Could someone explain me evolution & Big Bang?

Subduction Zone · Dec 5, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Again, thank you for the QED.

Poor AV, he does not realize that if Hovind indeed was a liar and a scoundrel and a crooked tax cheat who preaches for money and not for Jesus that he would be exactly where he is today.

So AV, what evidence do you have to counter any of my claims?

None.

You know he is a liar. He can't "debate" without lying.

You know he is a convicted tax cheat. He thought he could get away with his nonsense and found out he couldn't.

You do know that the IRS does not really want to put anyone behind bars. If you pay the tax you owe, plus moderate penalties for breaking the law, they will let you go. Hovind was not even smart enough to cut a deal. The thought of all of that money made him crazy and greedy.

AV1611VET · Dec 5, 2013

Subduction Zone said:
Poor AV, he does not realize that if Hovind indeed was a liar and a scoundrel and a crooked tax cheat who preaches for money and not for Jesus that he would be exactly where he is today.

So AV, what evidence do you have to counter any of my claims?

None.

You know he is a liar. He can't "debate" without lying.

You know he is a convicted tax cheat. He thought he could get away with his nonsense and found out he couldn't.

You do know that the IRS does not really want to put anyone behind bars. If you pay the tax you owe, plus moderate penalties for breaking the law, they will let you go. Hovind was not even smart enough to cut a deal. The thought of all of that money made him crazy and greedy.

My point is that Mr. Hovind uses a giant screen to justify what he is saying.

Can you do otherwise with the same points he makes?

Subduction Zone · Dec 5, 2013

AV1611VET said:
My point is that Mr. Hovind uses a giant screen to justify what he is saying.

Can you do otherwise with the same points he makes?

Wow, it doesn't take too much impress you.

So a lie on a big screen seems reasonable to you?

Don't go to any IMAX movies.

Subduction Zone · Dec 5, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Again, thank you for the QED.

It is not a "QED" if the charges are true. Guess what, the charges are true.

mzungu · Dec 6, 2013

Subduction Zone said:
Wow, it doesn't take too much impress you.

So a lie on a big screen seems reasonable to you?

Don't go to any IMAX movies.

bhsmte · Dec 6, 2013

Subduction Zone said:
Wow, it doesn't take too much impress you.

So a lie on a big screen seems reasonable to you?

Don't go to any IMAX movies.

You didn't know that a big screen makes lies true?

Ginger123 · Dec 6, 2013

AV1611VET said:
I wonder if evolutionists shoot the messenger because creationists say evolution comes from the Devil, then shoot the devil?

I've told you before, we only shoot the messenger if the messenger deliberately gives false information,
Kent Hovine specialises in giving false information, he's well known for it, everyone knows it's his trademark,
the only people who don't laugh at Kent Hovine are creationists, he plays on this and laughs all the way to the bank,
he is a cheat a thief and a swindler and creationists deserve everything they get from him.

mzungu · Dec 6, 2013

Ginger123 said:
I've told you before, we only shoot the messenger if the messenger deliberately gives false information,
Kent Hovine specialises in giving false information, he's well known for it, everyone knows it's his trademark,
the only people who don't laugh at Kent Hovine are creationists, he plays on this and laughs all the way to the bank.

Kent Hovind is a known criminal serving time. This man sold religion like it was a commodity. He has no scruples when it comes to bearing false witness! This is a man with no morals and a worshipper of Mammon!

Ginger123 · Dec 6, 2013

Oncedeceived said:
Oh is he on youtube?

Oncedeceived said:
Thanks AV. I find it troubling that he has been sent to prison for tax evasion. I understand that people can and do make mistakes and do wrong, but when you are a person who makes their lives open to the public it is paramount to be as much as a reflection of Christ as humanly possible. So that is a somewhat quick response to some of the links that came up. I haven't listened to the video yet because I have my family around and they hate when I play them while watching t.v.

If you have genuinely never heard of Kent Hovine I apologise for speaking out of turn.

Watching this man tell lies could be the thing that helps you escape creationism, please watch them all,
and also read why he was sent to prison.

driewerf · Dec 6, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Even if he was lying ... and in no way do I believe he was ...

But even if he was lying, he puts contradictions and errors right up on a giant projector and highlights them, citing the sources for everyone to check for themselves.

In doing so, he gets called a "liar."

Evolutionists use his conviction in non-theological matters as a smoke screen to mask his actual points.

Here is a sentence after sentence analysis of a Hovind debate.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7505510/

He is clearly lying in it.

