Could an atheist go to heaven?

Wolfe said:

...
But I would like to know what everyone else thinks, please, reply with your thoughts.

Click to expand...

I think heaven means same as eternal life and eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

If atheist is righteous, he gets eternal life However I don’t see how righteous person could claim that God doesn’t exist.

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48

This is a long reply. I'm answering more than one person here even though I just quoted only one person.

LionL said:

Romans 2:12-16 implies that conscience, rather than religious belief, is enough to save someone (though you may interpret it as only applying to those who follow Christ who are not Jews).
Romans 9:15-18 also shows, to me at least, that God will have mercy on who ever He wishes - atheists included.
The God I follow is merciful and loving and would not condemn good people.

Click to expand...

I would submit the observation that what someone infers from an epistle does not mean Christ himself taught that.

This was a verse that was also posted about unbelievers and their chance of Heaven.

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48

Great verse. The full teaching has the context I think we're looking for in order to answer from Jesus' teachings.

I infer that to say, anyone who isn't keen on hearing the word of God preached isn't judged by God. Jesus at that time delivering the good news. Because, and I believe this is where we have the key answer about those who deny Jesus, the only way to the Father as he said, is when we read John 12 say, "he who rejects me and doesn't receive my sayings has one who judges him. The word, (In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.") will judge that one who rejects the anointed in the last day.

That being said, what else does Jesus say about unbelievers. Because if it was a matter of being a good person Jesus wouldn't have had to die to make it a covenant sealed with Gods holy spirit. (I think we should recall the importance of actual seals on contracts back in Jesus time and before him according to Gods law.)
We could as I see it just be nice. Jesus wouldn't have had to die if he'd have just preached, ascended, and left us to carry on the altruistic message.

What causes us to die? Sin. What causes us to live eternally?

Therefore, if Jesus came to make a covenant about rejuvenation, rebirth, of the soul that is separated from God due to the trappings of this world that veil of sin imposes, how do those who are nice, as are all sinners, only needing to be nice? In order to go to Heaven? By God's choice.
When God sent his only begotten son to deliver his message about how to get to Heaven through sacrifice of the body consciousness that though nice is still dead in its sins. In other words removed from being united with the higher power that is the word above that of this world. One that says we are more.

Because it is that word that is at the core of those who don't believe in the word. If the word saves how does being nice save those who don't accept that holy word exists? How are they saved by something that they believe doesn't exist? That's their faith, belief. How conversely does something non-existent show mercy on those who chose to follow the rules set down by that word in John 12:47-48 ?


God made a rule. It doesn't apply if you don't believe in the God and by consequence its rules?
Then what was God's point in sending Jesus?
When the word tells us, besides he'll have mercy upon whom he will show mercy, that he called those whom are to be saved to him. We don't choose God in order to receive his Grace. He chooses us in order to bestow us with his Grace.

VanillaSunflowers said:

Annnnd, the other reply would potentially be if one were of a mind, one could ask the same thing to Frank.
But that would probably never happen.

Click to expand...

Dodge noted.

Wolfe said:

I don't know if they would go to heaven, I'm not the decider, God is the only one with the power to save.
But it just doesn't sound right for saint-like people who don't believe to go to hell.

My way of thinking is.
Before the time of Christ, and the gospels. Before the Bible, and before anyone could really hear of God (Some tribes today havn't heard of God). How would those people be judged? Most people like the think everyone in the old times were savages, eating peoples hearts and killing without sense. But I believe they were much like us, they had their depraved, evil people, as we have ours.
But they also had their great loving people, who would help someone in need. We wouldn't have grown as a species if this wasn't true.

My point being, how would the good people back then before the word of God. Who truly and honestly did good things, and hated to do bad things. How would they be judged?

Click to expand...

Well I referring to today, not several thousand of years ago before Christ death and coming back to life.

All I say is God knows the heart of all people, he knows their thoughts, their desires and sins. Only God can judge.

Before Jesus came to Earth it was the Jews who were God chosen people, and there were references in the Old testament that even there were were formerly pagan leaders who were not Jewish that turned to the Lord, even the city of Nineveh turned to the Lord after the preaching from Jonah.

After Jesus being on earth the Jewish nation rejected Jesus Christ as the messiah that was promised to them. Since then the Lord wants all people everywhere have Lord Jesus Christ in their life. Through that people can have eternal life.

Anyway even in regions that are out of reach of Christian missionaries there are people that have dreams and visions of Jesus Christ and have turned to him.

In a word - no. A common misconception is that we get to heaven by being "good" and go to hell for being bad. The Bible teaches us that through the Law comes only condemnation and that by deeds of the Law shall no flesh be justified (Romans 3:20, Galatians 2:16). Since some might argue that these are referring to the ceremonial Law, Paul clearly includes the moral Law in the discussion when he refers to the slave woman (the Law) as Sinai (where the ten commandments were given - see Galatians 4).

Instead, we find that those who are are condemned are condemned, not on the basis of works, but because they have rejected the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18).

Some of the arguments for limited atonement have confused this issue by arguing that an unlimited atonement would necessarily lead to universal salvation, or that sending a person to hell for sins paid for by Christ (1 John 2:2) would be demanding a double-payment for sin. The issue is not one of a double payment, but one of rejecting the merciful offer extended in the person of Christ.

So in a word; no - a morally upright (by worldly standards) atheist will not go to heaven, because entrance into heaven is not predicated on our own moral uprightness, which is feeble in comparison with God's standard, but on our apprehending the righteousness of Christ by trusting in Him and Him alone for salvation.

