Count the number

[Interplanner]

The defeat of Satan refers to his accusations. He accuses like the law does (Col. 2:14; Acts 13's sermon), and this has been voided. There is an important difference between the debt and power of sin, and it is the debt that has been canceled. It still has power.

 

[shturt678s]

Personally I don't see how anyone could hold to the view that Satan has already been bound for a 1,000 years based on scripture, and based on just looking at all the wickedness going on in the world....which is soon to go into destruction. (as it was in the days of Sodom, and as it was in the days of Noah)

But to each his own Jack.

You're beyond an O.K. Chrsitian, and I care too, hence how do you view Rev.20:2, "seized the dragon (Satan),.....and bound him for a 1,000 years"?

btw the wickedness is due to the agencies of Satan until Satan is personally loosed at Rev.20:7 which could be anytime due the wickedness you do see to hurridly bring in the end.

Not picking on you, ie, especially since you do care.

Old Jack

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You're beyond an O.K. Chrsitian, and I care too, hence how do you view Rev.20:2, "seized the dragon (Satan),.....and bound him for a 1,000 years"?

btw the wickedness is due to the agencies of Satan until Satan is personally loosed at Rev.20:7 which could be anytime due the wickedness you do see to hurridly bring in the end.

Not picking on you, ie, especially since you do care.

Old Jack

It's simple, I view Rev. 20:2 as not fulfilled yet, because Christ has not returned yet. (read chapter 19)

 

[shturt678s]

The defeat of Satan refers to his accusations. He accuses like the law does (Col. 2:14; Acts 13's sermon), and this has been voided. There is an important difference between the debt and power of sin, and it is the debt that has been canceled. It still has power.

One has to agape Col.2:14, ie, at the Cross, the law was blotted out + Rev.12:7 where your correct, ie, the Accuser "was thrown to the earth," ie, the effect of Christ's incarnation and His enthronement (also at the Cross). The Accuser is no longer able to accuse.

Thank you again Interplanner,

Jack

btw taken with Rev.20:2, ie, Michael is the one that beat up Satan and bound him.

 

[Interplanner]

He can still accuse, but we now have the mere truth that voids his accusations (Rom 8). We have the "one little word / that fells them" (Luther).

Merry Christmas!

 

[shturt678s]

He can still accuse, but we now have the mere truth that voids his accusations (Rom 8). We have the "one little word / that fells them" (Luther).

Merry Christmas!

For the first time in a long time, we agree to agree, ie, pretty Merry Xmas to me, ie, let's continue this journey, ie, thank you again

Jack, watching for Santa Claus for the little kids, ie, i'm not into Christ's birth that much as I am His Resurrection and Enthronement.

 

[Interplanner]

Enjoy the Schaeffer story over at another thread. I'll post it here if I can find it.

 

[Interplanner]

The wrath of God already is the darkest thing this world has ever seen. I was astonished one day in reading about modern theology (neo-orthodox, existentialist) that justification by faith was abandoned by many Protestant denominations over the past 2 centuries. There is no hope without justification by faith. Because the doctrine of justification by faith is sort of like visiting the day of God's wrath ahead of time, and being able to put it behind you, in Christ and because of Christ, Rom 3.

The comment in the survey of modern theology was that the neo-orthodox and existentialist movements really had no other place to go because they had left this message.

Now, I hope you know the story of Francis Schaeffer about all this. Dr. Schaeffer is to the 2nd half of the 20th century what Lewis was to the 1st half. See L'Abri Fellowship International : The Official Website. This story took place when he was in high school, and is sometimes called:

"The Book that Popped Out."

His parents had been attending one of the mainstream Protestant church in Philadelphia and it had given up on the Gospel of justification. His high school assignment was to review a classic, but the teacher had them actually go to a bookstore and find their own used copy there. As he walked up to the counter to purchase PRIDE AND PREJUDICE by Austen, he was looking at the clerk, and just to the right of his face, on a shelf behind him, a book seemed to move. It started moving out, as if beckoning to be purchased. Fran changed his mind and put the Austen back. "I'll take that book right up there behind you! I think it moved out, moved toward me!"

The clerk thought this was crazy and looked back, and sure enough a book had popped out.

It was not a Bible.

It was a classic edition of Ovid.

Ovid was a 3rd century BC Greek philosopher who is one of the darkest, least hopeful writers of that period. He was an utter atheist and had completely discarded all deities the Greeks ever concieved. Other than the unusual experience at the bookstore, Schaeffer would never have picked it out. By the time he was done writing the review, however, his brain was screaming. But it was not screaming because Ovid was so hopeless, as you might have been thinking.

