Covid - Two Paths

[com7fy8]

How about the study that reported 95% of ppl over 65 put on respirators for covid in NY died? That's a death machine. Any experienced nurse knows that a respirator plus sedatives on an oldie results in almost certain death.

Well, the ones you can relate with might be telling you what you want to hear.

I can see it going different ways. If they do a good job of not putting people on ventilators unnecessarily, then the ones who go on likely are very likely to die anyway. It depends on how well, then, the I.C.U. pulmonologist evaluates, I would say.

But . . . in case . . . you have talked with nurses who are pals with your way of seeing things . . . this might effect how you see things.

genuinely frail or sick ppl) stay out of the way.

I would say this is a good idea, in any case. Instead of saying they are saving lives by not working, simply keep vulnerable people safe.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Well, the ones you can relate with might be telling you what you want to hear.

I can see it going different ways. If they do a good job of not putting people on ventilators unnecessarily, then the ones who go on likely are very likely to die anyway. It depends on how well, then, the I.C.U. pulmonologist evaluates, I would say.

But . . . in case . . . you have talked with nurses who are pals with your way of seeing things . . . this might effect how you see things.

Telling me what I want to hear? 95% of patients over 65 died under the 'treatment'. Talk about defending the indefensible.

I would say this is a good idea, in any case. Instead of saying they are saving lives by not working, simply keep vulnerable people safe.

Yes, sounds good. But equally, it should be their choice. If an old sick person wants her son to visit her, and he has a covid diagnosis, if he's not coughing on anyone else, why not? They should be free to make their own private arrangement.

This alleged virus isn't of 'plague proportions', no matter what the fear campaigners try to tell you. To put it in context, if 650k ppl have died worldwide this year from it, over 4 million have already died of hunger. On their best numbers, it's still just a bad flu.

 

[com7fy8]

I think you have it all back to front and upside down friend. Perhaps it will help for you to read John MacArthur's statement:
Christ, not Caesar, Is Head of the Church

I took a look. It appears he has a large congregation and they were going to refuse to let the state dictate if they could gather for worship.

But did you read the "Addendum"? It seems "the elders" decided to stop having crowd services. But they are concerned that this thing could go on much longer than they find they were being told it would. Plus, they say there weren't the deaths projected.

I think the amount of deaths has varied, from area to area. If they were lower than expected, that could be because of the restrictions.

Now, they could use John's church as a Guinea piggy, I suppose. I personally would not recommend that.

Maybe we've already had a Guinea pig demonstration > a pastor with heart issues insisted on having crowd services, and he died of the "corvid".

And John looks like a senior.

The addendum seems to be saying they were told wrong, about how long the restrictions would continue, and they seem to be saying this situation has been wrecking church function and unity.

But in genuinely persecuted church areas, I have been told, Christianity grows.

So, this COVID-19 reaction situation could be exposing deep weaknesses and problems of cultural church and mass-gathering methods of ministry.

Our Apostle Paul went to people and ministered to them, and then those people increased in obedience in the absence of Paul > Philippians 2:12. '

And the Thessalonians became able to minister God's word so Paul did not need to say anything if he arrived where the Thessalonians had been before Paul got there.

So, in case a church can not function without a pulpit figurehead . . . the church could be its own main problem. And what do people do when they get exposed > blame someone else.

I would say God has His church growing now, not being decided by what the world is doing.

Thank you for your time to comment.

 

[com7fy8]

Telling me what I want to hear? 95% of patients over 65 died under the 'treatment'. Talk about defending the indefensible.

Like I offer > it depends on how much hope a patient has, if the person is not ventilated. That takes a pulmonologist to evaluate that . . . if it can be done. So, that would effect how to evaluate the statistics. So, I am not defending, but offering that numbers alone do not tell us enough.

For illustration > if all were sure to die without ventilation, that could mean they kept five percent alive, who would have died. So, we need expert, if possible, stats about that aspect.

