Creation and eden

[JohnJones]

Doctrine is to religion as theory is to science.

WRONG: Doctrine is to old English as teaching is to modern English. Haven't you ever wondered why in POLITICS they speak of the Monroe Doctrine, the Bush Doctrine, the Reagan Doctrine? Doctrine means teaching. BTW, the word "theory" is also used in religion, as in Penal Atonement THEORY, Moral Influence Atonement THEORY, THEORY of Predestination, etc.

BTW, it is necessary for Christ to have a literal lineage back to David, Abraham, and even Adam through Eve. God made promises to David and Abraham along these lines, and God told Adam and Eve that the seed of the woman (Eve implied) would crush the serpent's head. If Adam and Eve did not actually exist, then everything implodes. But, regardless, no matter what unbelievers may say, Adam and Eve did exist as literal human beings created directly by God without any evilution.

If there is no literal Old Adam, why should we believe that the New Adam is literal? Why not just make everything figurative? "God's just figurative. Heaven's just figurative. You are just figurative. Sin is just figurative." Ethos is right; genealogies are literal. Otherwise, maybe we're all just trapped in a matrix waiting for the plug to be pulled after we take the blue pill...or is it the green one...hmmm...not quite sure, but I know you're sposed to follow the white rabbit.

GuyA: "Jesus was (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli...the son of Adam, the son of God."
GuyB: "Hey, you can't say that, cuz Adam's just figurative!"
GuyA: "Why start the figurativeness with Adam? Why not make God figurative?"
GuyB: "Shut up!"

 

[PaladinValer]

1. Fallacy of the Slipery Slope - One symbolism doesn't lead to the whole being symbolic

2. Fallacy of Equivocation - Doctrine in its secular meaning, not in its religious

3. Fallacy of Ad Hominim - The last snippet

 

[ethos]

edited to remove deleted post from JohnJones

I'm not sure I could go that far JohnJones, but you do make a point. Our faith has to start somewhere, why not in Gensis. I believe that there are many true Christains that are falling victim to the lie, remember what it says in Revelation; except those days be shortened that even the very elect would be decieved. We need to quote scripture with the love of Christ in our hearts, lest we drive others away. I understand that it is difficult when we feel attacked, I myself react poorly to such treatment. It is a shame that we Christains allow Satan to steal our fellowship because we find cause to dissagree over these issues. Anyway, may God bless all of us with more of his love for one another.

 

[herev]

closed for review and warnings to be issued

 

[herev]

thread cleaned. Please, if yoiu are not familiar with the rules of this forum, read them before posting. We will not state or imply that someone else is NOT a Christian because we simply disagree with them
thanks

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Since so many YEC posters are sadly restricted from saying what they truly think about non-YEC Christians (scoffers and faithless luke-warm backsliders that we are), can I propose, semi-seriously, that they should be allowed to say what they really think?

As long as, of course, those whose Christianity they freely deride be allowed to administer the flaming said more enthusiastic YECs will thereby so richly deserve?

This place would be a lot livelier if folk weren't hiding their real feelings behind the rules.

Or, more seriously, if that's what some YECs think of their fellow Christians I think we should know about it - see 'em in their true colours.

 

[TwinCrier]

Since so many YEC posters are sadly restricted from saying what they truly think about non-YEC Christians (scoffers and faithless luke-warm backsliders that we are), can I propose, semi-seriously, that they should be allowed to say what they really think?

As long as, of course, those whose Christianity they freely deride be allowed to administer the flaming said more enthusiastic YECs will thereby so richly deserve?

This place would be a lot livelier if folk weren't hiding their real feelings behind the rules.

Or, more seriously, if that's what some YECs think of their fellow Christians I think we should know about it - see 'em in their true colours.

I think that is an excellent idea myself. This entire site has gotten overboard on the political correctness. We must be so very careful to choose our words, it really impedes the thought process when we must repeatedly return to our posts to shange the word foolish to unwise, or evil to synacle, etc. When I am requested to edit a post I simply to to the thesaurus to find a more PC word that means the same thing. It's such a bother. Is it really any secret that we all think the opposition is wrong???

 

[PaladinValer]

TwinCrier, you missed Karl's point.

Karl, as much as that would give TEs the chance to show themselves to be what they are more like and give the mods to see exactly that, I don't think it would be a good idea.

Why? Because it would go out of hand, a mod will step in, and a lot of people will probably be given temporary bans for their numerous abuses, which will turn this forum much more one-sided than ever before.

 

[TwinCrier]

TwinCrier, you missed Karl's point.

Karl, as much as that would give TEs the chance to show themselves to be what they are more like and give the mods to see exactly that, I don't think it would be a good idea.

Why? Because it would go out of hand, a mod will step in, and a lot of people will probably be given temporary bans for their numerous abuses, which will turn this forum much more one-sided than ever before.

Which side do you believe that will be? I've been told that the moderation of this forum is fair and balanced and that the mods are equally divided between YEC and TE philosophy.

 

[Vance]

I really don't think Karl's idea would effect the TE posts very much at all.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The other Christian board to which I heavily contribute has far fewer rules about what can and cannot be said - essentially, if it's legal, even if you have to use - horror - naughty words! - you can say it. Personal attacks are banned in the main debate space, but posts are never deleted or edited for this - the offender is publically warned on the thread and everyone knows that this behaviour has not gone unnoticed. Apologies are demanded, and received.

But posters must be willing to put up with the consequences. And there's only a two minute edit window. Quid scripsi, scripsi, as Pilate said.

The result is that debate is open, honest, sometimes heated, but actually mutually respectful in the end. There is no second guessing whether moderators are biased, whether they're dealing with complaints, and so on. Everyone knows where they stand.

And if someone really cheeses you off, rather than derail threads there is a seperate forum to have it out properly, where the rules are laxer, personal attacks given and received, and this makes it work. I've "called to Hell" (Hell is the name of the "hot" board) a couple of people in my time. It's generally a learning experience for the callee, who tends to end up understanding exactly why he's arised the ire of the caller.

Now, CF has a slightly different ethos and feel to the board to which I refer, and to which I will not paste a link in open forum because I don't want a hoard of CF's more - erm - enthusiastic - posters swamping and ruining it. But I think CF - especially in heated areas like C/E - could do with taking a leaf out of their book. If Mhess wants to tell me I'm Satan incarnate, well, I'm a big boy, and can deal with him. I'd rather know what he really felt, and go ten (metaphorical) rounds than play "you're trying to get me to break the rules" "why don't you say what you think" until the cows come home.

It makes

 

[theotherguy]

This teaches me to not look for a week!! I was expecting alot more people to say guided evolution, literal garden. I agree though, I can't understand whats inked the mods off enough to close the thread.

 

[TwinCrier]

Hard to tell. The rules at cf are so incredibly vague and constantly changing.