Could reconciliation with the SSPX arrive with ease?

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Vatican City, Apr 26, 2016 / 04:01 am (EWTN News/CNA).- Pope Francis may soon offer the Society of Saint Pius X regular canonical status within the Church, without requiring the acceptance of certain texts of the Second Vatican Council with which they disagree.

Link Below;
http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=13587

 

[Davidnic]

It would be interesting to see how it is structured. I would think that in the year of Mercy it is a step the Pope would take and my guess is if it happens there would be an ongoing dialog over points of difference. I think all we can do is humbly pray the wisdom of the Holy Spirit guides the successor of Peter and all who seek unity.

If it happens it will be historically fascinating to look at the steps taken by Benedict XVI and Pope Francis in comparison and contrast.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

If its fine for them to dismiss certain parts of Vatican II then it should be allowed to all catholics dont you think David?
Doesnt this undermind the whole council?

 

[anjelica]

This is indeed very interesting.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

This is indeed very interesting.

Yes indeed and if its happening during pope Francis pontificate its very wird.
Well twist and turns is the thing in our days it seems...

 

[pdudgeon]

i agree, it will be as interesting to see the structure of the reconcilliation if it comes,
as it will be to see when it comes.

 

[mea kulpa]

If its fine for them to dismiss certain parts of Vatican II then it should be allowed to all catholics dont you think David?
Doesnt this undermind the whole council?

Well pope paul vi and pope benedict xvi both said that the council did not have the same weight as other councils.

I feel that the pastoral need of vatican 2 is coming to an end and when complete the regularisation of the sspx will contribute to the restoration of the faith.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I just hope SSPX bring something of their own to the table...

 

[Davidnic]

If its fine for them to dismiss certain parts of Vatican II then it should be allowed to all catholics dont you think David?
Doesnt this undermind the whole council?

Depends how it is done. I would find it odd if it is set up that they just do not have to adhere to the parts in contest. I would think that it would, if it happens, be phrased as unity with ongoing dialog to clarify the gap. An effort of extended love and mercy that together we can come to an understanding better than apart.

We have all had the discussion of what is meant by the authority of different councils and such, but giving a total pass on accepting would be very odd. I would guess it would be structured as part of an ongoing discussion rather than a done deal with no further dialog within the unity.

Which, to be positive, may provide a healthy framework and example for the laity divided on the issue as well. If they can come to unity and continued dialog without rejection on either side of views...it can give a road map down the line so to speak...to all the laity.

 

[MikeK]

If it is possible, I would love to see the SSPXers forgiven for rejecting the Church and brought back into full Communion with Her, even if they persist in their sin. Perfection should be our goal, but as humans we aren't always able to achieve it and sometimes we fall into sin even though we're doing our best with what we've got. I see SSPXers as very similar to "remarried" Catholics. Yes, what they are doing is clearly and objectively sinful, but that doesn't mean they have to be seperated from us. Ideally, we'd all repent of all of our sins, but I have to trust that Grace will cover a lot. If not, I'm in trouble.

 

[mea kulpa]

I just hope SSPX bring something of their own to the table...

I think if the sspx can get a regularisation without having to adhere to the second vatican council that in itself will be the thing they brought to the table... you just wonder what rome wants. You never know bishop felay might get a red hat too and maybe one day we may see a sspx pope

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

If it is possible, I would live to see the SSPXers forgiven for rejecting the Church and brought back into full Communion with Her, even if they persist in their sin. Perfection should be our goal, but as humans we aren't always able to achieve it and sometimes we fall into sin even though we're doing our best with what we've got. I see SSPXers as very similar to "remarried" Catholics. Yes, what they are doing is clearly and objectively sinful, but that doesn't mean they have to be seperated from us. Ideally, we'd all repent of all of our sins, but I have to trust that Grace will cover a lot. If not, I'm in trouble.

With all due respect Mike sspx is nothing like remarried catholics...
If one has to draw such parallel it's Rome who is remarried leaving her tridentine mass for modernism.
Not that I'm fan of this rather poor comparison of yours.

