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Creating a New Nation! The New C.S.A. (2)

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TheNewWorldMan

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Wrong.

However, I would use FaithGuardian as minister of Propaganda if he wasn't so raging left. He posts like he's frothing at the mouth. He is a good propaganda artist for the left. Too bad we can't get him to come to his senses.

So you admit you'd need a Minster of Propaganda then? Fine--we expected no better--but when you find someone willing to sell his soul and join your Fourth Reich, don't be so transparent and call him "Minister of Propaganda." "Minster of Truth" is a far more catchy job title.

Since this is a Christian forum, you'll likely find few takers. You might try recruiting here; you're likely to find many more like-minded individuals.
 
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Nathan Poe

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Wrong.

However, I would use FaithGuardian as minister of Propaganda if he wasn't so raging left. He posts like he's frothing at the mouth. He is a good propaganda artist for the left. Too bad we can't get him to come to his senses.

I'd use Poe as official literary critic if he got saved. But that doesn't seem too likely. I can pray though! :amen:

Think about it.

If I don't get saved, your C.S.A. will hang me.

Fortunately, I can fake it -- fooling the C.S.A. thugs won't be too much of a challenge.

Then I can easily take that job as literary critic -- which gives me the opportunity to help dismantle the C.S.A. from the inside.
 
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Nathan Poe

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Come on New World Man. Weak.

You should know better than to post something this ridiculous.

The New C.S.A. would be nothing like nazi germany. Nothing.

Aside from a lot of crucifixes all over the place, what exactly would be the difference?

We would have good loving people who wanted to Praise God. We would be a loving good kind nation.

A nation that hangs heretics in the town square is neither loving, good, nor kind.

We just wouldn't have the crime the U.S.A. has. We would be almost crime free.

With the Bible as the basis of your law, the number of crimes on the books would rise exponentially from what the USA has now.

More laws = more lawbreakers. It's inevitable.

Good place to live.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

GOTT MITT UNS.
 
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ShieldOFaith

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This C.S.A

It sounds exactly like the book I'm reading at the moment.



http://www.bookrags.com/notes/hmt/SUM.htm

SOF, is this anything like what you have in mind for women.

NO.

Maybe you should have read some of this thread. The New C.S.A. would be a good Christian nation. The women would be loving kind Christian women. There would be no insane "Hand Maids Tale" filth there. You are reading too many left-wing propaganda books.

Think the Amish with right-wing tendencies.

SOLA SCRIPTURA.
 
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MacCoyle

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Maybe you should have read some of this thread. The New C.S.A. would be a good Christian nation. The women would be loving kind Christian women. There would be no insane "Hand Maids Tale" filth there. You are reading too many left-wing propaganda books.


They are not loving if they support the hanging of heritics.
 
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TheNewWorldMan

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NO.

Maybe you should have read some of this thread. The New C.S.A. would be a good Christian nation. The women would be loving kind Christian women. There would be no insane "Hand Maids Tale" filth there. You are reading too many left-wing propaganda books.

So are you saying the book itself is left-wing propaganda? Have you ever actually read The Handmaid's Tale? Or did you start to read it and get the same case of the willies communists get when reading Animal Farm and throw it out the window?

Think the Amish with right-wing tendencies.

SOLA SCRIPTURA.

Somehow I think "barefoot and pregnant" is what you have in mind.
 
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ShieldOFaith

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They are not loving if they support the hanging of heritics.

Please show me where I said we'd hang heretics. I said we would have the death penalty. I said that we'd hang murderers, rapists, kidnappers, homosexuals, abortionists; nothing about heretics.

Please get it right.

SOLA GRATIA.
 
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Nathan Poe

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NO.

Maybe you should have read some of this thread. The New C.S.A. would be a good Christian nation. The women would be loving kind Christian women. There would be no insane "Hand Maids Tale" filth there. You are reading too many left-wing propaganda books.

Think the Amish with right-wing tendencies.

SOLA SCRIPTURA.

How many heretics do the Amish hang in a typical week?
 
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Nathan Poe

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Please show me where I said we'd hang heretics. I said we would have the death penalty. I said that we'd hang murderers, rapists, kidnappers, homosexuals, abortionists; nothing about heretics.

Please get it right.

SOLA GRATIA.

You're the one who needs to get it right -- you said you'd base your laws on the Bible.

The Bible explicitly says to put Heretics to death.

Is your allegedly Christian nation going to go all limp-wristed when it comes to obeying ALMIGHTY GOD?
 
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Nathan Poe

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So are you saying the book itself is left-wing propaganda? Have you ever actually read The Handmaid's Tale? Or did you start to read it and get the same case of the willies communists get when reading Animal Farm and throw it out the window?

You don't really think people are going to actually read books (except for the Bible -- Authorized SOF version) in the C.S.A., do you?

Anything that threatens SoF's authority would go straight into the bonfire.
 
