Could you share with us the verses that detail the existence of these ceremonial laws and moral laws

Mercy74

Mercy Messianic Judaism
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So women (e.g. mothers) can circumcise also, as in Zipporah's case.

When did G-d command Zipporah to perform the circumcision?

Hence this was the first circumcision of the sons of Israel. The second (in Joshua's time) was when they had allowed themselves into uncircumcision again (by not circumcising males on the eighth day).

Did Zipporah circumcise Moses son on the 8th day? Now what she did made a "concession" or "peace" between YHWH and Moses; but it is obvious that "fleshy" circumcision was Moses responsibility. YHWH was angry with Moses not Zipporah.
 
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Thera

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When did G-d command Zipporah to perform the circumcision?
The man is the head of the woman. God commanded circumcision - I don't think it mattered who did it. But the man was responsible.

Did Zipporah circumcise Moses son on the 8th day? Now what she did made a "concession" or "peace" between YHWH and Moses; but it is obvious that "fleshy" circumcision was Moses responsibility. YHWH was angry with Moses not Zipporah.
I doubt it. Moses was responsible for circumcision, as the head of the family. However, Zipporah stepping in saved Moses' life. So it isn't that women are prohibited from circumcising.
 
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Mercy74

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The man is the head of the woman. God commanded circumcision - I don't think it mattered who did it. But the man was responsible.

I doubt it. Moses was responsible for circumcision, as the head of the family. However, Zipporah stepping in saved Moses' life. So it isn't that women are prohibited from circumcising.
G-d commanded Abraham (the father of Isaac) to circumcise his son on the 8th day. When did G-d command a woman to perform the circumcision? So I think it does matter who G-d commanded to perform the circumcision so that we keep the whole law.
 
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Thera

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G-d commanded Abraham (the father of Isaac) to circumcise his son on the 8th day.
God commanded Abraham and his seed to circumcise their males. Are females not also the seed of Abraham?

When did G-d command a woman to perform the circumcision?
As we've mentioned, Zipporah averted God's wrath on Moses by circumcising. I don't think it really mattered who did the circumcision, or what tool s/he used, just so long as it was done. Isn't it sexist to exclude female involvement in the covenant, when the covenant was for male and female?

So I think it does matter who G-d commanded to perform the circumcision so that we keep the whole law.
The man is the head of the family. But that isn't to say that women can't play a role. Zipporah circumcised Moses' son. Eunice was the reason Timothy could be circumcised.
 
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Mercy74

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God commanded Abraham and his seed to circumcise their males. Are females not also the seed of Abraham?

Let us be clear, G-d commanded Abraham to circumcise every male (not just his descendants); Abraham is a male.

Genesis 17:10-11
This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.

As we've mentioned, Zipporah averted God's wrath on Moses by circumcising. I don't think it really mattered who did the circumcision, or what tool s/he used, just so long as it was done. Isn't it sexist to exclude female involvement in the covenant, when the covenant was for male and female?

The man is the head of the family. But that isn't to say that women can't play a role. Zipporah circumcised Moses' son. Eunice was the reason Timothy could be circumcised.

I asked you earlier, to name a woman G-d commanded to perform circumcision. We agreed that G-d never commanded Zipporah to perform the circumcision. Paul was circumcised on the 8th day, Paul circumcised Timothy. Timothy had a greek father.
 
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Thera

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Let us be clear, G-d commanded Abraham to circumcise every male (not just his descendants); Abraham is a male.

Genesis 17:10-11
This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.
Did Abraham only have male descendants? Did God say His covenant was only for male descendants? The covenant was for the circumcision of males, yes, but it was with Abraham and all his descendants, not only the male descendants.

I asked you earlier, to name a woman G-d commanded to perform circumcision. We agreed that G-d never commanded Zipporah to perform the circumcision.
I think God only commanded circumcision twice, and that was to two men. But by the same logic, He was only going to punish uncircumcision once, and that was remedied by a woman. Whether or not God commanded Zipporah, her actions satisfied the Lord's anger. The point I'm making is that the covenant doesn't specify who was to hold the izmel.

Paul was circumcised on the 8th day, Paul circumcised Timothy. Timothy had a greek father.
So Paul circumcised Timothy because he was a descendant of Abraham, through his mother? Therefore, Timothy's mother, Eunice, was a descendant of Abraham. Therefore, according to the covenant, the covenant applied to her also. After all, why else would Paul have circumcised Timothy?
 
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Mercy74

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Did Abraham only have male descendants? Did God say His covenant was only for male descendants? The covenant was for the circumcision of males, yes, but it was with Abraham and all his descendants, not only the male descendants.

I think God only commanded circumcision twice, and that was to two men. But by the same logic, He was only going to punish uncircumcision once, and that was remedied by a woman. Whether or not God commanded Zipporah, her actions satisfied the Lord's anger. The point I'm making is that the covenant doesn't specify who was to hold the izmel.

So Paul circumcised Timothy because he was a descendant of Abraham, through his mother? Therefore, Timothy's mother, Eunice, was a descendant of Abraham. Therefore, according to the covenant, the covenant applied to her also. After all, why else would Paul have circumcised Timothy?
Only the male descendants participated in circumcision. G-d explicitly says "every male among you" not just Abraham's descendants. Abraham circumcised his male servants as well.
 
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Thera

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Only the male descendants participated in circumcision. G-d explicitly says "every male among you" not just Abraham's descendants. Abraham circumcised his male servants as well.
Every male among you shall be circumcised. Not every male among you shall circumcise. The commandment to circumcise was to Abraham and his seed. Are females the seed of Abraham? If yes, then surely the commandment was to females also.

The requirement for circumcision wasn't just for those born in Abraham's house - it was for all males in Israel, whether born or bought or serving. Could females own male slaves? If so, surely the command was to them. Could male children be born to females, whose husbands, for whatever reason, did not or could not circumcise the males? As in Zipporah's case?
 
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Mercy74

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Every male among you shall be circumcised. Not every male among you shall circumcise. The commandment to circumcise was to Abraham and his seed. Are females the seed of Abraham? If yes, then surely the commandment was to females also.

The requirement for circumcision wasn't just for those born in Abraham's house - it was for all males in Israel, whether born or bought or serving. Could females own male slaves? If so, surely the command was to them. Could male children be born to females, whose husbands, for whatever reason, did not or could not circumcise the males? As in Zipporah's case?
Where is it written that YHWH commanded one female to circumcise? Did YHWH command Sarah or Zipporah to perform circumcision? You have failed to provide scriptural support for your opinion. Zipporah performed circumcision, so you say "it doesn't matter who performs the circumcision"; yet you seem to ignore the fact that YHWH was angry with Moses. It is clear that YHWH commanded Abraham to circumcise every male among him. Sarah did not participate in the circumcision; she gave birth to Isaac. So now you want the mother to give birth to the son of promise, then you want her also to perform the circumcision on the 8th day. The mother gives birth; the father or priest performs the fleshly circumcision on the 8th day WITHout hands.
 
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