So, I notice you haven't given us the link to this. Maybe you can. I can try, myself >

Some Doctors Moving Away From Ventilators for Virus Patients – NBC New York

Going from this report . . . numbers of deaths is not what tells us what we need to do. Among other things > it seems ones say it makes a difference when you start a person on a ventilator. If you try everything else until he or she is almost dead, then put the person on the ventilator, may be of course the person is going to die. And it seems the article is saying not all doctors do the same timing. So, I can see numbers alone might not tell us much.

They seem to be saying COVID-19 patients can need the ventilators longer than a bacterial pneumonia patient. I can see why > there is inflammation of the lung lining, in COVID-19, which might not show in bacterial pneumonia. And this could make it harder for the ventilator to deliver oxygen, plus could take longer to clear up. And there are issues of when they start the ventilator, for each patient, and how likely the inflammation would result in the person dying, anyway.

And how would I know? But I see how stats alone might not tell what is needed to know.

Anyway, it says the doctors are working on it; so it might not be ventilators that are the problem, but need to know how to do things. And . . . then . . . if no ventilators were used, what would be the stats??

 

[loveofourlord]

"Dr. Stella Immanuel: (05:27)
Hello, I’m Dr. Stella Immanuel. I’m a primary care physician in Houston, Texas. I actually went to medical school in West Africa, Nigeria, where I took care of malaria patients, treated them with hydroxychloroquine and stuff like that. So I’m actually used to these medications. I’m here because I have personally treated over 350 patients with COVID. Patients that have diabetes, patients that have high blood pressure, patients that have asthma, old people … I think my oldest patient is 92 … 87 year olds. And the result has been the same. I put them on hydroxychloroquine, I put them on zinc, I put them on Zithromax, and they’re all well.
Dr. Stella Immanuel: (06:12)
For the past few months, after taking care of over 350 patients, we’ve not lost one. Not a diabetic, not a somebody with high blood pressure, not somebody who asthma, not an old person. We’ve not lost one patient. And on top of that, I’ve put myself, my staff, and many doctors that I know on hydroxychloroquine for prevention, because by the very mechanism of action, it works early and as a prophylaxis. We see patients, 10 to 15 COVID patients, everyday. We give them breathing treatments. We only wear surgical mask. None of us has gotten sick. It works.
Dr. Stella Immanuel: (06:46)
So right now, I came here to Washington DC to say, America, nobody needs to die. The study that made me start using hydroxychloroquine was a study that they did under the NIH in 2005 that say it works. Recently, I was doing some research about a patient that had hiccups and I found out that they even did a recent study in the NIH, which is our National Institute … that is the National … NIH, what? National Institute of Health. They actually had a study and go look it up. Type hiccups and COVID, you will see it. They treated a patient that had hiccups with hydroxychloroquine and it proved that hiccups is a symptom of COVID. So if the NIH knows that treating the patient would hydroxychloroquine proves that hiccup is a symptom of COVID, then they definitely know the hydroxychloroquine works.
Dr. Stella Immanuel: (07:42)
I’m upset. Why I’m upset is that I see people that cannot breathe. I see parents walk in, I see diabetic sit in my office knowing that this is a death sentence and they can’t breathe. And I hug them and I tell them, “It’s going to be okay. You’re going to live.” And we treat them and they leave. None has died. So if some fake science, some person sponsored by all these fake pharma companies comes out say, “We’ve done studies and they found out that it doesn’t work.” I can tell you categorically it’s fixed science. I want to know who is sponsoring that study. I want to know who is behind it because there is no way I can treat 350 patients and counting and nobody is dead and they all did better.
Dr. Stella Immanuel: (08:21)
I know you’re going to tell me that you treated 20 people, 40 people, and it didn’t work. I’m a true testimony. So I came here to Washington DC to tell America nobody needs to get sick. This virus has a cure. It is called hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and Zithromax. I know you people want to talk about a mask. Hello? You don’t need mask. There is a cure. I know they don’t want to open schools. No, you don’t need people to be locked down. There is prevention and there is a cure.
Dr. Stella Immanuel: (08:48)
And let me tell you something, all you fake doctors out there that tell me, “Yeah. I want a double blinded study.” I just tell you, quit sounding like a computer, double blinded, double blinded. I don’t know whether your chips are malfunctioning, but I’m a real doctor. I have radiologists, we have plastic surgeons, we have neurosurgeons, like Sanjay Gupta saying, “Yeah, it doesn’t work and it causes heart disease.” Let me ask you Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Hear me. Have you ever seen a COVID patient? Have you ever treated anybody with hydroxychloroquine and they died from heart disease? When you do, come and talk to me because I sit down in my clinic every day and I see these patients walk in everyday scared to death. I see people driving two, three hours to my clinic because some ER doctor is scared of the Texas board or they’re scared of something, and they will not prescribe medication to these people"