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ShieldOFaith

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ShieldOFaith, before you quote verses from Leviticus that prescribe stoning for men sleeping with men, whitches, adulterers etc., take a look at what Apostle Paul has to say concerning the laws of Leviticus.

Galatians 3:19-29:

"What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law."

Alleluia! Soli Christus Gloria!

You are getting Salvation confused with teachings on civil law.

No one is ever saved by the law. I fully understand that. I am not teaching that. Never have, never will. Remember I am a Calvinist. I fully understand SOLA GRATIA!!!

Sola Gratia Ministries

Sola Gratia Ministries exists to (1) spread the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to a lost world (Matt 28:19; Lk 24:47), (2) provide a ready resource for those who feel a burden to study God in a deep and personal way in order to come to a more mature understanding of the things of God (Eph 4:14-15; Titus 2:1; Heb 5:12-14), and to (3) provide a ready defense of the historic orthodox Christian faith (1 Pet 3:15). These goals are accomplished both individually in the daily personal lives of our staff members, and corporately as we gather together to utilize the medium of the Internet to impact the world at large. http://www.solagratia.org/

===================================================

Suom, here is something for you to chew on and learn:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]17 "And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. --Exodus 21

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God"-- 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' " --Matthew 15

JESUS REAFFIRMS THE DEATH PENALTY FOR DELINQUENT CHILDREN!!!

Once again, I am right. The government has the right to exercise Capital Punishment!!! :thumbsup:

SOLA GRATIA!!!

===========================

Still haven't heard from you Suom. What's up?
[/FONT]
 
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ShieldOFaith

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SoF >> you still havnt answered my question with a direct yes or no, pertaining to whether or not a widowed woan would be forced to marry her brothe rin law as comanded by OT law.

VII. THE APPLICATION OF GOD'S LAW TO CIVIL JUSTICE
In order to more fully comprehend the issue at hand, it is important to understand the historical divisions of God's law. To aid our understanding, God's law has been divided into three categories: moral, civil, and ceremonial. This division is found in our Westminster Confession, chapter 19. The moral law is summarized in the 10 commandments and are, without question, applicable to the believer today (see WCF 19:2,5,6,7).




The ceremonial law was designed to be applied only in the shadows of the Old Covenant, since those bloody ceremonies served as sign posts pointing to the One whose blood would take away sin. The bloody rituals of the Old Covenant have been replaced by bloodless signs of baptism and the Lord's Supper in the New Covenant. The bloody signs of the Old Covenant pointed to a savior to come. The bloodless signs of the New Covenant point back to the savior who has come. It would not be accurate, however, to say that these ceremonial laws are abolished. They still teach us the principle that God requires a substitutionary blood sacrifice in order to forgive sins. For example, if you are traveling from Monroe to Jackson on I-20, the signs informing you of the number of miles to Jackson are very helpful. Once you arrive in Jackson, however, you no longer need those signs. They have served their purpose. They still apply to those traveling to Jackson and they still serve to remind you of where you were and the distance you have traveled.



The third category of the law is the judicial category and this is where the bulk of the controversy lies. The question is as follows: Are the judicial and penal sanctions in the law of Moses applicable to the Civil Magistrate today? The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 19:4 states: "To them (Israel) also as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws which expired together with the state of that people; not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

Although this statement from our Confession seems hopelessly confusing, a bit of careful thinking should clear the fog. First, it CANNOT mean that it is God's intent for the judicial law not to be applied at all. This would mean that the State is not under God in any way and implies that the Bible has nothing to say at all about penal justice. This is absolutely unconscionable and I cannot understand how any Christian could advocate such a monstrous position.

Besides, this interpretation of 19:4 is radically inconsistent with the Westminster Standards in other places. In the original version of the WCF, chapter 23, pertaining to the Civil Magistrate, one of the duties outlined by the Westminster Divines for the Civil Magistrate was that he is responsible to see that "all blasphemies and heresies be suppressed."

Although this provision was deleted in the late 1700's in the American version of the WCF, it is interesting to note that WLC question 108 (citing Deut. 7:5) was left intact. "The duties required in the Second Commandment are...disapproving, detesting, opposing all false worship; and according to one's place and calling, removing it and all monuments of idolatry."

There is an interesting historical vignette helpful to our discussion on the relationship between the Westminster Confession and Theonomy. According to the book, Minutes of the Sessions of the Westminster Assembly, p. 211, discussing the debate on Chapter 20, Of Christian Liberty and the Liberty of Conscience, the wording originally passed by the Assembly was "under the gospel consists, especially in freedom from the guilt and power of sin...from the ceremonial and judicial law..." The phrase: "freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law was moved to a point later in the section. For the purpose of our discussion, however, the important point is that any mention of being free from the judicial law was excised altogether and never appeared in the WCF. (Thanks to Bill Anderson for this information). This means, that as a result of the debate at the Assembly, the Divines determined that the Christian was not free from the claims of the judicial law!

