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Could this generation of creationists be the last?

Insane_Duck

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There is a reason Christianity hasn't gotten anywhere in eastern countries. It's a cultural thing, it has been part of western civilization since the Romans, but you can't just evangelize to countries and expect people to listen.

The only reason Africa has a large christian population is because it was penetrated and infiltrated, quite forcibly, by Christian Missionaries. And then there is the whole slavery thing...
 
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Inan3

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You are mixing unrelated things. The CIA as source... so what other than an easy place to look up numbers.

I'm not sure what you are saying but did you know that what I copied and pasted came from the CIA site?

Sophistication-you wont agree but tht is how i see it. Certainly china had too strong a culture for Christianity to penetrate well they way it was able to overwhelm the defeated american natives.

But God AND Christianity ARE penetrating China.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/china_705/

There are more miracles happening in China than most people know about. God is working through the lives of Christian Chinese who have suffered great things at the hands of Atheist China. God is FOR the Chinese people and He will help ALL those that call on Him. Even those atheists who have brought the torture and persecution upon His people.


It is not the intent to change the culture because it is a beautiful culture. It is important that people have the opportunity to choose God though. Atheist China has no right to keep that choice from the people. God will get in where ever people cry out for Him and there are many people in China doing that. Everyone should have that right to choose.


You will probably disagree but Christianity is not all about condemnation. Christianity is about love. It is a way OUT OF condemnation.

As for the trafficking, i am aware of that, and i'd guess i have known more about it longer than you-just a guess. We have it here in the USA too of course, tho on a much smaller scale. It's one of the worst things that exists in the world, and it goes on all around us, and nobody seems to be interested.

I'm not going to argue that, Hespera. Regardless of where it is at, it is wrong and every attempt must be made to stop it. There are those who are very interested and work to stop it. World Vision is a Christian organization that helps children and women on multiple levels. Human trafficking and sex tourism and abuse are a big part of that effort. I supported them for 7-8 years and if I hadn't lost my job for awhile I would still have been doing so. If I go back to supporting them I will be more involved in this particular area because my heart goes out to these women and children.


http://www.worldvision.org/news.nsf/news/200801_mongolia_youth_farm?Open&wvsrc=enews&lpos=fea_txt_publicationindex_MONGOLIA_YOUTH_FARM

http://www.worldvision.org/content.nsf/about/press-development-girls


"God" does not seem to be doing anything about it but maybe some day people will wake up.. i think it will just get wore, tho worldwide. i dont know if americans are too sophisticated or too what to be bothered to know about slavery and exploitation here in this country too. What do you think?

As I showed you above and in other posts God does care and He uses His people to do what needs to be done to help.

And btw, again, i did not call you stupid in this or any other thread, and it wasnt actually that great for you to say that I did. I think that is better settled than just put aside with us both feeling wrong was done.

I dont' live in the past and as far as I'm concerned that is where it can stay.
 
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Insane_Duck

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But God AND Christianity ARE penetrating China.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/china_705/
Not quite, the actual article refers to a (semi) hidden group of Christians who struggle to practice openly because of the communist government. It doesn't say that they've spread at all from the meager numbers they started with. Or converted any Chinese.

Read the "Read more" section. It has nothing to do with the short summary you gave me. I call B.S.
 
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Inan3

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Not quite, the actual article refers to a (semi) hidden group of Christians who struggle to practice openly because of the communist government. It doesn't say that they've spread at all from the meager numbers they started with. Or converted any Chinese.

Read the "Read more" section. It has nothing to do with the short summary you gave me. I call B.S.


Well, that is not my only source of info but I won't be putting some here because of the problems it causes those who are underground but it is not B.S. God IS on the move in China. You just don't want to admit it.

Also, I think you need to REread the article. What you got and what I get are totally different.
 
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Insane_Duck

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Well, that is not my only source of info but I won't be putting some here because of the problems it causes those who are underground but it is not B.S. God IS on the move in China. You just don't want to admit it.

Also, I think you need to REread the article. What you got and what I get are totally different.
I did, nothing about Christianity spreading in the region. Give me the quote of the specific part you think says that. And if you can't provide evidence in the article or from another source I'm afraid you won't get many to believe you.

I guess it did mention they were forced to relocate multiple times...
 
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Hespera

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I'm not sure what you are saying but did you know that what I copied and pasted came from the CIA site?



But God AND Christianity ARE penetrating China.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/china_705/

There are more miracles happening in China than most people know about. God is working through the lives of Christian Chinese who have suffered great things at the hands of Atheist China. God is FOR the Chinese people and He will help ALL those that call on Him. Even those atheists who have brought the torture and persecution upon His people.


It is not the intent to change the culture because it is a beautiful culture. It is important that people have the opportunity to choose God though. Atheist China has no right to keep that choice from the people. God will get in where ever people cry out for Him and there are many people in China doing that. Everyone should have that right to choose.