How is it objective sinful?
They vent along with Trent when in their eyes the church didn't.
If they felt it's a question between a pope and the popes they had to act as they did...

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I think if the sspx can get a regularisation without having to adhere to the second vatican council that in itself will be the thing they brought to the table... you just wonder what rome wants. You never know bishop felay might get a red hat too and maybe one day we may see a sspx pope

Felay as pope one day you say...
Not the worst imaginable scenario
orthodox Catholicism is more needed than ever especially in the west.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Perhaps it could happen if the note in the Appendix of Vatican II's Lumen Gentium is applied which says:

"Taking conciliar custom into consideration and also the pastoral purpose of the present Council, the sacred Council defines as binding on the Church only those things in matters of faith and morals which it shall openly declare to be binding. The rest of the things which the sacred Council sets forth, inasmuch as they are the teaching of the Church's supreme magisterium, ought to be accepted and embraced by each and every one of Christ's faithful according to the mind of the sacred Council. The mind of the Council becomes known either from the matter treated or from its manner of speaking, in accordance with the norms of theological interpretation." (Source)
.​

 

[Tallguy88]

Depends how it is done. I would find it odd if it is set up that they just do not have to adhere to the parts in contest. I would think that it would, if it happens, be phrased as unity with ongoing dialog to clarify the gap. An effort of extended love and mercy that together we can come to an understanding better than apart.

We have all had the discussion of what is meant by the authority of different councils and such, but giving a total pass on accepting would be very odd. I would guess it would be structured as part of an ongoing discussion rather than a done deal with no further dialog within the unity.

Which, to be positive, may provide a healthy framework and example for the laity divided on the issue as well. If they can come to unity and continued dialog without rejection on either side of views...it can give a road map down the line so to speak...to all the laity.

I know some Eastern Catholics fully reject the Filioque. So if they can do that and maintain full communion, I don't see why the SSPX can't reject Nostra Aetate, for example.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I know some Eastern Catholics fully reject the Filioque. So if they can do that and maintain full communion, I don't see why the SSPX can't reject Nostra Aetate, for example.

Good point.

 

[Albion]

Vatican City, Apr 26, 2016 / 04:01 am (EWTN News/CNA).- Pope Francis may soon offer the Society of Saint Pius X regular canonical status within the Church, without requiring the acceptance of certain texts of the Second Vatican Council with which they disagree.

Link Below;
http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=13587

Sooooooo an infallible council's decision would not be binding on Catholics considered to be in good standing?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Sooooooo an infallible council's decision would not be binding on Catholics considered to be in good standing?

There are infallible things written in Vatican II, but because the main goal of it was to be pastoral not every sentence in it is infallible (see post #14). For there to be a chance of bringing the SSPX Catholics back into union with Rome, the thing I think the Vatican would need to do is to come out with a statement that specifies which things in Vatican II are not binding. Vatican II itself assumes that the reader knows which things are not binding, and that's how there's confusion about it.

 

[Davidnic]

I think before we start saying what is and isn't binding on them we should see what the Vatican agrees to. And it's important to know that in the official Latin rite Creed in Greek text filiqoe has always been absent. so for Eastern Catholics it's not actually a change they are reciting the official text of the church.

But honestly we'll have to see what the Vatican says because there are some complicated nuances if they're truly thinking about doing what's in the article.

And some of those have ramifications for other teaching actually. So it really can't be as easy as come back and you don't have to accept this.

 

[MikeK]

With all due respect Mike sspx is nothing like remarried catholics...
If one has to draw such parallel it's Rome who is remarried leaving her tridentine mass for modernism.
Not that I'm fan of this rather poor comparison of yours.

Modernism? I don't think you understand what modernism is. The Church absolutely had the authority to take the measures they did against the SSPXers when they did. The error was by those in dissent, not by Rome. Should Pope Francis, in this time of forgiveness, welcome these rebels back into full communion in spite of their sins it will be because Christ's Church is merciful and tolerant of imperfections, not because the SSPXERS aren't in grave error. That is quite similar to the position of the "remarried" Catholic who cannot fully commit to what the known ideal is but can be dealt with pastorally.