Schaeffer's mind was wretching because what Ovid said about life was all his minister at the mainstream Protestant church, that had given up on justification by the Gospel, had to offer!

He went to his minister with his high school project and his pile of despair. He went without his parents. He looked that minister in the eye and said 'you don't have anything more than this Ovid had! You don't have any hope! You never teach anything from the Bible with all your theories about how it was put together! You don't have a gospel and you don't have problem like sin that the gospel solves! You have no more answers than Ovid had! So here is what I'm doing: I'm not coming here any more. I'm just going to sit down and read that book--the Bible, not Ovid--and I'm not getting up or not reading anything else until I'm done. I just can't believe I'm supposed to live my whole life with you and Ovid!"

And as soon as Fran read about the Seed of the woman, he just knew, deeply and bouyantly, that the Bible had got right to its purpose. He knew it was that efficient. It wasn't covering everything else completely, but getting right to this. He didn't know about all the detail it had gone into about the different levels of created life, but, yeah, there was a problem on earth and it was not God. it was not the Creator but instead it was something created that had diverged. It was actually the upstaging of God, and all he could hear for many nights was his minister sounding just like the deceptive character of ch 3 "had God really said that?" over and over. It was as though the minister's "job" was to get people not to study their Bibles. At least, he couldn't think of any other way to put it.

And so hope was born and Francis Schaeffer began as a Christian from the most unlikely of places. Not everyone will have that kind of experience because not everyone has the clarity of the mind he has. But hopefully everyone will see that when the Gospel is lost, all is lost, so completely that there is no reason to even open a Bible.

 

[Interplanner]

I still can't figure out the thing about Satan being loose 1000 years now.

 

[shturt678s]

I still can't figure out the thing about Satan being loose 1000 years now.

The "1,000 years" began a the Cross, Savior's Resurrection, and Enthronement, Rev.12:5-9 (vs.1, 2); 20:1-6 and ends at Rev.20:9, 10.

Jack

 

[Interplanner]

ahhhh, I thought I was hearing something literal... OK.

 

[shturt678s]

ahhhh, I thought I was hearing something literal... OK.

Appreciate you and your words always,

Jack that ate too much

 

[Interplanner]

Obviously Satan was loose, based on how much you ate!

I think there is some 'control in the relationship' exhibited between Christ and Satan in that Christ is the one announcing that he, Satan, has a loose tether, or a long one.

 

[shturt678s]

Obviously Satan was loose, based on how much you ate!

I think there is some 'control in the relationship' exhibited between Christ and Satan in that Christ is the one announcing that he, Satan, has a loose tether, or a long one.

Wont' eat so much on New Years for sure,

Jack

 

[Interplanner]

Resistance has to come before the temptation Jack, no fair trying to get credit for next week's holiness! lol

 

[Bible2]

shturt678s said in post 110:

The "1,000 years" began a the Cross, Savior's Resurrection, and Enthronement, Rev.12:5-9 (vs.1, 2); 20:1-6 and ends at Rev.20:9, 10.

Note that there are at least 8 different scriptural reasons for reading the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:2-6 as not beginning until after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7-21.

First, this is in accord with how the rest of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are in chronological order, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the armies of the world (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3), and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected or changed church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

-

Second, the 1,000 years in Revelation 20:2-6 is when Satan will be literally bound with a chain, and cast into and locked within the literal bottomless pit, whereas currently he's walking about freely on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet. But their beginning after Jesus' 2nd coming makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Third, during the 1,000 years, Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 20:3), whereas currently he is able to deceive the world (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Corinthians 11:3,14,15; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:14, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet.

Fourth, the defeat of Satan in Revelation 20:1-3 is in chronological accord with the immediately preceding defeat of the Antichrist (the individual man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet, and the world's armies, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21). Indeed, there's no chapter break between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 in the original Greek manuscripts, so that Revelation 19:19 to 20:3 can be taken together as a unit, showing how every power of evil will be defeated at Jesus' 2nd coming.

Fifth, reading Revelation 20:4-6 as Jesus and the bodily resurrected church reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches Jesus reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming in Zechariah 14:3-21. For Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth, because it refers to a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:20-21), whereas there will be no temple building in New Jerusalem on the new earth (Revelation 21:22). Also, Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth because it refers to surviving unsaved people from the present earth being forced to come up to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19), whereas by the time of the new earth, all the unsaved people from the present earth will have already been cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15 to 21:8).

Sixth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches other verses which show that the bodily resurrection of the church will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Seventh, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:5, which must refer in its entirety to only bodily resurrection. For not every dead person is going to be figuratively resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15). And Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all the non-church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that the church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead won't be resurrected until sometime after the 1,000 years are over.

