Covenant theology

[Valletta]

Fr. Matt.
From my point of view, you have given me your answer. I liked it...From what I have read, Roman Catholics are the one's getting into this theology, not so much the Orthodox. I like what you said, as that I see it as positive toward Catholics (covenant theology) so far. From what I read from Hahn, the orthodox have said they found no heresy in them so far. So, The orthodox I think will respond if anything develops further in their interest in this. So truly, thanks for your response. But it not being heresy, means ( i think) indivual Orthodox ARE ABLE TO PERHAPS, have an interest. I was just curious about yours. And you gave it.

In fact Jesus Himself is the "New Covenant" or "New Testament."

 

[Josheb]

I didn’t mean you specifically, just in general when addressing this question. more a collective “you.”

I appreciate that but the questions were still @ralliann's and not mine.

I would expect any cleric (regardless of doctrinal or theological disposition) to have some theology of covenant simply because scripture itself chronicles and frames so much of its content by its use of the term, "covenant." I would not expect anyone who hasn't read Roman Catholic views or Protestant views (and there is a huge growing divide within Protestantism on this subject as I type) to speak to such things. I do also think any Christian who has read the Bible can discuss the topic and learn from others, but I also think much of the discussion will be burdened to some degree great or small by our doctrinal biases. At the risk of unnecessary and unintended provocation, I will add that RCs, EOs, and CTers will have that conversation much better than with Dispensationalists because Dispensational Premillennialism (DP) is such a radical departure from anything historically held to be orthodox or mainstream that the differences provide little common ground. As I told ralliann elsewhere, I happen to consider myself a CTer but subscribe to a pov known as Progressive Covenantlism in which it is held there is only one covenant, the covenant the Father has with the Son, and that covenant and its covenant relationship with humanity was revealed incrementally, or progressively, throughout the whole of scripture. Therefore, no one verse in the Bible is definitive and the whole is larger than the sum of its parts.

Where I to ask you, "What do you think?" I'd specify that to ask,

• What do you think of the historical view of covenant theology?
• What do you think of the historical Roman Catholic theology of covenant?
• What is the Orthodox theology of covenant?
• What do you think of the post-Reformation Protestant view of Covenant Theology?
• What do you think of the current growing divide in Christendom wherein Dispensationalism emphasizes dispensation over covenant and views scripture discontinuous instead of continuous?

BUT I also consider, "I do not know" a very valid answer wherever it is honest . Those words can be an opportunity for learning for those willing to do that work. As you can see from this post, I tend to be exacting. It's not intended to provoke; it's my "style." and probably do on this occasion to my having read with some diversity on the subject and having a certain appreciation, benevolence (?), affinity (?), or even kindred liking with the EO pov.

 

[ralliann]

I appreciate that but the questions were still @ralliann's and not mine.

I would expect any cleric (regardless of doctrinal or theological disposition) to have some theology of covenant simply because scripture itself chronicles and frames so much of its content by its use of the term, "covenant." I would not expect anyone who hasn't read Roman Catholic views or Protestant views (and there is a huge growing divide within Protestantism on this subject as I type) to speak to such things. I do also think any Christian who has read the Bible can discuss the topic and learn from others, but I also think much of the discussion will be burdened to some degree great or small by our doctrinal biases. At the risk of unnecessary and unintended provocation, I will add that RCs, EOs, and CTers will have that conversation much better than with Dispensationalists because Dispensational Premillennialism (DP) is such a radical departure from anything historically held to be orthodox or mainstream that the differences provide little common ground. As I told ralliann elsewhere, I happen to consider myself a CTer but subscribe to a pov known as Progressive Covenantlism in which it is held there is only one covenant, the covenant the Father has with the Son, and that covenant and its covenant relationship with humanity was revealed incrementally, or progressively, throughout the whole of scripture. Therefore, no one verse in the Bible is definitive and the whole is larger than the sum of its parts.

Where I to ask you, "What do you think?" I'd specify that to ask,

• What do you think of the historical view of covenant theology?
• What do you think of the historical Roman Catholic theology of covenant?
• What is the Orthodox theology of covenant?
• What do you think of the post-Reformation Protestant view of Covenant Theology?
• What do you think of the current growing divide in Christendom wherein Dispensationalism emphasizes dispensation over covenant and views scripture discontinuous instead of continuous?

