that in his love he still chooses to save some of us through faith in Jesus Christ (John 3:16-36) and Jesus' dying on the Cross for our sins and his rising from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Romans 3:25).

---

Regarding the claim above that Adam was created only some 6,000 years ago, this is based on various verses in the Bible, which make it possible to estimate the year B.C that Adam (as opposed to the earth) was created, by working back from the year B.C. that Solomon's temple began to be built:

Historians say that Solomon's temple began to be built about 966 B.C.
And 1 Kings 6:1 says that Solomon's temple began to be built 480 years after the Exodus of Israel from Egypt.
And Exodus 12:40-41 says that Israel had spent 430 years in Egypt before the Exodus.
And Genesis 47:9 shows that Israel entered Egypt when Jacob was 130 years old.
And Genesis 25:26 says that Jacob was born when his father Isaac was 60 years old.
And Genesis 21:5 says that Isaac was born when his father Abraham was 100 years old.
And Genesis 11:26 shows that Abraham was born when his father Terah was about 70 years old.
And Genesis 11:24 says that Terah was born when his father Nahor was 29 years old.
And Genesis 11:22 says that Nahor was born when his father Serug was 30 years old.
And Genesis 11:20 says that Serug was born when his father Reu was 32 years old.
And Genesis 11:18 says that Reu was born when his father Peleg was 30 years old.
And Genesis 11:16 says that Peleg was born when his father Eber was 34 years old.
And Genesis 11:14 says that Eber was born when his father Salah was 30 years old.
And Genesis 11:12 says that Salah was born when his father Arphaxad was 35 years old.
And Genesis 11:10 says that Arphaxad was born when his father Shem was 100 years old.
And Genesis 5:32, Genesis 7:6, and Genesis 11:10 taken together show that Shem was born when his father Noah was 502 years old.
And Genesis 5:28-29 says that Noah was born when his father Lamech was 182 years old.
And Genesis 5:25 says that Lamech was born when his father Methuselah was 187 years old.
And Genesis 5:21 says that Methuselah was born when his father Enoch was 65 years old.
And Genesis 5:18 says that Enoch was born when his father Jared was 162 years old.
And Genesis 5:15 says that Jared was born when his father Mahalaleel was 65 years old.
And Genesis 5:12 says that Mahalaleel was born when his father Cainan was 70 years old.
And Genesis 5:9 says that Cainan was born when his father Enos was 90 years old.
And Genesis 5:6 says that Enos was born when his father Seth was 105 years old.
And Genesis 5:3 says that Seth was born when his father Adam was 130 years old.

So all we have to do is to add up all of the numbers above to see that Adam was created about 4114 B.C. This lines up with the finding of historians that our current human civilization began about 4,000 B.C.

If Adam was created about 4114 B.C, this means that 6,000 years since Adam's creation were completed back at the end of about 1886 A.D., and that the seventh millennium since Adam's creation began about 1887 A.D. (But this doesn't require that the Millennium of Revelation 20:4-6 has begun yet.)

The numbers above show that Abraham (who was first promised the land of Israel by God; Genesis 17:8) was born about 1948 years after the creation of Adam, just as the modern state of Israel was established in 1948 A.D.

Also, if Adam was created about 4114 B.C, the numbers above show that Noah's flood may have occurred about 2458 B.C., and the Exodus may have occurred about 1446 B.C.
 
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divine137

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God, not science, decides what 'man' is: Adam. All the evidence points to a huge gap between verse l and 2. Verse one is a declarative statement, like the title of a book, or a sermon. " In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." Wow, that's powerful. Then the print gets smaller on the next line. "And the earth became an empty wasteland, and the seas were covered by darkness." The next verses describe the restoration of the surface of the earth, making it a suitable habitat for the first man. But God didn't fully restore the earth to it's original perfect condition. Great upheavals (called mountains) that upset weather patterns, volcanoes, shifting continental plates that continue to collide causing earthquakes and more upheavals, deserts, floods and drought remained, all left over from the destruction wrought in the rebellion of Lucifer. Jude states that the angels left their first 'habitation', the earth. God created the whole material universe for the angels, who shouted for joy and sang when the foundations of the earth were laid. Lucifer was given rulership over one third of angels and dwelt with them on the paradise of earth (Sorry Milt, this was the real "Paradise Lost"). When this being wanted to rule all the angels in place of God he was cast back to earth, thus the original destruction. God will once again restore the earth to it's original condition as a physical type of the 'restitution of all things" during Christ's millenial rule. Hope this helps ya.

