Could Peter have done otherwise?

[Derf]

Do you understand that God wanted people to sin in order to have His Son crucified?

Or God knew people would sin. Not the same as wanting them to.

 

[Hammster]

Or God knew people would sin. Not the same as wanting them to.

He could have stopped them.

 

[bling]

He could have stopped them.

God at the end of time cannot change history, so if they have sinned then God at the end of time cannot go back and keep them from sinning.
Yes, God could have avoided creating humans and thus no human will ever sin.

 

[Hammster]

God at the end of time cannot change history, so if they have sinned then God at the end of time cannot go back and keep them from sinning.
Yes, God could have avoided creating humans and thus no human will ever sin.

I reject your emasculation of God.

Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases.
— Psalm 115:3

“I know that you can do all things,
and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
— Job 42:2

for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.
— Acts 4:27-28

 

[bling]

I reject your emasculation of God.

Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases.
— Psalm 115:3

“I know that you can do all things,
and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
— Job 42:2

for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.
— Acts 4:27-28

Emasculated:



(of a man) deprived of his male role or identity.

"insecure, emasculated men"

made weaker or less effective.

"an emasculated organization that is merely a shadow of its former self"

God’s Glorious Love is compelling God to provide humans with the free will to sin, so they can of their own free will, seek God’s help/Love/mercy/Grace/Forgiveness to obtain Godly type Love for themselves.

Does it emasculate God to point out His Love?

 

[Hammster]

Emasculated:



(of a man) deprived of his male role or identity.

"insecure, emasculated men"

made weaker or less effective.

"an emasculated organization that is merely a shadow of its former self"

God’s Glorious Love is compelling God to provide humans with the free will to sin, so they can of their own free will, seek God’s help/Love/mercy/Grace/Forgiveness to obtain Godly type Love for themselves.

Does it emasculate God to point out His Love?

It emasculates Him when you say He can’t do something that He certainly can do.

 

[Derf]

He could have stopped them.

He could stop people from sinning in a number of ways:
1. He could kill them (like He did with the flood)
2. He could lock them up (we're told He does this with demons at different points in time)
3. Or He could remove their ability to do anything except what He wants them to do, completely depriving them of agency (and their wills).

You are voting for that last one?

 

[Hammster]

He could stop people from sinning in a number of ways:
1. He could kill them (like He did with the flood)
2. He could lock them up (we're told He does this with demons at different points in time)
3. Or He could remove their ability to do anything except what He wants them to do, completely depriving them of agency (and their wills).

You are voting for that last one?

My argument is that He could stop sin. If He chooses not to, He has a purpose.

 

[Derf]

My argument is that He could stop sin. If He chooses not to, He has a purpose.

But isn't your argument also that He ordained the sin in the first place, before anyone was alive to consider doing the sin?

 

[Hammster]

But isn't your argument also that He ordained the sin in the first place, before anyone was alive to consider doing the sin?

Yes, put things in order. Thats what ordained means. For the cross to happen, sin needed to enter the world.

 

[bling]

It emasculates Him when you say He can’t do something that He certainly can do.

God knew what happened in our future, but God out of his unique unbelievable great Love (the Love that would allow deity to wash the feet of Judas) allows us of our own free will to sin.

 

[Hammster]

God knew what happened in our future, but God out of his unique unbelievable great Love (the Love that would allow deity to wash the feet of Judas) allows us of our own free will to sin.

Sometimes. Sometimes not. It depends on His purpose.

 

[Derf]

Yes, put things in order. Thats what ordained means. For the cross to happen, sin needed to enter the world.

No, ordain means to command (to "order" everything to occur), to make sure it happens.

ordain /ôr-dān′/

transitive verb​

1. To invest with ministerial or priestly authority; confer holy orders on.
   "ordain a priest."
2. To authorize as a rabbi.
3. To order or decree by virtue of superior authority.

Besides, the cross isn't necessary without sin. God could have just ordained everyone to be sinless, since that's the state He wants us in.

 

[bling]

Sometimes. Sometimes not. It depends on His purpose.

I think I am OK with that. God can allow us to think about some sinful act (which is sinning), yet we cannot do the act and God can just stop providing life to us and then we cannot even think about sinning.

 

[Hammster]

No, ordain means to command (to "order" everything to occur), to make sure it happens.

ordain /ôr-dān′/

transitive verb​

1. To invest with ministerial or priestly authority; confer holy orders on.
   "ordain a priest."
2. To authorize as a rabbi.
3. To order or decree by virtue of superior authority.

Besides, the cross isn't necessary without sin. God could have just ordained everyone to be sinless, since that's the state He wants us in.

Then there would have been no cross. That is the point of all of this. God was most glorified at the cross.

 

[Derf]

Then there would have been no cross. That is the point of all of this. God was most glorified at the cross.

So you're saying that God does evil that good may come? And He does evil to people that good may come to Himself? That's a strange way to talk about a God who is love.

 

[Hammster]

So you're saying that God does evil that good may come? And He does evil to people that good may come to Himself? That's a strange way to talk about a God who is love.

God doesn’t do evil.

 

[Derf]

God doesn’t do evil.

But God wants evil to happen, and God commands (ordains) that evil happen? You know that God's purposes cannot be thwarted. So, if God wants you and me to do evil, and it is "for His glory", and it cannot be thwarted, and we cannot question Him about it ("who are you, O man...?), there is no free will, people are not responsible for their sin, yet God punishes them for their sin.

Your theology is contradictory. It is of a kingdom divided against itself, which cannot stand.

 

[Hammster]

But God wants evil to happen, and God commands (ordains) that evil happen? You know that God's purposes cannot be thwarted. So, if God wants you and me to do evil, and it is "for His glory", and it cannot be thwarted, and we cannot question Him about it ("who are you, O man...?), there is no free will, people are not responsible for their sin, yet God punishes them for their sin.

Your theology is contradictory. It is of a kingdom divided against itself, which cannot stand.

I’ll try again. Was it evil for an innocent Man to be crucified?

 

[Derf]

I’ll try again. Was it evil for an innocent Man to be crucified?

Yes. Did God force them to crucify Christ?

Would you address my previous post?