Covenant and New Covenant theology

[mkgal1]

I already stated to you the one year extension period after the cross, Luke 13:6-9

The point of the parable of the fig tree isn't about a "one year extension". This parable goes back to Isaiah 5.

Isaiah 5
"Isaiah 5 BSB" Isaiah 5 BSB

 

[Guojing]

I'm confused as to why Acts 7 is being brought up?

The apostate religious leaders certainly knew the consequences of rejecting God based on what was written in the Scriptures they had memorized.

The entire Acts book is to account for the fall of the nation Israel. By Acts 7, the national leaders of Israel rejected the Holy Spirit, by Acts 28:28, the leaders of the Israel diaspora also similarly rejected the Holy Spirit.

That is why the Holy Spirit inspired Luke to write so much about Peter at the beginning of Acts, before Peter fading off after Acts 7, and completely not mentioned again after Acts 15, and Paul became the prominent apostle since.

Peter was an apostle to the circumcision, while Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Galatians 2:9)

Acts 7 is about a year after the cross. That was why Stephen said he saw Jesus standing up, just before he was stoned, that was the significance of the parable of the barren fig tree.

But instead of standing up to return to earth to begin the Tribulation, God the Father revealed the dispensation of grace for the gentiles (Ephesians 3:9), thru the fall of the nation Israel right there and then, and Jesus sat back down (Psalms 110:1).

Daniel's 70th week have since been postponed indefinitely, and all of us have since been beneficiaries of that nation's fall, as Paul would later explained in Romans 11:11

Since you believe that humans have free will, then Jesus reply to the 11 to their question in Acts 1:6 will make perfect sense.

Even though Jesus, as God, could have foreseen the Sanhedrin rejection of him, he still needed to respect their freedom to make a free choice there and then.

 

[mkgal1]

By Acts 7, the national leaders of Israel rejected the Holy Spirit

Was this not a rejection of God?

John 19:15 ~ Away with him,” they yelled. “Away with him! Crucify him!” “What? Crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” the leading priests shouted back.​

 

[mkgal1]

Daniel's 70th week have since been postponed indefinitely, and all of us have since been beneficiaries of that nation's fall, as Paul would later explained in Romans 11:11

Paul didn't explain that in any of his writing.

If Daniel's 70th week has been postponed....then Jesus wasn't our Christ (but, of course, I don't believe that is the case).

Jesus arrived just as prophesied.....anointed in 27 AD. The 490 years (7 x 70) ended in 34 AD. Jesus was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, in 30 AD. Postponing the 70th week dismisses the entire ministry of Jesus.

 

[Guojing]

Paul didn't explain that in any of his writing.

If Daniel's 70th week has been postponed....then Jesus wasn't our Christ (but, of course, I don't believe that is the case).

Jesus arrived just as prophesied.....anointed in 27 AD. The 490 years (7 x 70) ended in 34 AD. Jesus was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, in 30 AD. Postponing the 70th week dismisses the entire ministry of Jesus.

Paul told us in romans 11:25 that The tribulation has not begun and will not until the fullness of the gentiles come in

 

[Guojing]

Was this not a rejection of God?

John 19:15 ~ Away with him,” they yelled. “Away with him! Crucify him!” “What? Crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” the leading priests shouted back.​

You have to understand it from the perspective of the Trinity.

Now that we are born after Scripture is completed, we can now look back and see that God was not unjust in casting aside his favorite nation Israel, after Acts 7.

The nation Israel rejected the entire Trinity, despite chance after chance God has given the nation.

Israel rejected God the Father in the OT by ignoring or stoning their prophets, the last being John the Baptist (Luke 16:16, Acts 7:52).
Israel rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels by putting him on the cross (Acts 2:36)
Israel rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts by stoning Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:55).

With the entire Trinity being rejected by the Jews, the last one to me is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin under the Law of Moses, God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the nation Israel, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).

Once you realized this, Ephesians 2 and 3 take on totally new meaning, and you as a former Gentile, will really praise God the Father for his wonderful plan. And you will not be upset that Jesus was only speaking to Israel in the 4 Gospels.