You will probably disagree but Christianity is not all about condemnation. Christianity is about love. It is a way OUT OF condemnation.



I'm not going to argue that, Hespera. Regardless of where it is at, it is wrong and every attempt must be made to stop it. There are those who are very interested and work to stop it. World Vision is a Christian organization that helps children and women on multiple levels. Human trafficking and sex tourism and abuse are a big part of that effort. I supported them for 7-8 years and if I hadn't lost my job for awhile I would still have been doing so. If I go back to supporting them I will be more involved in this particular area because my heart goes out to these women and children.


http://www.worldvision.org/news.nsf/news/200801_mongolia_youth_farm?Open&wvsrc=enews&lpos=fea_txt_publicationindex_MONGOLIA_YOUTH_FARM

http://www.worldvision.org/content.nsf/about/press-development-girls




As I showed you above and in other posts God does care and He uses His people to do what needs to be done to help.



I dont' live in the past and as far as I'm concerned that is where it can stay.

'm not sure what you are saying but did you know that what I copied and pasted came from the CIA site?
not worth hashing out

But God AND Christianity ARE penetrating China.

Christianity is having some limited success. There are an awful lot of people there,you can find someone doing most anything. In general chinese have no use for it.


You will probably disagree but Christianity is not all about condemnation. Christianity is about love. It is a way OUT OF condemnation.

My view of the religion involves neither of those things.

I dont' live in the past and as far as I'm concerned that is where it can stay

i like to take responsibility for what I say or do, but suit yourself.
 
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Inan3

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I did, nothing about Christianity spreading in the region. Give me the quote of the specific part you think says that. And if you can't provide evidence in the article or from another source I'm afraid you won't get many to believe you.

I guess it did mention they were forced to relocate multiple times...

"Today, Zhang and the rest of his congregation have left the caves, as Christianity is beginning to emerge from the shadows in China"

"But the government’s attempts to control the underground church have largely failed to diminish their faith. "

" But in recent years, the official church has grown dramatically, running services to accommodate more than 4,000 people on Sundays. "
"A former pastor in the government’s official church, Jin Mingri broke away last year to start his own church, Zion"
"For a time, Zhang ran his own house church, but today he runs an alliance of house churches all around the country "

"In what was once the land of Mao, there are thought to be as many Christians as Communist Party members. Even China’s new business class is getting religion. "

From a link on the article:

"Today, there are an estimated 10 to 12 million Chinese Catholics and 25 to 30 million Chinese Protestants."
 
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AV1611VET

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Christianity is having some limited success.
What do you consider 'Christian success'?

Does the Bible prophesy 100% conversion in the last times; or just the opposite?

As I see it, Bible prophecy is unfolding before our very eyes; and we're right were It says we will be when the LORD returns.

So it's hard for me to understand what you're talking about when you say, 'limited success.'
 
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Insane_Duck

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"Today, Zhang and the rest of his congregation have left the caves, as Christianity is beginning to emerge from the shadows in China"

"But the government’s attempts to control the underground church have largely failed to diminish their faith. "

" But in recent years, the official church has grown dramatically, running services to accommodate more than 4,000 people on Sundays. "
"A former pastor in the government’s official church, Jin Mingri broke away last year to start his own church, Zion"
"For a time, Zhang ran his own house church, but today he runs an alliance of house churches all around the country "

"In what was once the land of Mao, there are thought to be as many Christians as Communist Party members. Even China’s new business class is getting religion. "

From a link on the article:

"Today, there are an estimated 10 to 12 million Chinese Catholics and 25 to 30 million Chinese Protestants."
Coming out of the shadows has nothing to do with numbers or growth. Just becoming more public.

All around the country also has nothing to do with growth, see Jews in america, they are a tiny tiny fraction of the population but are non the less common. I think you underestimate the Chinese population in a few of those quotes as well.

Infact, the only interesting (and the only step toward your point) is the last fact. Where is this link? I don't see it in the article. So far your claim goes unfounded.
 
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Inan3

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Coming out of the shadows has nothing to do with numbers or growth. Just becoming more public.

All around the country also has nothing to do with growth, see Jews in america, they are a tiny tiny fraction of the population but are non the less common. I think you underestimate the Chinese population in a few of those quotes as well.

Infact, the only interesting (and the only step toward your point) is the last fact. Where is this link? I don't see it in the article. So far your claim goes unfounded.

FRONTLINE/World . Jesus in China History | PBS
 
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Inan3

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I'm not sure what you are saying but did you know that what I copied and pasted came from the CIA site?
not worth hashing out.

I was asking you a simple question not trying to "hash" anything out. Why can't it ever be simple with you, Hespera?