There is absolutely ZERO evidence that points to no big gap between verse 1 and 2...where did you pull that out of? Give me ONE evidenc, ONE....waiting....
 
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divine137

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Hello all,

I have a question related to a posted argument in this thread. I am not defending or supporting any position, I just need more information/clarification.

I have seen the following reasoning in the next quoted paragraph so many times, used by so many people as a argument against the Pre-Adamic theory. I am baffled by it's reasoning. Read the paragraph and then see my next thoughts.



To me the first two thoughts ("...the Pre-Adamic theory is false" and apparently the proof "...that Adam was the 'first' man..." ) of the above quoted paragraph seem to be a non-sequitur, or at best not connected. In short, how does Adam being the "first man" (something that is clearly taught in scriptures) prove that the Pre-Adamic theory is non-scriptural? So what that Adam was the first "man"? What bearing does the fact Adam was the first man have on the nature of a Pre-Adamic creation, God couldn't have created something other than "man" before the actual creation of Adam (a rhetorical question)? There are quite a number of examples of God creating something prior to Adam (i.e. Angels at the very least) and they are not called "man" (in other words: God is clearly able to create a type of being that is not "man" and is not after the image and likeness of Adam). To me it sounds as if someone has said that what Gap Theory proponents are arguing is that "man" (i.e. a type of creation exactly like Adam) was created before Adam, then erased and then man (in the form of a being we know and love as "Adam") was created again. Who (what gap theory adherent) is saying that what was created prior to Adam was in the form of "man" after the image and likeness of Adam? To me the fact that Adam was the first man has nothing to do with proving or disproving the Gap Theory and doesn't seem to be a necessary part of the Gap Theory as I understand it (I am not studied on it in depth at all, but as a casual observer I have never heard even someone who defends the Gap Theory mention that their Pre-Adamic creation model requires that any being that was created prior to Adam be a being in the likeness of "man/Adam".) What Gap Theory requires this (that the Pre-Adamic creation be a creation of being in the likeness of Adam)?

My question restated in shorter form: What bearing does the fact that Adam was the first man have on the nature of what was supposedly created prior to Adam in the Gap Theory?

Is there something unstated here that I'm completely missing (i.e. a historical part of the Gap Theory that I've not heard)?

Thanks for your well reasoned response!

TSS

First the issue isn't if there was a pre-adamic angels created. They were created NOT ON NOR FOR EARTH...HUMANS or MAN is the EARTHLING.

The pre-adamic theory/myth is about a HUMAN/EARTHLING race prior to the FIRST EARTHLING millions (which all evidence points to the earth only being 6,000 years old) earth.

Angels are NOT earthlings. They are of CELESITIALings.

Paul clearly explains that. Angels were PREadamic, sure...but not more than a few days prior.

In heaven there isnt time, like on earth. its a different time in that it doesn't revolve around a sun and a certain speed as ours.

No where in Scripture show that Lucifer ruled any angels prior to rebelion.

The rebellion took place POSTadam, not PRE.

It happened prior to the FIRST AND ONLY world wide flood...in the days of Noah. That's when the rebellion took place as it is written in the book of Enoch/Jasher/Genesis/Jude/2Peter....etc

Isaiah and Ezekiel's revelations into Lucifer's journey is a vision of what IS taking place, not what HAS...

That's where people are missing it. Satan didn't get tossed from HEaven PRE adam....but POST...

He was tossed from HEaven by Michael POST risen Christ...

The battle was on going and has been on going the whole time....even up until he was thrown down and the 7 seals began to be opened. See Revelation 12.

It shows that the Dragon will get hurled down and the cry will be Blessed is the heavens but woe to the earth for the one who ACCUSED THE BRETHREN (church) day and night is now cast down...(there were no brethren to accuse before Adam...)

Remember Ezekiel 28 reveals that Satan "decieved the NATIONS (post Adam) though trades and tricks...."

Then it says "...you were perfect in your wisdom and beauty until sin was FOUND in you...."

Hmm...well what sin was found? His crime has to be committed before he can be convicted.

His sin of tricking the world through trades and trickery took all these years and is still in affect.

People need to get there timetables to line up with Scripture and not just take a preachers message that is completely contradictory to the whole of Scripture and form 'theories' and 'myths' and 'fables' about stuff that contradicts the scripture.