 

[BABerean2]

God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the nation Israel, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).

The claim above completely falls apart based on the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary.

The ultimate fulfillment of Israel is found in Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16, and by Christ in Luke 24:25-27.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


The New Covenant: Bob George

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[Guojing]

The claim above completely falls apart based on the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary.

The ultimate fulfillment of Israel is found in Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16, and by Christ in Luke 24:25-27.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


The New Covenant: Bob George

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When did Israel lose her status as God's favorite nation, according to your doctrine?

 

[BABerean2]

When did Israel lose her status as God's favorite nation, according to your doctrine?

What did Jesus say, according to His doctrine?


Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


See 1 Peter 2:4-10 for the nation to which the kingdom is given.


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[mkgal1]

God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the nation Israel, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).

The trouble with that belief is that it completely dismisses how God restored those that were condemned by the Old Covenant and given life through the New Covenant (people like Mary, the mother of Jesus, Peter, Andrew, John, Matthew, Paul, etc). That's not the biblical narrative. Instead....God was bringing together the faithful remnant and the faithful Gentiles and making one new Israel of God. The one event that illustrates this beautifully (in my opinion) is recorded in Acts 10...where Peter and other Jewish men that had been under the Old Covenant were able to witness the Holy Spirit being poured out on the Gentiles...."in the same way" that occurred to Peter and the Jews.

Acts 10:44-47

The Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit
(Acts 19:1–7)​

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. 45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.​

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!”
Full chapter---->"Acts 10 BSB" Acts 10 BSB​

 

[mkgal1]

Once you realized this, Ephesians 2 and 3 take on totally new meaning, and you as a former Gentile, will really praise God the Father for his wonderful plan. And you will not be upset that Jesus was only speaking to Israel in the 4 Gospels.

This is what Ephesians 2 says....this quoted statement seems to be adding a lot more to the biblical story than what is actually there:

Ephesians 2:14-15​

For He himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility. He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in Himself one new people from the two groups.​

 

[mkgal1]

Paul told us in romans 11:25 that The tribulation has not begun and will not until the fullness of the gentiles come in

What the text of Romans 11:25 states is:

For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers and sisters, of this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may come in.​

.....the text the continues and says:

and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
​

This is about a redefinition of Israel becoming the faithful remnant from Jacob + the faithful Gentiles coming together in the New Covenant.

Those that were under the Old Covenant that rejected the offer of the New Covenant remained under the Law (and were condemned to death, as that's what the Law did....it was ultimately death for all who sin...which included everyone but Jesus). Before the judgement on Jerusalem and the complete removal of the Kingdom of God from the apostate religious leaders....Israel was a mixture of corruption and faithful people. But once the destruction of 70 AD occurred....God then only had faithful "priests on earth " representing Him (All Israel was saved then). Paul directly stated what this mystery was in Ephesians.

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


​

 

[keras]

The Church is Israel:
Just as the Gentile Ruth, an ancestor of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, could say to the Israelite Naomi: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. Ruth 1:16, so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel. Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12-19, Galatians 3:29

That is: all genetic Jews in the church remain members of Judah or Benjamin, the tribes they were born into. Romans 11:1 And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel and so will be assigned into its tribes, as per: Ezekiel 47:21-23, Isaiah 66:21 and as seen by John in Revelation 7:9

So the entire church represents the 12 tribes of Israel. This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved by the New Covenant, which is made only with the Israel of God. Hebrews 8:10

John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church. God knows who His people are, Amos 9:9, and every believer will be placed in the tribe suited to their abilities and characteristics. Revelation 7:9-14

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are ethnic Jews, Acts 22:3 or ethnic Gentiles, Romans 16:4b, have become spiritually-circumcised Israelites, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus. Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13

The books of James and Peter are addressed to the twelve tribes, which is the same as addressing people in the church, people with faith in Christ , James 1:3, that is: Christians, people who have been born again in Jesus and who anticipate His Return.