There is also a "theonomic flavor" in Larger Catechism, question 191, which asks: "What do we pray for in the second petition?

Part of the answer reads: "...the Church furnished with all gospel officers and ordinances, purged from corruption, countenanced and maintained by the civil magistrate: that the ordinances of Christ be purely dispensed... Thus, the Civil Magistrate has a role in protecting the true Church and keeping her pure. Reformed Presbyterians opposed to theonomy, must, in order to maintain integrity, take exceptions to these provisions in our Standards.

:wave: NOW PAY REAL CLOSE ATTENTION HERE:

Secondly, if the judicial laws no longer apply in any way, how could any civil magistrate do his duty according to Romans 13? Romans 13:4 teaches us that it is the duty of the Civil Magistrate to be an avenger of God's wrath on the one who practices evil. How is a Civil Magistrate to carry out this duty without an absolute standard of what is good and evil? Without biblical judicial law, it is up to the magistrate himself to determine what is good or evil. The magistrate or legislative body must then arbitrarily determine the punishment for criminal behavior. Thus, King James I of England applied the death penalty for pickpocketing. An abandonment of theonomy leads to arbitrariness, tyranny and uneven punishment. Although Old Testament law has an unjustified reputation of being harsh, a theonomic ethic actually serves to protect citizens against tyrants run amuck. Thirdly, Christians must remember who wrote the judicial laws. They come from the mind of a perfectly good and just God.

God is perfectly fair. An abandonment of theonomy implies that man is wiser than God. It implies that God does not know what He is doing when it comes to civil law. Does any Christian really believe that better and more just laws can come from the minds of sinful, finite, fallen men? How absurd!! Christians who detest theonomy must understand that they are arguing against God.

Theonomists did not write those civil laws, God wrote each one of them. Theonomists believe the laws of God are wiser than men and at least are attempting to believe them and apply them.

The Westminster Divines employed the terms "general equity" because they understood that the Bible was written to apply to all cultures in all times. The case laws provide man with principles of justice that can be applied to all nations in all epochs. For example, Deuteronomy 22:8 requires a parapet to be built around the roof of a home. The theonomic position does NOT maintain that all houses today must have a guard rail constructed on the roof. We look for the general equity of the law. What is God teaching us in this statute? The general equity is a principle of safety. There are many modern applications, such as a requirement to build a fence around a swimming pool, lest a child wander in and drown. If someone owned a house with a flat roof and he entertained guests on the roof, the general equity would be, in that case, a literal application of the law.

To those who deny that the principles of the Old Testament civil code apply today, there is a question that must be answered. With what do you plan to replace God's law? Are the Republicans and Democrats more competent than the Almighty to draft just and righteous laws? Is fallen man better equipped than God to write laws which restrain crime and more efficiently govern people?
--
Pastor T. Mark Duncan

Read the above first.

Ok, now what do you think my answer would be?
 
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ShieldOFaith

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[bible]Exodus 22:20[/bible]

[bible]Deuteronomy 13:1-10[/bible]

Let me know if there are any other Biblical laws I can educate you on... :thumbsup:

The first Scripture you quote is talking about Idol worship; not heretics.

The Second is speaking on False Prophets and Idolaters.

Here is the New Testament speaking on what we would consider someone who is not holding to sound doctrine or what we may consider a "Heretic".

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior; 4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you-- [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict. --Titus 1

You are confusing False Prophets with "heretics".

SOLA SCRIPTURA.
[/FONT]
 
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SallyNow

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NO.

Maybe you should have read some of this thread. The New C.S.A. would be a good Christian nation. The women would be loving kind Christian women. There would be no insane "Hand Maids Tale" filth there. You are reading too many left-wing propaganda books.

Think the Amish with right-wing tendencies.

SOLA SCRIPTURA.
The Amish would probably be quite insulted to be compared to the C.S.A. They are not in the habit of using the death penalty.

Also, you still haven't answered my questions from way back when... they can be found earlier in the thread here here
here and here

Have you ever read The Handmaid's Tale? It is a warning about many of the ideas that the hypothetical C.S.A are founded on.

Perhaps you have been reading... well, I don't know what you've been reading, but the Amish are not a violent people. They don't put people to death. They do have people leave the Amish community, but they do not, in any way, put them to death. Here are some Amish websites. Perhaps the Amish are a little too left-wing for you, though... there is nothing about putting people to death; instead, they shun offending members... a much more peaceful system than anything mentioned about the C.S.A.

The Amish would probably object strongly to the government controls and the violence that the laws of the hypothetical C.S.A is based on.

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml
http://www.religioustolerance.org/amish.htm
http://www.amishcenter.com/index.shtml

Notice that the Amish give a chance for their children to learn more about the rest of society; they do not force them the choice of staying or risking being killed by the state.
 
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