Eighth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:4, which shows that the people in the first resurrection will include those in the church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) for not worshipping him or his image, or receiving his mark on their hand or forehead. This refers back to the details of Revelation 13:4-18, which have never been fulfilled. So the first resurrection can't have happened yet. But its occurring at Jesus' 2nd coming, when he will defeat the Antichrist, makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:20 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9).

shturt678s said in post 110:

The "1,000 years" began a the Cross, Savior's Resurrection, and Enthronement, Rev.12:5-9 (vs.1, 2); 20:1-6 and ends at Rev.20:9, 10.

In Revelation 12:5, the "man child" isn't Jesus, for Revelation 12:5 isn't about past things, but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from 4 different angles what will happen right before the start and during the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

Regarding Revelation 12:5 saying "who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron": Along with Jesus (Revelation 19:15, Psalms 2:9), the whole obedient church will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-29) on the earth (Revelation 5:10) during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). Before the millennium, during the tribulation, at its midpoint, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up bodily to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4,5, Textus Receptus) as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6), and as the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4) in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12).

 

[shturt678s]

Rev.6:2 even the horsemen riding out are parallel (synchronous), ie, let alone the end of the world at Rev.6:12-17 makes it impossible to be viewed chronological my friend.

Jack, ie, the evidence is only the tip of an iceberg

 

[Bible2]

shturt678s said in post 117:

Rev.6:2 even the horsemen riding out are parallel (synchronous), ie, let alone the end of the world at Rev.6:12-17 makes it impossible to be viewed chronological my friend.

Actually, the seals in Revelation 6 are chronological.

Regarding the 1st seal's horseman, on the white horse (Revelation 6:1-2), that could represent the gospel of Jesus (not Jesus himself: Acts 3:21) going forth to all nations and victoriously saving souls. For Jesus is the rider on the white horse seen later in Revelation 19:11,13 (cf. John 1:1,14), and his gospel will be preached to all nations during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:14, Revelation 14:6). The bow (Revelation 6:2) is a weapon that is able to affect things far away, just as the gospel is able to affect things far away from where it began (Luke 24:47).

The last 3 of the 4 horsemen (Revelation 6:4-8) represent a horrible future war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons.

One way this war could happen is the U.S. could build up the Iraqi Army until it's huge enough and well-equipped enough to serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall some of the former Baathist military hierarchy to run the Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly. And if the current Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, the Mossad, and possibly also (Sunni Arab) Saudi Intelligence, to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For all 3 of these intelligence agencies would love for Iraq to attack their common mortal foe Iran, and the Iraqi Baathists could agree to do this, for they see non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, false-flag operations could be managed by the CIA and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to prepare the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they're doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, i.e. the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

shturt678s said in post 117:

Rev.6:2 even the horsemen riding out are parallel (synchronous), ie, let alone the end of the world at Rev.6:12-17 makes it impossible to be viewed chronological my friend.

Regarding Revelation 6:12-17, note that nothing requires that it will be the end of the world. Instead, it could be fulfilled in our future simply by a huge volcanic eruption (possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera) which will occur during only the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This eruption could begin with a large earthquake (Revelation 6:12), signaling the sudden rising of magma within the volcano. When it erupts, it could shoot so much ash and smoke into the sky that the sun will appear darkened and the moon blood-red (Revelation 6:12b), like happens during large forest fires. The volcano could also shoot blobs of red-hot magma into the sky, which as they fall back down could appear like falling stars (Revelation 6:13). And it could shoot so much super-heated ash and smoke so high and so quickly into the sky that they could form a gigantic mushroom cloud which will make the sky (the first heaven) look like a scroll being rolled up (Revelation 6:14). Earthquakes connected with the eruption could be so large that they set off a chain reaction of other earthquakes in nearby faults and volcanoes, which could set off even more earthquakes further away, and so on, so that earthquakes will end up affecting every mountain and island, moving each of their positions at least a little bit (Revelation 6:14b).

 

[shturt678s]

Rev.6:12-14, "And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great shaking occurred, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood,"

For those who will study Matt.24:24:29 and IIPet.3:10, 12 little comment will be needed. Here we have one picture of the end, ie, the end! For those of you that like to interpret Revelation literally, ie, this is a literal bite of the figurative whole. The figures used are simply figures. Quaking, sun, whole moon (ie, full moon), heaven, stars, mountains and islands are to be grammatically and contextually understood literally here.

The dispute as to whether this cataclysm is to be dated before or after what the futurist call the Great Tribulation, and what they call the Rapture is unimportant at this juncture. Here we get only one glimpse of the end of the world, ie, the next of the total seven is at 7:9-17.