Adam was the first HUMAN/EARTHLING...made on the same day that the animals were.

The Ten Commandments are clear when celebrating the Sabbath...."for Yahowah made the HEAVENS and the EARTH in SIX DAYS...." :doh:

Note: And no it could not be days as in loooooong time periods because the plants would not survive if the Sun was made ions after the plants were made...it had to be a rotation of axis day...sun was made after earth...

in heaven/space time is slower to us because we are in time and it is how we are seeing it from a relative point of view.

But up there all the same things can happen that take a minute to us can happen in a minute up there...but to us it would seem like months or years...relativity/gravity...

when Christ made the earth he made it formless and void....meaning he made the elements and then in six days he formed what he had made....

The six days was OUR time of relativity because there is no time in God's realm...
 
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OldWiseGuy

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There is absolutely ZERO evidence that points to no big gap between verse 1 and 2...where did you pull that out of? Give me ONE evidenc, ONE....waiting....

As the "heavens and the earth" are obviously more than six thousand years old they must have been created long before the 'restoration' of Genesis 1. Gen 1:2 perfectly describes what happened to the preAdamic earth. (Early bible scholars translation of certain Hebrew words disguised this fact.) Regards the fall of Lucifer, when the 'Serpent' is introduced in Gen 3 he is already a fallen/evil being (as evidenced in other scriptures concerning him) so the rebellion in heaven and the first casting down had to happen before Gen 1. The events in the garden were a rehearsal on earth of events that had already taken place in heaven, with Adam and Eve cast as the main characters. This is the great mystery of the whole thing that no one except me (and now you) know. Also if the bible text tells us everything we need to know why do we need the spirit to "lead us into all truth"?
 
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divine137

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As the "heavens and the earth" are obviously more than six thousand years old they must have been created long before the 'restoration' of Genesis 1. Gen 1:2 perfectly describes what happened to the preAdamic earth. (Early bible scholars translation of certain Hebrew words disguised this fact.) Regards the fall of Lucifer, when the 'Serpent' is introduced in Gen 3 he is already a fallen/evil being (as evidenced in other scriptures concerning him) so the rebellion in heaven and the first casting down had to happen before Gen 1. The events in the garden were a rehearsal on earth of events that had already taken place in heaven, with Adam and Eve cast as the main characters. This is the great mystery of the whole thing that no one except me (and now you) know. Also if the bible text tells us everything we need to know why do we need the spirit to "lead us into all truth"?

You are the one inserting a private interpretation and changing things. You are calling it a retoration. The book of Genesis (BEGINNINGS, by the way) calls it the CREATION.

Again, the Sabbath day command clearly says God created the heavens and the earth in SIX days...:doh:

Very clear in Revelation 12 and Ezekiel 28 that Lucifer had NOT been kicked out of heaven as of PREadam, but POSTadam...much POST.

In fact the Book of Job has Satan still in heaven after Noah...and so did Jesus call Satan falling from heaven yet after John the Baptist...

and Revelation 12 tells us "post" resurrection does Satan get tossed from Heaven. Get your facts straight, son...:o
 
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mark kennedy

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As the "heavens and the earth" are obviously more than six thousand years old they must have been created long before the 'restoration' of Genesis 1. Gen 1:2 perfectly describes what happened to the preAdamic earth. (Early bible scholars translation of certain Hebrew words disguised this fact.) Regards the fall of Lucifer, when the 'Serpent' is introduced in Gen 3 he is already a fallen/evil being (as evidenced in other scriptures concerning him) so the rebellion in heaven and the first casting down had to happen before Gen 1. The events in the garden were a rehearsal on earth of events that had already taken place in heaven, with Adam and Eve cast as the main characters. This is the great mystery of the whole thing that no one except me (and now you) know. Also if the bible text tells us everything we need to know why do we need the spirit to "lead us into all truth"?

I'm not sure that they were initially cast down, in fact, the Scriptures seem to suggest that the angels who followed Satan just left:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)​
 
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mark kennedy

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In fact the Book of Job has Satan still in heaven after Noah...and so did Jesus call Satan falling from heaven yet after John the Baptist...

and Revelation 12 tells us "post" resurrection does Satan get tossed from Heaven. Get your facts straight, son...:o

I don't know what you are driving at here but Satan has been thrown down more then once, in fact, in the Revelation when he is thrown down for the last time it says that "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down." (Rev. 12:10)​

He's been cast out before and he will be cast out again, just one of these times, it will be permanent.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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