Could the Church survive without the scriptures?

Tone said:

Yes, the people. When I speak of Church (which I only do so Christians understand me) I am speaking of the people.

To speak of His Presence means that there has to be a locus.

No, because they were still there.



We, who believe are the Israelites.

The Word is in us and we are in the Word...abiding.

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Well if ALL of God's people were gone, this whole discussion would be moot.

But in this particular discussion, I was referring more to the various religious structures that have been built up that are commonly referred to as "the Church". If all of those collapsed tomorrow, our faith would still exist. But I feel that there is as much dependency by some Christians on "the Church" meaning some form or fashion of religious structure, as there are by other Christians on the Bible."

bekkilyn said:

the various religious structures that have been built up that are commonly referred to as "the Church"

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Oh yes...the boundaries.


Yes, those that are not His Word should be razed.

Actually, we should just rise above...why waste time.

It's interesting that "church" comes from the same root as circle.

"church (n.)
Old English cirice, circe "place of assemblage set aside for Christian worship; the body of Christian believers, Christians collectively; ecclesiastical authority or power," from Proto-Germanic *kirika (source also of Old Saxon kirika, Old Norse kirkja, Old Frisian zerke, Middle Dutch kerke, Dutch kerk, Old High German kirihha, German Kirche).

This is probably [see extensive note in OED] borrowed via an unrecorded Gothic word from Greek kyriake (oikia), kyriakon doma "the Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord," from PIE root *keue- "to swell" ("swollen," hence "strong, powerful")."

And, as seen above it comes from a word meaning lord or ruler.


So, we have many many boundaries (circles) that are ruled by many many different rulers, if you will...creeds, statements of faith, governing bodies, etc...


So, if the question is, "Can those institutions (as described above) survive without the Bible?"

I would say yes...yes, of course...in fact, we have many many other such institutions that have nothing to do with the Bible: businesses/corporations, social clubs, schools, etc...


But, I stand by my answer that the Called Out Ones (Ecclesia) couldn't survive without this proper boundary from the world. Not, while in these physical bodies. We are called out to walk, more like in a line than a circle...towards the land of promise. Well, eventually, we know that we will all fly, far above the circle of the earth with all of its circles within circles...



And what I mean is that the written Word would be brought to mind, whether by memory, or special Spiritual unction, and it will be what is written...or what was written in the hypothetical scenario.

public hermit said:

Assuming some series of unforeseen events took place in which the scriptures became virtually inaccessible, or at least very difficult to acquire, could the Church persist without the scriptures?

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If every vestige of the Scriptures--written, electronic, and memorized--was annihilated, the Church would not survive for very long. It would be like removing the foundation from a house and waiting for a hard rain, or removing the heart from the body and waiting for it to die.

On the related question of whether Scriptures are required for religion, I think they are basically required. Every religion requires a focal point to organize itself around, and if that focal point is more complicated than simple nature worship then language will need to be employed in order to propagate and preserve it. If it is deemed sufficiently valuable and persists for a long period of time, then oral transmission will give way to written transmission. The oral and written communications will assume a sacred character due to their proximity to the sacred focal point that they communicate. This is all the more true when speaking of revealed religions: "faiths" in the true sense.

She must abide in Spirit and in Truth.

Tone said:

She must abide in Spirit and in Truth.

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Do you realize that there's a typo in your signature: "Cause I already know Yahuah is my Savior; He upholds me against all evil. In Yahshua ha Mashiach's Name"

Don't you mean that Yahshua is your savior, not Yahuah?

public hermit said:

We know the Church existed prior to the writing of the New Testament. Assuming some series of unforeseen events took place in which the scriptures became virtually inaccessible, or at least very difficult to acquire, could the Church persist without the scriptures? Or, without the New Testament?

I have my doubts it could. I don't think it impossible, but wonder about the integrity and consistency of the proclamation. Then again, it started out as an oral transmission (but still heavily dependent on the Hebrew scriptures). I'm curious what people think.

What do you think?

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There is no Church without scripture (God's Word). The Church is based on scripture which is what the Church has faith in or is the faith of the Church. The scriptures of the new testament comes from the scriptures of the old testament. The Christian faith is based on the old testament that testified of the coming Messiah - Christ. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles (the beginning of the Church today) their bible was the old testament scriptures and it was these scriptures that testified of Jesus. So no there can be no Church without scripture as the scriptures are the faith of the Church and faith in them is how we are saved *John 17:17 and believing the scriptures and following them make us a part of God's Church *John 10:26-27 and the sheep of the true Shepard.

pescador said:

Do you realize that there's a typo in your signature: "Cause I already know Yahuah is my Savior; He upholds me against all evil. In Yahshua ha Mashiach's Name"

Don't you mean that Yahshua is your savior, not Yahuah?

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Isaiah 43:11
"I , I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me."