Why should we listen to a quack that thinks demons cause disease and alien sperm vs the rest of the medical community?

 

[com7fy8]

4 million have already died of hunger.

Uh-huh . . . I get your point.

And, indeed, ones can be dying of hunger and related problems, because of unemployment where COVID-19 fears have shut down tourist work, among other possibilities.

But if the thing flew totally loose, it could kill a high percentage of all seniors on the earth. About how many would that be?

People over eighty, now, is said to be 143 million. If they all got sick, the percentage of eighty-year-olds and older dying of COVID-19 has been something like >

13.4% of COVID-19 patients 80 years or older. For rough figuring, ten percent of our 143 million over-eighty people would be . . . 14 million.

But if leaders really cared about people, they might do better to help with the hunger problem. But restrictions can be easier, if people cooperate. If they started calling for everyone to send in money to feed people, that might be harder.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Like I offer > it depends on how much hope a patient has, if the person is not ventilated. That takes a pulmonologist to evaluate that . . . if it can be done. So, that would effect how to evaluate the statistics. So, I am not defending, but offering that numbers alone do not tell us enough.

For illustration > if all were sure to die without ventilation, that could mean they kept five percent alive, who would have died. So, we need expert, if possible, stats about that aspect.

So, I notice you haven't given us the link to this. Maybe you can. I can try, myself >

Some Doctors Moving Away From Ventilators for Virus Patients – NBC New York

Going from this report . . . numbers of deaths is not what tells us what we need to do. Among other things > it seems ones say it makes a difference when you start a person on a ventilator. If you try everything else until he or she is almost dead, then put the person on the ventilator, may be of course the person is going to die. And it seems the article is saying not all doctors do the same timing. So, I can see numbers alone might not tell us much.

They seem to be saying COVID-19 patients can need the ventilators longer than a bacterial pneumonia patient. I can see why > there is inflammation of the lung lining, in COVID-19, which might not show in bacterial pneumonia. And this could make it harder for the ventilator to deliver oxygen, plus could take longer to clear up. And there are issues of when they start the ventilator, for each patient, and how likely the inflammation would result in the person dying, anyway.

And how would I know? But I see how stats alone might not tell what is needed to know.

Anyway, it says the doctors are working on it; so it might not be ventilators that are the problem, but need to know how to do things. And . . . then . . . if no ventilators were used, what would be the stats??

Agreed, I don't like using stats, there's always hidden assumptions involved. But I understand there was a significant change in protocols to deal with covid-positive diagnoses, regardless of how they presented. And ventilation, intubation etc are extreme measures. Couple this with the stress on already sick patients (co-morbidities) who are whisked into isolation rooms by nurses in full PPE, refused access to family and treated like bio-hazards generally...that kind of stress and panic can kill. You've got to put yourself in their position, it's really a frightening and dangerous situation.

I encourage you to always listen to the 'still small voice' of the minority, in my experience it almost always turns out to be the truth. And that's also Biblical. It's the broad path that leads to destruction my friend.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

And, indeed, ones can be dying of hunger and related problems, because of unemployment where COVID-19 fears have shut down tourist work, among other possibilities.