Jack

 

[Bible2]

shturt678s said in post 119:

Rev.6:12-14, "And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great shaking occurred, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood,"

For those who will study Matt.24:24:29 and IIPet.3:10, 12 little comment will be needed. Here we have one picture of the end, ie, the end!

Revelation 6:12-13 and Matthew 24:29-31 are two different sets of events. For Revelation 6:12-13 will occur during only the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, whereas Matthew 24:29-31 (like Revelation 19:7-21, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) will occur immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29). Also, when Revelation 6:12-13 occurs, the moon's light will appear blood-red, whereas when Matthew 24:29 occurs, the moon's light won't be seen at all. There will also be one point between the time of Revelation 6:12-13 and the time of Matthew 24:29 when the moon's light temporarily won't be seen at all, during 1/3 of the night (Revelation 8:12).

Also, the sun appearing to be darkened in Revelation 6:12-13 will be only the first time during the tribulation that something like that will happen. For it will happen again during the 4th trumpet (part of the tribulation's 2nd stage), for 1/3 of the day (Revelation 8:12), and then again during the 5th trumpet (Revelation 9:2), and then again during the 5th vial (Revelation 16:10), part of the tribulation's 4th and final stage, the 3rd stage being the literal 3.5-year time period of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14). Also, what will appear like "stars" falling from the sky in Revelation 6:12-13 will be only the first time during the tribulation that something like that will happen. For subsequently, during the 3rd trumpet, what will appear like a star will fall from the sky (Revelation 8:10-11), and then again during the 5th trumpet (Revelation 9:1). And then again, mid-tribulation, what will appear like stars will descend from the sky (Revelation 12:4).

shturt678s said in post 119:

For those who will study Matt.24:24:29 and IIPet.3:10, 12 little comment will be needed. Here we have one picture of the end, ie, the end!

Matthew 24:29 can refer to literal clouds blocking the literal light from the literal sun and moon. And it can refer to what we still today call "falling stars", i.e. meteors, but ones which will also be meteorites, i.e. ones which will pass through the clouds and will be seen before they land on the earth. So "heaven" in Matthew 24:29-31 can simply refer to the first heaven, i.e. the sky/atmosphere. And "the powers of the heavens" which will be shaken can refer to the literal fallen-angelic "powers" that currently rule the world from high above the earth (Ephesians 6:12, Ephesians 2:2).

Also, while the apostles asked Jesus about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), note that he didn't tell them that the end of the age would occur at the end of the future tribulation, i.e. at his (post-tribulation) 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus didn't tell the apostles many other things during his ministry (John 16:12). It wouldn't be until much later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).

shturt678s said in post 119:

For those who will study Matt.24:24:29 and IIPet.3:10, 12 little comment will be needed. Here we have one picture of the end, ie, the end!

Regarding 2 Peter 3:10-13, in the day of the Lord will occur the destruction of heaven (the first heaven: the sky, the atmosphere) and the earth (the surface of the earth) at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11, Revelation 21:1). And this will be followed by the creation of a new atmosphere and surface for the earth (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) onto which New Jerusalem, God the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:2-3), will descend from the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3). But the day of the Lord won't immediately bring the destruction of earth's atmosphere and surface. For the day of the Lord will begin at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8) as a thief (2 Peter 3:10a, Revelation 16:15). And after his 2nd coming, he will establish his kingdom physically on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21).

And after the 1,000 years, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). And after its defeat, at least 7 more years will occur (Ezekiel 39:9b), before the earth's atmosphere and surface are destroyed at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). All these events, from Jesus' 2nd coming to the great white throne judgment, will be part of the day of the Lord. For it's not a 24-hour day, but to God is like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).

shturt678s said in post 119:

For those of you that like to interpret Revelation literally, ie, this is a literal bite of the figurative whole.

Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it is unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning that it should not be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it is written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

shturt678s said in post 119:

Here we get only one glimpse of the end of the world, ie, the next of the total seven is at 7:9-17.

Note that Revelation 7:9-17 doesn't say or require that the end of the world will occur at that time. Instead, in Revelation 7:9-17 the great multitude can simply be that part of the church (Revelation 7:14b) which will enter the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and then come out of it (Revelation 7:14) and enter heaven (Revelation 7:15) by dying (cf. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8) during the 2nd through 6th seals in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6), the tribulation's first stage.

This would be similar to how the souls of "them that were slain for the word of God", who will be under the altar in heaven at the 5th seal (Revelation 6:9-11), will enter heaven by dying sometime before the 5th seal. And it would be similar to how those in the church who will be on the sea of glass in heaven (Revelation 15:2, cf. Revelation 12:11) at the tribulation's 7 last plagues (Revelation chapters 15-16), the tribulation's final stage, will enter heaven by dying during the just-preceding, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).