Now, if you are referencing to Hovind's video where he tells a conversation with a professor in an airplane (one of Hovind's famous videos). I want to go through it sentence after sentence with you.

driewerf · Dec 6, 2013

AV1611VET said:
My point is that Mr. Hovind uses a giant screen to justify what he is saying.

Can you do otherwise with the same points he makes?

Yet, what he says and what is (was) on the screen are lies.
Nice of him to use a screen. Lies remain lies. If you want, we go sentence after sentence through his conference.

WisdomTree · Dec 6, 2013

WisdomTree said:
Just a quick question for the OP: Are you implying that Einstein came up with the Big Bang Theory?

In case the OP comes back...

AV1611VET · Dec 6, 2013

Ginger123 said:
I've told you before, we only shoot the messenger if the messenger deliberately gives false information,

How can he give false information when he's got a school textbook up on a giant screen with things in it even you guys would disagree with?

AV1611VET · Dec 6, 2013

driewerf said:
Yet, what he says and what is (was) on the screen are lies.

And what is on the screen is what kids are being taught in school today.

Ginger123 · Dec 6, 2013

AV1611VET said:
How can he give false information when he's got a school textbook up on a giant screen with things in it even you guys would disagree with?

He says one thing that's true along with twenty lies, that's an old con trick, that way no one can say it's all lies.

Kent Hovine is an out and out liar and he gets away with it because creationists do not check out his lies,
why don't they? because they want what he says to be true and could not care less if they are lies,
he is not there to convince non believers he's there to make money from believers, as far as he is concerned non believers can laugh all they like just as long as he's making money, if creationists stopped believing him he would change his tactics overnight and tell them something completely different.

AV1611VET · Dec 6, 2013

Ginger123 said:
He says one thing that's true along with twenty lies, that's an old con trick, that way no one can say it's all lies.

Then let a 10-year old just stand there and click the images on the screen and not say anything at all.

That would make my point just as well.

Or you do it.

You stand there and just click the images and let the lies on the screen speak for themselves.

How's that?

Or would you, as I suspect, rather shoot the messenger?

Ginger123 · Dec 6, 2013

Then why is Kent Hovine used to beat creationists? you don't need me to tell you he tells lies check it out for yourself,
you won't because you want to believe what he says is true and the very last thing you want is to find out he's a liar,
you would rather lie to yourself, you're trapped in your bubble and you can't escape.

AV1611VET · Dec 6, 2013

Ginger123 said:
Then why is Kent Hovine used to beat creationists? you don't need me to tell you he tells lies check it out for yourself,
you won't because you want to believe what he says is true and the very last thing you want is to find out he's a liar,
you would rather lie to yourself, you're trapped in your bubble and you can't escape.

Fine ... then you stand there and explain the images he shows on that giant screen pertaining to school (and college) textbooks.

mzungu · Dec 6, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Fine ... then you stand there and explain the images he shows on that giant screen pertaining to school (and college) textbooks.

http://www.christianforums.com/t796091/#post9058379

selfinflikted · Dec 6, 2013

Strathos said:
So basically, you're saying I can't be trusted to accept certain things now because I might learn they are wrong in the future?

Isn't that the exact same argument creationists like AV use against the scientific method? "Science has been wrong about things before, so all current scientific knowledge is unreliable because it might be disproven tomorrow".

Yes, I could see AV using an argument like that. However, that is how science works. Science evolves and is self-correcting, which is why it works. Conversely, the Bible allegedly contains Truths that never change. So while our understanding of reality changes with new information, the Bible will remain largely unchanged. And with each new refinement of knowledge, the Bible is subject to be proven wrong again and again (or proven correct). That's why I made the tongue in cheek remark that eventually the Bible will contain nothing but metaphor.

Wiccan_Child said:
(I only just found this post!)

The Bible's literal content will tend towards the amount that is truly literally accurate. If some of it is literally true (there was indeed a country called Egypt ruled by Pharaohs), then that part will remain literal. The extraneous parts will be relegated to metaphor/exaggeration, but some will remain literal.

So Genesis 1 is metaphorical because it turns out to be factually incorrect. This doesn't mean it 'becomes' metaphorical, but rather that it was always metaphorical - we just didn't know it. All verses/stories are taken as a 'dunno' until we can conclude they're literal or not. If they contradict reality, we can make that decision.

Well of course there are literal people and places in the Bible. That's not the content I was talking about, although if you missed the smiley at the end of the post, one might conclude that I meant that everything in the Bible would end up being metaphorical. I was only being half serious

Could someone explain me evolution & Big Bang?

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