All those in the church, from every tribe, race, nation and language, are spiritually Abraham's seed, by their faith. Galatians 3:26-29 And Abraham's seed is Israel. Isaiah 41:8-10 So the entire church membership are Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16

This literally means we are the ‘Overcomers for God’, or ‘God’s Victorious people’. Seen in each of the seven Church’s of Revelation and in Isaiah 56:1-8

Not just the Jews in the church, but also the Gentiles in the church, are all spiritually Abraham's seed of promise as Isaac was and as Jesus is the one and only true Seed. And so the peoples of the church, Jews and those from every race, nation and language, every faithful believing Christian is an heir of all the as yet, unfulfilled promises made by God to Israel in all of the Bible: Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-14

 

[Guojing]

What the text of Romans 11:25 states is:

For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers and sisters, of this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may come in.​

.....the text the continues and says:

and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
​

This is about a redefinition of Israel becoming the faithful remnant from Jacob + the faithful Gentiles coming together in the New Covenant.

Those that were under the Old Covenant that rejected the offer of the New Covenant remained under the Law (and were condemned to death, as that's what the Law did....it was ultimately death for all who sin...which included everyone but Jesus). Before the judgement on Jerusalem and the complete removal of the Kingdom of God from the apostate religious leaders....Israel was a mixture of corruption and faithful people. But once the destruction of 70 AD occurred....God then only had faithful "priests on earth " representing Him (All Israel was saved then). Paul directly stated what this mystery was in Ephesians.

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


​

That is your interpretation, but I am not into replacement theology.

 

[Guojing]

What did Jesus say, according to His doctrine?


Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


See 1 Peter 2:4-10 for the nation to which the kingdom is given.


.

I am asking you when did the change happen.

Are you saying it began in Matthew 1, or Matthew 21? Make it clear please.

 

[Guojing]

Instead....God was bringing together the faithful remnant and the faithful Gentiles and making one new Israel of God.

As I stated, I am not into replacement theology, but you are free to believe in it.

 

[keras]

That is your interpretation, but I am not into replacement theology.

Neither are we nor is God.
He has only ever had one people; all the people who believe in Him and keep His Commandments.

Why must you harp on about RT, something that no-one I know promotes.
It is you who demands a Two People, Two Promises theology. The Jewish people Redeemed and the faithful Church separate.
That idea is not Biblical and cannot happen.

 

[Guojing]

Neither are we nor is God.
He has only ever had one people; all the people who believe in Him and keep His Commandments.

Why must you harp on about RT, something that no-one I know promotes.
It is you who demands a Two People, Two Promises theology. The Jewish people Redeemed and the faithful Church separate.
That idea is not Biblical and cannot happen.

So if you do, then the Body of Christ is the Body of Christ, and Israel only represents the nation Israel.

But you guys keep linking Israel to the BOC, you gotta keep them separated.

Romans 11:25 clearly separates them. It is just you guys choose to interpret it otherwise.

That is fine, but it does not allow you to claim it is "not Biblical and cannot happen". You just choose not to see it.

 

[BABerean2]

I am asking you when did the change happen.

Are you saying it began in Matthew 1, or Matthew 21? Make it clear please.

Let me make this crystal clear. What I say means nothing.

What did Jesus say in Matthew 21:43?

.............................................

Are you an advocate of "Replacement Theology", based on the following questions?

Have you replaced the one people of God, with two peoples of God in John 10:16?

Have you replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

Have you replaced the one Gospel, with two Gospels?

Have you replaced the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8?

Have you ignored the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6?

.

 

[Guojing]

Let me make this crystal clear. What I say means nothing.

What did Jesus say in Matthew 21:43?

.............................................

Are you an advocate of "Replacement Theology", based on the following questions?

Have you replaced the one people of God, with two peoples of God in John 10:16?

Have you replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

Have you replaced the one Gospel, with two Gospels?

Have you replaced the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8?

Have you ignored the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6?

.

You don't make anything crystal clear when you answer a question with a question.

So you are saying Israel lost her status in Matthew 21?