And btw, again, i did not call you stupid in this or any other thread, and it wasnt actually that great for you to say that I did. I think that is better settled than just put aside with us both feeling wrong was done.
I dont' live in the past and as far as I'm concerned that is where it can stay.
Once again I was just trying to say, "It's okay, I have no hard feelings. Let's just forget about it. Let's go on from here." But now it appears to me that "you" are suggesting that "I" am not taking responsibility for what I say or do when you say....
i like to take responsibility for what I say or do, but suit yourself.
So... since you don't seem to WANT to let it go. Here we go again. You're right you didn't say "stupid" you said "dumb". But then again, I didn't say you said "stupid", I said "don't call me dumb OR MY SUGGESTIONS." Below is what you said. Now "you" can take responsibility for what YOU said and admit you said it. After all it is right here in black and white. Please can we NOW just go on from here?

Now that is plain insulting and dumb. (I made bold)

I really don't want all the drama, Hespera
 
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Orogeny

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What do you consider 'Christian success'?

Does the Bible prophesy 100% conversion in the last times; or just the opposite?

As I see it, Bible prophecy is unfolding before our very eyes; and we're right were It says we will be when the LORD returns.

So it's hard for me to understand what you're talking about when you say, 'limited success.'

So you'd rather see a failure of conversion than see earth's entire population praising Jesus?

That is just awful.
 
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Insane_Duck

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Inan3

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Fair enough.

Christian Statistics

^^^ It's still only 5.7 percent. Hardly an impact at all. And I believe that the link claims a higher number of Christians than your link does. I think you're numbers are much less impressive in the scope of China's population. Here is Wikipedia on it:

Christianity by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For a country that is atheist CONTROLLED 5.7% is a good thing. Doesn't take much for God to multiply. He took a fish and a few loaves of bread and fed thousands. Besides that those statistics certainly are not taking into account the underground church because those figures are not being released.:)
 
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Inan3

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So you'd rather see a failure of conversion than see earth's entire population praising Jesus?

That is just awful.

I don't see he was saying that at all but rather just stating what the Bible says. I expect AV and I KNOW God is not willing that any persish but it's not up to them. God has done as much as He can do for mankind to be "converted." It's up to us/them to accept or reject at this point and the Bible gives us a summary of what the results will be.


Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity SHALL ABOUND the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

1Ti 4:1 The Spirit says clearly that some people will abandon the faith in later times; they will obey lying spirits and follow the teachings of demons.
1Ti 4:2 Such teachings are spread by deceitful liars, whose consciences are dead, as if burnt with a hot iron.

No one WANTS this to happen but it will happen. Our safety is to draw near to the Lord.

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Pro 4:13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.
Pro 4:14 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.
Pro 4:15 Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away.
Pro 4:16 For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall.
Pro 4:17 For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.
Pro 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
Pro 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

*bold and capitalization was added by me
 
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Insane_Duck

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For a country that is atheist CONTROLLED 5.7% is a good thing. Doesn't take much for God to multiply. He took a fish and a few loaves of bread and fed thousands. Besides that those statistics certainly are not taking into account the underground church because those figures are not being released.:)
The figures aren't released... but you know?

Atheism is mandated or the country is controlled by atheists? Some well off and open-minded countries are controlled primarily by atheists, but they were elected by the large atheist population. (parts of Europe) Last I checked, China allows it's citizens to practice religion (however, in a forcibly limited fashion) And other religions have spread much wider.

5.7 percent isn't the religious population it is the Christian population. My point is Hinduism and Buddhism are already there, and Christianity hasn't, in fact, made a dent in the Chinese culture.

And God hasn't done much multiplying in the last two hundred years or so westerner have been trying to convert china. Why is that? And why do you expect it to change.

No, Christianity will likely never make an impact into China's culture. And it is dwarfed by other religions there, like Buddhism.
 
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Inan3

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The figures aren't released... but you know?
That's the whole nature of "underground"!! You saw the article.

And it is dwarfed by other religions there, like Buddhism.

This is true but will not always be true BECAUSE God HAS been working in the last two hundred years.
 
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Insane_Duck

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This is true but will not always be true BECAUSE God HAS been working in the last two hundred years.
1. Fine, but you can't exactly expect me to just take your word for that.
2. That's my point. If he has been working, he's been doing it at an unprecedentedly slow rate. You expect that to change why?
 
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Inan3

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1. Fine, but you can't exactly expect me to just take your word for that.
2. That's my point. If he has been working, he's been doing it at an unprecedentedly slow rate. You expect that to change why?

Answer 1. Nope You can believe what you want... your choice

Answer 2. Now you nor I know whether that is true or not do we?? We can only speculate what God might or might not being doing in cases like this. We don't know what's been going on behind the scenes nor how long it has taken.
 
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