BUT I also consider, "I do not know" a very valid answer wherever it is honest . Those words can be an opportunity for learning for those willing to do that work. As you can see from this post, I tend to be exacting. It's not intended to provoke; it's my "style." and probably do on this occasion to my having read with some diversity on the subject and having a certain appreciation, benevolence (?), affinity (?), or even kindred liking with the EO pov.

From my understanding of these two branches of Catholicism, the Orthodox, Are not that much to persue it. They have looked at what Catholics have said, and judged it ok in their eyes. They did not look at this theology to do anything other than ok, or not ok. At least that was my understanding. I did not expect An orthodox to have much interest beyond looking at what Rome has done. But I thought I would ask his personal opinion to see if there were a personal knowledge or interest in their pursuit of it is all. That is why I was not more specific. Maybe their interest will increase, who knows. But his response let me know it could be possible.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What do you think of the historical view of covenant theology?

I really don’t, aside from what I already wrote.

What do you think of the historical Roman Catholic theology of covenant?

I don’t know enough about what they believe to have an opinion.

What is the Orthodox theology of covenant?

not much more than what I already said, unless you have something specific in mind.

What do you think of the post-Reformation Protestant view of Covenant Theology?

depends on the Protestant.

What do you think of the current growing divide in Christendom wherein Dispensationalism emphasizes dispensation over covenant and views scripture discontinuous instead of continuous?

I don’t.

 

[ralliann]

I really don’t, aside from what I already wrote.

I don’t know enough about what they believe to have an opinion.

not much more than what I already said, unless you have something specific in mind.

depends on the Protestant.

I don’t.

Well, Fr. Matt, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. But IF this would become more of interest, it would not be outside of the Catholic Church anyway. Why go into all the protestant confusion. That is why it excited me to discover this idea it was outside of all that, not some concept of protestant innovation all together.. If I loved that, how much more would you not go there LOL

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, Fr. Matt, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. But IF this would become more of interest, it would not be outside of the Catholic Church anyway. Why go into all the protestant confusion. That is why it excited me to discover this idea it was outside of all that, not some concept of protestant innovation all together.. If I loved that, how much more would you not go there LOL

sorry, I don’t follow what you’re disagreeing with.

 

[ralliann]

sorry, I don’t follow what you’re disagreeing with.

I am not disagreeing with anyone really. But rather an opinion of why an Orthodox may not want to address protestant theology.
Protestantism is confusing with all it's denominations etc. I believe it is the Orthodox opinion that they innovate with new Ideas, already settled by the authority of the historic church. If I, as a non Orthodox can see your concern, and therefore be happy to discover Covenant theology approved outside of protestant varying ideas, and therefore look Catholic theology first, how much more you would desire to avoid addressing protestant theology as well.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am not disagreeing with anyone really. But rather an opinion of why an Orthodox may not want to address protestant theology.
Protestantism is confusing with all it's denominations etc. I believe it is the Orthodox opinion that they innovate with new Ideas, already settled by the authority of the historic church. If I, as a non Orthodox can see your concern, and therefore be happy to discover Covenant theology approved outside of protestant varying ideas, and therefore look Catholic theology first, how much more you would desire to avoid addressing protestant theology as well.

I have no issue addressing Protestant theology. it’s just that it depends on the individual Protestant.

 

[ralliann]

I have no issue addressing Protestant theology. it’s just that it depends on the individual Protestant.

Ok.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ok.

it’s too all-over-the-place. you can have differing dogmatic views in the same parish, and some denominations think that is a good thing.

 

[ralliann]

it’s too all-over-the-place. you can have differing dogmatic views in the same parish, and some denominations think that is a good thing.

I know! I think us protestants threw away some of the baby with the bathwater ( of course you would say "some of the baby, you think?", LOL...
Being non Orthodox or Catholic leaves me be confused as to what part is what. At this point I love finding it ok with you all. I have found that with covenant theology.. Because we prots have made and become somewhat a mess.