Wolfe said:

The pope seems to think so
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/12/pope_francis_offers_hope_to_fa.html

Click to expand...

I not catholic but the that post was misquoted by the Pope:http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/page1.html

Armoured said:

Dodge noted.

Click to expand...

Nah,there was no dodge. I was very clear. More than once.

And I prefer Chevy. Classics are a big plus.

dude99 said:

I not catholic but the that post was misquoted by the Pope:http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/page1.html

Click to expand...

What he really meant is what he first said.

Wolfe said:

...And if your heart is good, I believe God will judge you on it.
Mainly because how could people before the time of the Bible, be saved?

Click to expand...

I think that is why Bible says:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

Also, those who died before Jesus, maybe have heard the message in grave, because:

Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
John 5:25

I say yes, if they ofcourse change their ways. We started out as somewhat atheists, doing what we wanted and as we pleased.

Matthew 10:37-40
"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
(Parallel Verse) John 12:44-46
"Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness."
Also in John 14:6-7
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."

So, with these things said, it should be observed that without faith, we will abide in darkness, and shall not have the light.

Simple, no, an Atheist will not enter Heaven.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

The Pope is completely wrong and is very far from the truth.

LionL said:

would not condemn good people.

Click to expand...

Except that no such person has ever existed:

Romans 3:10-12 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; (11) no one understands; no one seeks for God. (12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Wolfe said:

before anyone could really hear of God (Some tribes today havn't heard of God). How would those people be judged?

Click to expand...

No one goes to Hell for not hearing about God. They go to Hell because of their sins against God.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Wolfe said:

My point being, how would the good people back then before the word of God. Who truly and honestly did good things, and hated to do bad things. How would they be judged?

Click to expand...

As mentioned in prior post, no such person exists. No one is good, no, not one. (Romans 3:10-12)

LionL said:

Romans 2:12-16 implies that conscience, rather than religious belief, is enough to save someone (though you may interpret it as only applying to those who follow Christ who are not Jews).
Romans 9:15-18 also shows, to me at least, that God will have mercy on who ever He wishes - atheists included.
The God I follow is merciful and loving and would not condemn good people.

Click to expand...

The law does not save for that is not nor has it ever been its purpose. The Torah exists to show man HOW to love both G-d and his fellow man.

Salvation occurs BY FAITH. Gen 15 Abraham believed G-d and it was credited to him as righteousness.

You err in your understanding of the context in which Paul is speaking in Romans. You see, it is only by G-d hand that we can even accept the message of salvation. This is what paul is speaking about. If you reject Messiah, YOU ARE DOOMED. You can not reject Messiah and be saved....

I am the way, the truth and the life, NO one comes to the Father BUT BY ME... Yeshua

Basil the Great said:

if someone truly lives a life of love and service to their fellow man, especially the less fortunate.

Click to expand...

That is not the way to Heaven friend.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Romans 3:20-25 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (21) But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— (22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: (23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, (25) whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Hummmmmmm?????????
I sort of think that if an atheist died and found he/she was
about to go to either place said person would cease being an
atheist pronto.
That said and I believe God is just, fair and merciful, then the former
atheist might be afforded an opportunity to enter whatever
paradise there is. If there is one.
Just my 2 cents worth.

If someone blatantly rejects God I don't see how this person can enter the Kingdom by flesh alone. For it says flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of God and an atheist is nothing more than that.

Wolfe said:

I don't know if they would go to heaven, I'm not the decider, God is the only one with the power to save.
But it just doesn't sound right for saint-like people who don't believe to go to hell.

My way of thinking is.
Before the time of Christ, and the gospels. Before the Bible, and before anyone could really hear of God (Some tribes today haven't heard of God). How would those people be judged? Most people like the think everyone in the old times were savages, eating people's hearts and killing without sense. But I believe they were much like us, they had their depraved, evil people, as we have ours.
But they also had their great loving people, who would help someone in need. We wouldn't have grown as a species if this wasn't true.

My point being, how would the good people back then before the word of God. Who truly and honestly did good things, and hated to do bad things. How would they be judged?

Click to expand...

Now you open the proverbial can of worms.
Ask a more basic question. Why are we here?
G-d in his word declares that he is HOLY that in him there is no sin or malice..... So, how is it that a loving, perfect G-d would allow those who have never heard of him, heard of Yeshua (messiah) never heard of the bible, the gospel or anything like that, be condemned? Hos is that just, loving and perfect???
The answer is alluded to in scripture. In short, why was mankind created in this freak show? A place fraught with sin, disease, corruption and death?
Revelation 12: 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.
And again we see it in Reve 12: 7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
So what can we glean from this? Well, there was a war and any war against G-d is REBELLION. Where were these "angles" cast down to? THE EARTH. No some try and teach that these angles are demon's and some of may be. BUT what is key to understand is that the Fall of man in Genesis and this event in Revelation 12 ARE THE SAME.
The physical is a TYPE of the spiritual. We hear right after this it proclaimed that: 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.
It explains so much..... It explains why man is BORN at war with G-d it explains why we are born with a rebellious nature. It explains why you were born where and when you were born. Depending on your role in the rebellion in heaven determined where and when you were born. After all being born at a random time and circumstance is not FAIR nor is it JUST.
G-d gave us over to our rebelliousness and in his infinite, unmeasurable mercy he provide a way back.
Think about it... any other answer puts G-d in the position of creating man and woman who were without sin in a postion where they are assured to eventually fail. That is perversion not love.... however, if we took part in a heavenly rebellion and he offered a way by which relationship could be restored that is mercy.