Correct, the indirect toll is stupendous. Suicides, domestic violence, alcoholism, various addictions and demons that come from isolation and fear of a future without prospect of economic survival as entire industries evaporate etc etc

But if the thing flew totally loose, it could kill a high percentage of all seniors on the earth. About how many would that be?

People over eighty, now, is said to be 143 million. If they all got sick, the percentage of eighty-year-olds and older dying of COVID-19 has been something like >

13.4% of COVID-19 patients 80 years or older. For rough figuring, ten percent of our 143 million over-eighty people would be . . . 14 million.

That's not a lot in the scheme of things. But more importantly, there are ways to minimise and manage it by keeping the vulnerable safe, as you suggested.

It's always better taking the leap of faith, because we show our trust in God. Hiding like frightened mice in corners is no good for anyone.

But if leaders really cared about people, they might do better to help with the hunger problem. But restrictions can be easier, if people cooperate. If they started calling for everyone to send in money to feed people, that might be harder.

I wouldn't trust the leaders to dispense money to the needy or food to the hungry. They're too corrupt and greedy to be trusted for any worthwhile purpose imo.

 

[com7fy8]

Couple this with the stress on already sick patients (co-morbidities) who are whisked into isolation rooms by nurses in full PPE, refused access to family and treated like bio-hazards generally...that kind of stress and panic can kill. You've got to put yourself in their position, it's really a frightening and dangerous situation.

Correct, the indirect toll is stupendous. Suicides, domestic violence, alcoholism, various addictions and demons that come from isolation and fear of a future without prospect of economic survival as entire industries evaporate etc etc

Hiding like frightened mice in corners is no good for anyone.

the 'still small voice' of the minority,

A wee still voice tells me it is right not to fear, and right not to give in to stress, because Jesus gives us "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

Because God is almighty and so His peace is almighty to guard us > "the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

So, if ones are fearing and surrendering to alcoholism and suicide and being violent, then it is possible that the COVID-19 . . . and rogue police, for that matter . . . are not their real problem.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"Kill the sick and the old." - Pro-Life slogan for 2020

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Philip_B]

"Kill the sick and the old." - Pro-Life slogan for 2020

-CryptoLutheran

Yes I remain confused as those that seem determined to protect the lives of the unborn appear equally determined to be indifferent to the lives of the already born. go figure?!~

 

[ViaCrucis]

.

 

[visionary]

They keep coming forward.. Hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100,000 lives if used for COVID-19: Yale epidemiology professor

 

[visionary]

Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been used as standard-of-care in more than 300,000 older adults with multicomorbidities, with estimated proportion diagnosed with cardiac arrhythmias attributable to the medications 47/100,000 users, of which estimated mortality is <20%, 9/100,000 users, compared to the 10,000 Americans now dying each week. These medications need to be widely available and promoted immediately for physicians to prescribe. Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis

 

[visionary]

And the reports keep coming in.. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/health...BWfvL75PFUDFjRr8o1VVR8_tNqXEd3OxdRi6eDVf1UBss

 

[loveofourlord]

And the reports keep coming in.. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/health...BWfvL75PFUDFjRr8o1VVR8_tNqXEd3OxdRi6eDVf1UBss

They are seriously starting tio sound like quacks at this point. How many studies showing it doesn't work, but lets just keep trying, "Oh this one SEEMS to show maybe."

 

[visionary]

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has posted a notice of a shortage of hydroxychloroquine. It is not possible to predict the full scope and duration of the shortage or the long term impact the coronavirus pandemic will have on the supply of hydroxychloroquine. At this time, it is unknown whether ending the EUA will impact the current hydroxychloroquine shortage.

 

[visionary]

This is set up for hospital cases. Treatment is for at home prescript in in this study. NIH begins clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat COVID-19

 

[visionary]

Another study.. Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

 

[visionary]

On March 30, 2020, about 83 percent of independent pharmacists in the USA said ‘they should be able to dispense a limited supply of malaria drugs, as long the patient has tested positive ..... and is under a doctor's care.’ Doctors Rate Hydroxychloroquine Most Effective Therapy for Coronavirus Infection